So, on our continuing adventure:
Spoiler:
The Traveller Adventure
- Thread starter Spartan159
- Start date
Supplement Four
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Don't forget the gravity on Pysadi. At 0.5G, the crew of the Harrier are supermen compared to the locals.
I think I saw a JTAS article on this when I was skimming thorough them the other day--how much farther a character can jump, for example.
I think I saw a JTAS article on this when I was skimming thorough them the other day--how much farther a character can jump, for example.
I need to look that up. I was thinking about this when I was looking at what a wagon load was. For what it's worth a wagon in MgT1's civilian vehicles carries up to .667 Td, with a mass of 935 kg. Now to figure out what burden beasts they have
I was initially going to go with Kian's but then I saw they would have to have special filter masks.To be honest, I rarely if ever bothered with gravity differences on "shirtsleeve"(tm) worlds. It was an ease of play decision more than anything else.
1 - "Shirtsleeve" means you're able to walk around with minimal support equipment. Think think and/or tainted atmospheres.
Timerover51
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I need to look that up. I was thinking about this when I was looking at what a wagon load was. For what it's worth a wagon in MgT1's civilian vehicles carries up to .667 Td, with a mass of 935 kg. Now to figure out what burden beasts they have
Do not assume that any local domesticated animals are going to haul massive loads. Their musculature is going to be based on 0.5 gravity, and their body is apt to be built differently as a result. Speculation with respect to low-G animals that I have seen makes them tall and slender, with not a lot of muscle mass. I put that in for what it is worth.
For haulage, figure the felt planetary weight, then take 20% of that as net carrying capacity as a pack animal. For cartage, figure that in a light cart that an animal can can haul for a reasonable distance during a day about 4 to 5 times as much as it can pack. That does assume that you can hook a cart to it.
You might want to also remember that you cannot allow planetary air into your ship, so you are going to have to have some way of making sure your life support filters can handle the atmosphere contaminant. Loading cargo is going to be a big headache.
Hmm, I might go with the Kian after all then. They are native to Prilissa (SM 3035) which IMTU I calculate as having 1.147G. (density 1.02 molten core, Mass 1.452) unless my math was off.
With regards to ship's atmosphere, the cargo-bay is airlocked off from the rest of the ship.
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Timerover51
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I would recommend using local transport animals, accustomed to the gravity. Using animals from a higher gravity planet is going to cause problems with the imported animal's reflexes and motion pattern.
Then I'm back to having to create something new as there was never any mention of just what was pulling those wagons.
It's fairly safe to assume either some form of equine or bovine... as those likely would have been transplanted along with the hominins... or a local analogue to same.
I went with local analog, calling it an Orik. Rolled it up using MgT1e supplement 11, animal encounters modified a bit for 2e. The values for Str Dex and End confuse me a bit, though, not sure how to use them. Should animals get a multiplier on how much burden they can take? Do I use the stats for combat the same as characters?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
My apologies for throwing you a curve without supporting it with an actual beast of burden. You might actually need to consider two, depending on how deeply into Pysadi you get. The southern portion of the main continent actually is in contact with the southern ice cap, which means the area to the south is going to be under a fairly cold climate. The northern area is likely to have what I would call comfortable summers and short, not to cold winters. I suspect a somewhat eccentric orbit with the planet at it greatest distance from the sun during the southern winter, which is long, and the south having a short, hot summer when the planet is closest to the sun
for the south, I would think of something on the order of a lighter-built musk ox or yak, but with more hair, to compensate for a lower muscle mass in the lower gravity. Note, that will mean less meat per carcass if used also for food.
For the north, for variety, you might want to think of something like the eland, which probably could be domesticated if someone really worked at it.
To be honest, I would not worry about what combat capabilities the animals might have, unless you want to have a full background for them. As for what it takes to damage them, come up with a body mass, divide by about 20, and figure that much damage in one shot is needed to drop the animal in its tracks. I was working on animal damage in another thread that I will need to find again.
for the south, I would think of something on the order of a lighter-built musk ox or yak, but with more hair, to compensate for a lower muscle mass in the lower gravity. Note, that will mean less meat per carcass if used also for food.
For the north, for variety, you might want to think of something like the eland, which probably could be domesticated if someone really worked at it.
To be honest, I would not worry about what combat capabilities the animals might have, unless you want to have a full background for them. As for what it takes to damage them, come up with a body mass, divide by about 20, and figure that much damage in one shot is needed to drop the animal in its tracks. I was working on animal damage in another thread that I will need to find again.
