The SMG has been found

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Go Draslites!

Lets see... so you need an astrophysics degree, and how many years of military science training and complex ballistics to design roleplaying games?

Science Fantasy is bad because?

Guns and bullets that use a chemical reaction will be in use for as long as warfare dictates. If someone made a true laser rifle tomorrow, that did energy damage, took no bullets, had no logistics of ammunition or any of the other changes that such a weapon would introduce, it would change the game. Militaries of the world would be lining up around the block.

There eventually would be some well informed Laser specialists that would also one day be all: "Fusion guns? impossible! Such a weapon wil never take the place of Lasers on the modern battlefield!"

If i'm going to run characters that are going to get on ships and go out into space, There should be the freedom to move enough to allow for aliens to have frickin square bullets for all we know. We haven't left our solar system as a species yet.

I applaud mongoose's efforts to open up the Traveller rules to those that want to use imagination, instead of opinion-driven tradition to drive thier game. They know the secret.

In 1997-8 ish, our group used to play a merger game of Snapshot and Necromunda, with pirate boarding gangs vs. patrol officers on starships. Played that all summer along with a Solomani Intel CT game, and a TNE Reconstruction/Rediscovery game.

Someone should really determine what the "Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future" means on the cover of CT, because there seems to be some confusion. It seems to be more specific, and it seems to make people mad when its not.

 

[tbeard1999]

Go Draslites!

Lets see... so you need an astrophysics degree, and how many years of military science training and complex ballistics to design roleplaying games?

Straw man...and not a very good one at that.

The basics of gun performance are widely understood and can be easily found. There is no excuse for a game designer not to learn at least a *little* about the subject. Especially if he's writing Mercenary.

So yes, I expect the author of a military supplement to have a minimal grasp of military tech. Narrow minded of me, I know, but I'm uncompromising in such matters.

Science Fantasy is bad because?

No one said it was bad. It just ain't Traveller.

Although I do think that plagiarizing WH40K is particularly lame.

Guns and bullets that use a chemical reaction will be in use for as long as warfare dictates. If someone made a true laser rifle tomorrow, that did energy damage, took no bullets, had no logistics of ammunition or any of the other changes that such a weapon would introduce, it would change the game. Militaries of the world would be lining up around the block.

And this leads to sooper kewl magnetic Frisbee guns how?

I applaud mongoose's efforts to open up the Traveller rules to those that want to use imagination, instead of opinion-driven tradition to drive thier game. They know the secret.

<shakes head>

I don't really see the genius there. Nor do I see how much useful can come from mixing ignorance of the topic, ignorance of the source material, bad writing, nonexistent editing, and indiscriminate plagiarism.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

If you guys want to create an illogical, "anything goes" SFRPG, filled with shuriken catapults, space elves, light sabers, dustbuster phasers, etc., then have at it. But calling it "Traveller" seems dishonest to me. For some 30+ years, "Traveller" has meant a relatively hard sci-fi RPG. If you're gonna deviate this dramatically, then I think you either call it something besides Traveller or admit on the cover that Traveller has been "reimagined".

But if you guys are gonna call it "Traveller", then I think it's fair to criticize serious deviations from the RPGs that have been called "Traveller" for the last 30 years.

I try to stay out of this, but I do agree. It's not as if Mongoose Traveller is like Basic Roleplaying. It is not a generic, grabbag ruleset designed to power all sorts of different scifi iterations. Rather, it is itself such an iteration. Says it right on the tin.

So, what idiosyncrasies the game may possess should be Traveller idiosyncrasies, not WH40K idiosyncrasies. I'd sign up for playing either Traveller or Dark Heresy any day. But not for a mix of the two.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

This game certainly has one of the most strangest fanbases. It's a real testimonial to how good Miller's original was. Wow.

Straw man. Really.

 

[mike wightman]

Go Draslites!

Ok, they are cool too

Lets see... so you need an astrophysics degree, and how many years of military science training and complex ballistics to design roleplaying games?

No, but it would be nice if they opened even a basic book on the subject to get some background knowledge before starting - green stars in Alternity anyone?

Science Fantasy is bad because?

It isn't, it just isn't Traveller.

Except there are already so many sci-fantasy elements in Traveller, so I'll concede that one.

Hard sci-fi is allowed 1, maybe 2, breacks with accepted physics - Traveller has a lot more than that . T2300 is a hard sci-fi game, Traveller is closer to sci-fantasy.

Guns and bullets that use a chemical reaction will be in use for as long as warfare dictates. If someone made a true laser rifle tomorrow, that did energy damage, took no bullets, had no logistics of ammunition or any of the other changes that such a weapon would introduce, it would change the game. Militaries of the world would be lining up around the block.

And said laser weapons wouldn't look anything like hollywood predicts...

There eventually would be some well informed Laser specialists that would also one day be all: "Fusion guns? impossible! Such a weapon wil never take the place of Lasers on the modern battlefield!"

Very true.

If i'm going to run characters that are going to get on ships and go out into space, There should be the freedom to move enough to allow for aliens to have frickin square bullets for all we know. We haven't left our solar system as a species yet.

Square bullets won't work, sorry. Laws of physics and all that.

I applaud mongoose's efforts to open up the Traveller rules to those that want to use imagination, instead of opinion-driven tradition to drive thier game. They know the secret.

