The Times, They Are A-Changin'

[Supplement Four]

My warning to you was perhaps not overly polite, but neither was it insulting. It was simply direct, with a warning of further action should your comment cause problems. That was it.

Not really. Telling me that you're going to "Infract the (word deleted at CotI member's request) out of me" is pretty insulting. And, as I told you, I'm not going to put up with that.

Yet you continue to bang away at this.

Far Trader invited us to air problems with the board, discuss them, and try to make a better board for the new era.

"Maybe we need a new thread for this New Era. A place to take suggestions for new ideas and directions. Though I suppose this thread has the right title for that, so feel free to drop suggestions here until then."

What you call "banging away at this" is what I call discussing the issue.

As for you not get Warnings on other boards, really, I have no information on that. Here, however, you have four pages of Warnings, Infractions, and Bans. From a variety of Moderators. The four of us are very different in our approaches, by the way, yet we all see problems with many of your posts.

Yep, and many of them are like the one Far Trader gave me above.

You honestly believe that one needed a Warning?

Get this straight. YOU WERE WRONG. You violated the rule about politics outside of the pit, and got a warning for it.

Well, not quite. Andrew must have seen something wrong with your Warning you gave me over that, or he wouldn't have changed the rule.

Consider this an official policy change:

Jokes are allowed.

Trying to sneak politics in disguised as jokes, or responding with a political comment, is still banned.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Yes, especially when I think its a serious issue that needs to be discussed and fixed...and not swept under the carpet under the guise of a "dead horse".

I'm going to be honest with you, I've read through this whole thread and I've seen several people try to explain it to you. I think you are getting upset over something that drops off your record after a week. One week - then POOF it's gone and forgotten. The last time I got a Warning, I shrugged and went and read something else. It's not that big of a deal. Say 'whatever' and move on. Holding on to this much animosity is bad for your health. I'm not kidding. I know it feels important, but which is more important - talking about this or talking about Traveller? It's good that you care, but it's not good if you care too much.

 

[aramis]

Don't forget that Andrew just made a policy change and said jokes are fine.

and reiterated explicitly in big bold letters (which, by the tone of your post, you seem to be ignoring) that political or religious jokes are still forbidden.

You were in the wrong. Accept it, learn from it, and move on.

Of course, and I hate to sound this way, if you can't accept the moderation here, move on meand "don't come here"...

As For RPGnet
The moderation over there is decried just as much as this place.

 

[Ishmael]

I think the site needs a redesign .
45 or so forums, some of which are not available to casual users
many are rarely active
some are membership only, so why show them unless the user is a member of them?
important information ( like forum rules ) are relatively hidden.... sticky a link to them to the top of of every subject even

Unless its just me, newcomers MUST register and log in to ever take a look to see if this place is somewhere they'd like to hang out.
This encourages the perception that this forum is not 'open' to new members and/or ideas
At least let 'guests' read posts even if they can't reply or post without registering.
And have the rules prominent at registration...not how it is now ( just checked...the link "here" to access the rules just goes to the main discussion index page )

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm going to be honest with you, I've read through this whole thread and I've seen several people try to explain it to you. I think you are getting upset over something that drops off your record after a week. One week - then POOF it's gone and forgotten. The last time I got a Warning, I shrugged and went and read something else. It's not that big of a deal. Say 'whatever' and move on. Holding on to this much animosity is bad for your health. I'm not kidding. I know it feels important, but which is more important - talking about this or talking about Traveller? It's good that you care, but it's not good if you care too much.

I'm just trying to make the board a better place to visit.

There is a problem with the modding system on this board.



1 - The mods have too much power. There's no checks and balances.

I hope that this will be remedied by Andrew acting as the appeals and Supreme Court.


2 - The Warning is too confrontational. The CotI member that writes the offending post insults someone. Then, they, themselves are insulted back with the Warning and mods telling them that they're going to "Infract the hell out of them".

All that does is make the CotI member more upset. It's not a good way to influence compliance. It is a great way to get someone to argue with you.

I'd like to see the Warning changed to less confrontational language, and I'd like a rein put on mods who think they're not escalating the situation with the language they use when sending somebody a Warning.



Point number 1 seems to have an answer. If Point number 2 can be rectified, then it will be better for the entire board.