Ah, no biggie. Actually, I envisioned the farm as north of Itzeny. The adventure states it is 20km out, and a forest 20km from the farm and 30km from the town. Which now that I take a closer look at on the map in the MgT version has a mountain ridge going just north of the town. Heh, that suggests a pass between the farm and town, can't just slide by without being seen. Never heard of the eland before but, google is my friend. Sometimes. Eh, that looks good to me, just add an extra tail 
As it happens I am doing some detail on creatures both for future use and as an exercise in understanding them. The stats confuse me as I can get earthworms with an endurance of 13?!? I'm sure it's all relative, I gave them 1 hit but I wonder how to use the stats all the same. Also, I've arbitrarily decided that insects get their size divided by a factor of 10,000 so that it ranges between 0.1g and 1kg.
The Orik I came up with I envisioned as about 800kg mass, draft horse size. MgT Stats:
Orik - Mammal, Herbivore, Grazer - Quirk: Swift
Terrain: Plains,
Movement: Walk 24 <-- unsure on this
Size: 800kg, Str 21 (+5), Dex 12 (+2), End 21 (+5), Int 1 (-2), Instinct: 12 (+2)
Weapon: Hooves/Thrasher, 3D Armor: Hide, 1 Hits: 40
Attack: 9+, Flee 7-, Initiative DM: -1, Large (+2 to hit)
Number Encountered: 3D
Skills: Athletics (Str) 4, Melee (Natural) 0, Recon 2, Survival 1
Thoughts?
As it happens I am doing some detail on creatures both for future use and as an exercise in understanding them. The stats confuse me as I can get earthworms with an endurance of 13?!? I'm sure it's all relative, I gave them 1 hit but I wonder how to use the stats all the same. Also, I've arbitrarily decided that insects get their size divided by a factor of 10,000 so that it ranges between 0.1g and 1kg.
The Orik I came up with I envisioned as about 800kg mass, draft horse size. MgT Stats:
Orik - Mammal, Herbivore, Grazer - Quirk: Swift
Terrain: Plains,
Movement: Walk 24 <-- unsure on this
Size: 800kg, Str 21 (+5), Dex 12 (+2), End 21 (+5), Int 1 (-2), Instinct: 12 (+2)
Weapon: Hooves/Thrasher, 3D Armor: Hide, 1 Hits: 40
Attack: 9+, Flee 7-, Initiative DM: -1, Large (+2 to hit)
Number Encountered: 3D
Skills: Athletics (Str) 4, Melee (Natural) 0, Recon 2, Survival 1
Thoughts?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Greetings, Spartan, I have been working on some ideas for this, and my brain is still crunchy away. I am not sure about working up some form of strength table continuum for all creatures, but more strength and endurance within the same creature species. If you figure that the typical historic transport animal was good for between 8 to 10 hours of work, then the endurance roll gives the number of hours the animal can work in its accustomed gravity. As for strength, if you assume a normal of between 7 and 9, then any roll over 9 would indicate the ability to carry or draw additional weight, at the rate of an additional 10 percent weight or an additional 40 percent draught.
You might want to look at some of my ideas in the following thread.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=35941
You might want to look at some of my ideas in the following thread.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=35941
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
On a different area, I have the GDW version of The Traveller Adventure, both in hard copy and digital format, which is what I am working off of. I do have the Mongoose Version as well in digital format. One thing in the GDW version is that none of the pictures showing Pysadi show anyone wearing filter masks, which does seem to be a bit odd.
Second, both books show Itzeny at the end of a spur line of about 1200 kilometers minimum. I do not how strongly you are enforcing a Tech Level of 4, but that puts Pysadi, according to The Traveller Book, at 1860 to 1900, what is commonly called the Age of Steam. After a 1200 kilometer plus, given that the terrain on both maps looks a tad rugged, any steam locomotive is going to need some maintenance, plus either a circular run of track to turn around or a turntable, most likely the circular run of track. I would be boosting the population of Itzeny from 200 to more like 2000, as you need track maintenance personnel for all of the track, plus some machine shop capability for on-side repairs, and siding yards for juggling rail cars for loading and unloading. Note, there is a strong tendency among rail clients to use rail cars for warehousing purposes until the cargo needs to be unloaded. You also need watering and fueling stations along the line of track for use by the railroad. Given the technology level, long distances between settlements, and very low population level in terms of people per square mile, the likely fuel is going to be wood.
Second, both books show Itzeny at the end of a spur line of about 1200 kilometers minimum. I do not how strongly you are enforcing a Tech Level of 4, but that puts Pysadi, according to The Traveller Book, at 1860 to 1900, what is commonly called the Age of Steam. After a 1200 kilometer plus, given that the terrain on both maps looks a tad rugged, any steam locomotive is going to need some maintenance, plus either a circular run of track to turn around or a turntable, most likely the circular run of track. I would be boosting the population of Itzeny from 200 to more like 2000, as you need track maintenance personnel for all of the track, plus some machine shop capability for on-side repairs, and siding yards for juggling rail cars for loading and unloading. Note, there is a strong tendency among rail clients to use rail cars for warehousing purposes until the cargo needs to be unloaded. You also need watering and fueling stations along the line of track for use by the railroad. Given the technology level, long distances between settlements, and very low population level in terms of people per square mile, the likely fuel is going to be wood.