The secret of making money?

 

[veltyen]

Square bullets won't work, sorry. Laws of physics and all that.

Apologies for being pedantic, and for that matter dragging the thread back onto topic, but one of the first SMG's (well, more a Support weapon, but a very early version of an automatic weapon) used square bullets.

It also had round bullets for firing at christians, the square bullets were reserved for muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_Gun

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

My great greatgrandfather would also load old nails and shot and whatever into his bluderbuss and gave the crows a quick funeral.

This is more of that "Simulationist vs. Gamist" stuff, I reckon. Sci Fi has many genres, and many people fanatically loyal. One thing Traveller and sci fi in general shows, is that things like "impossible" or "wouldn't happen" or even "laws of physics" have a dubious place. There such a thing as suspension of disbelief, especially if we're talking about the apparently Obligatory Traveller Universe setting.

 

[Jamus]

So, what idiosyncrasies the game may possess should be Traveller idiosyncrasies, not WH40K idiosyncrasies. I'd sign up for playing either Traveller or Dark Heresy any day. But not for a mix of the two.

What if a person wanted to play a Dark Heresy game but doesnt like the d10 system used by that game? Is it not admirable that I can use MgT to play a traveller game using the dark heresy background setting? I have never liked any system more than the basic traveller rules for simulating modern/sci-fi games and of the traveller systems I am a self proclaimed MgT fan. I would and have considered using MgT for a rehashed twilight 2000 game or even a MgT2300.

You may not use or want shurikats in YTU but that doesnt mean I have no use for them in what ever game I am using the superior MgT rules system to run.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

Do you have a particular reason for reviving this contentious thread a month after it passed away?

 

[Jamus]

I think my last post is self explanatory.

 

[atpollard]

What if a person wanted to play a Dark Heresy game but doesnt like the d10 system used by that game? Is it not admirable that I can use MgT to play a traveller game using the dark heresy background setting? I have never liked any system more than the basic traveller rules for simulating modern/sci-fi games and of the traveller systems I am a self proclaimed MgT fan. I would and have considered using MgT for a rehashed twilight 2000 game or even a MgT2300.

You may not use or want shurikats in YTU but that doesnt mean I have no use for them in what ever game I am using the superior MgT rules system to run.

By extension of this logic, should MGT not also include rules for spellcasting wizards, cyberpunk netrunning, steampunk deamonslayers and Nepoleanic equipment so that the one core Traveller rule book can be used as a GURPS-like machine to run any game setting or combination of settings?

[although this still does not find the missing SMG - per the thread title.]

 

[Allensh]

By extension of this logic, should MGT not also include rules for spellcasting wizards, cyberpunk netrunning, steampunk deamonslayers and Nepoleanic equipment so that the one core Traveller rule book can be used as a GURPS-like machine to run any game setting or combination of settings?

[although this still does not find the missing SMG - per the thread title.]

I would hope that MGT limits itself to science fiction settings...but then again I suppose it wouldn't be that bad to have cyberpunk/steampunk/fantasy elements in certain settings for the rules..look at all the Wanderer posts elsewhere, for example; there's obviously some interest in this. Myself. I'll leave the fantasy stuff to other games and use Traveller as my system for sci-fi.

and yes, this has nothing to do with SMGs per se.

Allen

 

[Plankowner]

Under the OGL rules, couldn't someone else do that?

You want to play a fantasy game using the Traveller ruleset? Use the OGL, come up with a magic system, new careers (or adapt the existing ones) and have fun!

Same for Steampunk, Cyberpunk or just about any other style of play. The OGL opens up all that if someone wants to do it.

Right now Mongoose seems to be concentrating on Sci Fi for Traveller, with Babylon 5 and Star Ship Troopers, but that doesn't limit anyone else.

 

[Jamus]

By extension of this logic, should MGT not also include rules for spellcasting wizards, cyberpunk netrunning, steampunk deamonslayers and Nepoleanic equipment so that the one core Traveller rule book can be used as a GURPS-like machine to run any game setting or combination of settings?

[although this still does not find the missing SMG - per the thread title.]

why not? the 1700 type gear may be something travellers run into on some back water world in a standard traveller game. nothing new with that. fantasy traveller is not my thing and I made a point of saying that I like traveller for modern/sci-fi/sci-fantasy settings. for fantasy I like C&C or D&D4e but really how sci-fi are psionics? it could be argued that psionics are as much fantasy as spell casting.

 

[tbeard1999]

why not? the 1700 type gear may be something travellers run into on some back water world in a standard traveller game. nothing new with that. fantasy traveller is not my thing and I made a point of saying that I like traveller for modern/sci-fi/sci-fantasy settings. for fantasy I like C&C or D&D4e but really how sci-fi are psionics? it could be argued that psionics are as much fantasy as spell casting.

But wouldn't you agree that the inclusion of such stuff as official material would not be faithful to the "Traveller" setting?

 

[Jamus]

But wouldn't you agree that the inclusion of such stuff as official material would not be faithful to the "Traveller" setting?

Yes I would agree. I am going to repeat who ever it was and say that when mongoose adds freaky stuff like the shuricat to a book the weapon entry should be clearly labeled as non-canon/what have you so that the more traditional members of our community can skim past and on to the more OTU material.