 

[Supplement Four]

and reiterated explicitly in big bold letters (which, by the tone of your post, you seem to be ignoring) that political or religious jokes are still forbidden.

You were in the wrong. Accept it, learn from it, and move on.

Andrew's policy change states that political jokes are fine--they just can't be politics disguised as jokes. That's what he said.

I made it clear that what I said was a joke with the smileys and the quotation marks--and the point that I was against the Pit returning.

So, no, I wasn't wrong. Not under Andrew's definition.

 

[HG_B]

Wagons circle, site rep amongst trav community remains the same. Sad.

 

[Supplement Four]

Wagons circle, site rep amongst trav community remains the same. Sad.

To be honest, I do now feel like they're ganging up on me.

We're supposed to be discussing changes that would make the site better. What I'm seeing is that the mods want to keep it the same.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

If you want CotI to live and grow, there has to be tolerance on both sides of the fence.

Absolutely agree. I'll do what I can on my side, if people give me a chance.

 

[Supplement Four]

Absolutely agree. I'll do what I can on my side, if people give me a chance.

I've actually got some faith in you. I'll give you a chance.

 

[HG_B]

To be honest, I do now feel like they're ganging up on me.

We're supposed to be discussing changes that would make the site better. What I'm seeing is that the mods want to keep it the same.

The reaction you are seeing is the epitaph of this site. I'm shocked that Marc would be involved with this type of situation. But, facts are facts. Sad.

 

[Supplement Four]

The reaction you are seeing is the epitaph of this site. I'm shocked that Marc would be involved with this type of situation. But, facts are facts. Sad.

The mods are still acting the way they've always have. Let's give Andrew a chance and see if he can't improve this place a bit.

I know I'm willing to work with him.

 

[travlar]

Hmm. It seems to me that a large part of the problem here is a difference in how S4 and the mods see a warning. The mods (from what I can see) think of a warning as, well, a warning. A statement that they think your post needs changing. As something along the line of S4's polite PM idea. S4, on the other hand, takes it as something more. Perhaps as a suggestion that there was some sort of malice behind the action the warning was for. Maybe something else. But something more, anyway.

It seems to me that if a third level, a caution, can be added, that doing so would be the best. If not, however, there's going to need to be a consensus about what warnings mean. Unfortunately, since, as has been repeatedly pointed out, giving a warning copies it to all the other mods, and a PM doesn't, that this consensus will have to be closer to what the mods think than what S4 thinks.

Also, S4, I think you may just have to accept that the mods have a different idea of what some of the rules mean than you do. Perhaps instead of arguing about it, you need to just learn what the interpretations of the rules are. Now that Andrew is in charge, there should just be one person's interpretation of the rules to matter, which should make things easier.

 

[HG_B]

The mods are still acting the way they've always have. Let's give Andrew a chance and see if he can't improve this place a bit.

I know I'm willing to work with him.

At this point, it is on Marc's shoulders. He has to decide what kind of public face he wants Traveller to have. One is known by their friends and confidants. I hope PR is one of his strengths ...

 

[Spinward Scout]

I'm just trying to make the board a better place to visit.

And that's great!

There is a problem with the modding system on this board.

1 - The mods have too much power. There's no checks and balances.

You know you can hit 'Report Post' on something a Mod has typed, right? So... lodge a formal complaint by reporting the offender. If you feel insulted in a post, make a formal report. I can't say I haven't rolled my eyes about things the Mods have done.

I hope that this will be remedied by Andrew acting as the appeals and Supreme Court.

I'm not sure how that will work. Probably like when issues used to be escalated to Hunter.

2 - The Warning is too confrontational. The CotI member that writes the offending post insults someone. Then, they, themselves are insulted back with the Warning and mods telling them that they're going to "Infract the hell out of them".

All that does is make the CotI member more upset. It's not a good way to influence compliance. It is a great way to get someone to argue with you.

The Mods are just as human as you and I and also can have emotional outbursts. As I said, click the Report Post if you feel what someone did was inappropriate. Make it formal.

I'd like to see the Warning changed to less confrontational language, and I'd like a rein put on mods who think they're not escalating the situation with the language they use when sending somebody a Warning.

Yes, there could be better ways to handle some situations. Sometimes it's better just to post your opinion and move on to something else to let the information trickle and be processed.

All in all, I think continuing to argue about it isn't going to solve anything. You've stated your opinions. And I hope you'll be listened to and not just dismissed out of hand. There's nothing really you can do but wait.

 

[Sylvre Phire]

As For RPGnet
The moderation over there is decried just as much as this place.

Mostly by those who have illegitimate gripes and axes to grind against the modsquad's noses. In the case of CotI we have legitimate issues which people on the mod squad aren't willing to discuss let alone remedy. :nonono:

And yes, Aramis, I'm looking at you.

Dale

 

[travlar]

Mostly by those who have illegitimate gripes and axes to grind against the modsquad's noses. In the case of CotI we have legitimate issues which people on the mod squad aren't willing to discuss let alone remedy. :nonono:

And yes, Aramis, I'm looking at you.

Dale

Err... do you realize that the people "who have illegitimate gripes and axes to grind against the modsquad's noses" probably think their complaints are legitimate? Just like you think yours are? How do you actually know for sure that yours aren't "illegitimate gripes and axes to grind against the modsquad's noses"? Personally, I think you are being over-the-top about all this, and that you need to calm down. But, that's me. Maybe it's just that I haven't seen what you've seen. But I'm willing to accept that possibility. Are you?

 

[Rigel Stardin]

I'm really new here (lost my orginal pasword after joining), I just got on the board a less than a month ago. I was going to stay out of this post because I don't know the community that well. However I feel I must say this.

Moderators have a hard job to begin with, they must enforce policies that the community may or may not like in order to keep the forum from becoming one gaint flame war. With That said, I also know they are only human and tend to make mistakes as we all do. They often offend someone without knowing it (without the visual cues of a face to face meeting) word seem harsher than they actually appear because they are litteral translation of a person thoughts. They may not have intended it too sound that way but it does happen. That is why some of these discussion turn ugly.

A joke can be taken the wrong way because people don't see the hint of humor in the eyes of the person telling. Or read a deeper meaning into it depending on their views. The Internet is impersonal in that respect.

Feeling strongly about an issue show you care about the post you are responding to but people have to realize not everyone share the same opinion. Tolerance is the key that we must all share in a forum like this. I know of at least three countries involved in this forum and culture clashes are going to happen. So we must watch how we word our thoughts and ideas so they don't offend someone else.

I'm not making excuses for bad behavior. Everyone here knows when someone has over stepped the line, this post is more about those comments and post that are on the razor edge. Our feeling tend to get the better of us sometimes and allowances must be made...

 

[Supplement Four]

Tell me, do you think arguing with several Mods about it is making the board any more friendly?

I'm discussing what needs to be changed on this board to make it a better place. The mods seem to be looking to keep things the way they are.

Obviously, we have problems here. I'm not the only one who feels the way I do. I've known many who've quit the board just because of the treatment they've received from the mods here.

I'm genuinely trying to make the place a better place for all of us.

You know you can hit 'Report Post' on something a Mod has typed, right? So... lodge a formal complaint by reporting the offender.

In the past, that never worked. I tried it several times. You either get no answer, or you get all the mods scratching each others backs, backing each other up (like what you see in this thread).

This is why I'm hopeful that the Andrew appeal process will be fair and just.

Heck, remember, we didn't even have that until I starting talking about it on this thread.

So, if nothing else comes from my discussion on this thread, that's one positive thing.

I'm not sure how that will work. Probably like when issues used to be escalated to Hunter.

I liked Hunter, but he was an absentee landlord. His disappearance was the reason the mods have too much power. There was no one to tell them, "No, that's not right...".

I rememember one time, though, when he was here, that Aramis slapped me with a Warning, and then Hunter jumped all over him publicly for doing the wrong thing.

I don't know if it should have been public, but it sure let me know that, at that time, that Hunter had a sense of fairness.

All in all, I think continuing to argue about it isn't going to solve anything. You've stated your opinions. And I hope you'll be listened to and not just dismissed out of hand. There's nothing really you can do but wait.

I hope I'm able to help make this forum a better place, too.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I've actually got some faith in you. I'll give you a chance.

Thank you.

A good start (and this applies to everyone) would be to stop dragging up old arguments. We'll never move on otherwise.

We've all made mistakes in the past. I have no doubt we'll make more in the future. But let's at least give each other a chance to change.