OK, thanks. I was using MgT1e and it's supplement 11, Animal Encounters to create animals but I must admit I was dissatisfied somewhat with what I was coming up with. For an example, I was attempting to recreate the creature in the adventure and came up with the one I list at Beastiary for an example of what I am ending up with, granted that one was on the upper limit due to some high rolling.
Something weird about that, the book shows TL 4 and LL 7 while TravellerMap shows TL 5 and LL 8. Given that I altered the time frame to take place in 1100 instead of 1105 I could go with 4 on the verge of 5. Would that have allowed for diesel or diesel/electric? I suspect they would want whatever had the least impact on the environment and I do not have that knowledge. How close together would support stations need to be? Another thing I just thought of is how much off world technology would they be willing to import to maintain a clean ecology? I could see the loop easy enough, they already mention regular sidings for high priority trains to pass by.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Hmm, far as animal stats for work animals, I would figure
STR based on carrying/pulling capacity using the kg per STR point measure encumberance system (so way over human in many cases).
DEX on speed and strike/dodge accuracy
END based on surge and steady move capacity
I would also add damage for higher STR ratings. A T Rex bite is worse then a dog.
STR based on carrying/pulling capacity using the kg per STR point measure encumberance system (so way over human in many cases).
DEX on speed and strike/dodge accuracy
END based on surge and steady move capacity
I would also add damage for higher STR ratings. A T Rex bite is worse then a dog.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Hmm steam locomotive technology....
Well first, on the turning issue there are turntables, turning loops- and wyes.
Wood is the least power per dton on a tender, even though it's lighter then coal the tender would have to be bigger for longer trips. If wood is green and worse has sap it could do damage. Coal or oil were always more desirable fuels.
The main limits for steam engines were water, fuel, and a lot of regular maintenance. Several engine types eventually progressed to running several hundred miles and some even had scoops to pick up water on the fly without stopping.
However, for the steam era on average call it 100-200 miles between division points and locomotive swaps. A transcontinental railroad running in sparse areas however will tend to build bigger longer ranged engines.
Diesels ended up being preferable in large measure due to a lot less maintenance, configurable to different roles, modular matching power to tonnage, and ultimately longer range. They cost a lot more but payoff on the backend in operating costs and manpower.
There are such things as storage yards for loaded cars- more often though they are waiting for transshipment points (say sea to rail). Most yards are classification yards, for routing rather then storage.
The number of yards would be predicated on traffic patterns, interchanges with other railroads, number of spur lines, etc.
Well first, on the turning issue there are turntables, turning loops- and wyes.
Wood is the least power per dton on a tender, even though it's lighter then coal the tender would have to be bigger for longer trips. If wood is green and worse has sap it could do damage. Coal or oil were always more desirable fuels.
The main limits for steam engines were water, fuel, and a lot of regular maintenance. Several engine types eventually progressed to running several hundred miles and some even had scoops to pick up water on the fly without stopping.
However, for the steam era on average call it 100-200 miles between division points and locomotive swaps. A transcontinental railroad running in sparse areas however will tend to build bigger longer ranged engines.
Diesels ended up being preferable in large measure due to a lot less maintenance, configurable to different roles, modular matching power to tonnage, and ultimately longer range. They cost a lot more but payoff on the backend in operating costs and manpower.
There are such things as storage yards for loaded cars- more often though they are waiting for transshipment points (say sea to rail). Most yards are classification yards, for routing rather then storage.
The number of yards would be predicated on traffic patterns, interchanges with other railroads, number of spur lines, etc.
The system addresses Str to damage with a scale, 1 to 10 points of Str = 1D6, 11 to 20 = 2D6, etc. Type of natural weapon may increase the number of dice with higher rolls, a carnivore rolling a 10, 11, or 12 could add 3D6.
An 800kg critter gets 4D6 Str, 2D6 Dex, and 4D6 End, call it an average of Str 14, Dex 7, End 14. 28kg load seems kinda small to me for a draft animal. Maybe animals get a multiplier? Do Clydesdales have more than one horsepower?
On a side note, how massive is a T-Rex anyway? (Gonna google those now. :rofl
Tech level is a hard concept to wrap one's head around primarily because RAW version of TL isn't the same thing as the OTU's version of TL.
Apart from Red Zones, there's no such thing as a "Prime Directive" in the OTU. Local manufacturing on Pysadi may be limited to TL 5 or 6, but local knowledge is not. That can make for some big differences because knowledge is more than half the battle.
Take radios for example. Once you can draw wire, roughly TL 1, you can build crystal radio sets receivers. Not transmitters mind you, but receivers. There are many other examples of this where later TL knowledge can be used with earlier TL techniques to manufacture equipment seemingly too advanced.
Putting it another way, while the people of Pysadi may have limited tools and techniques, they are not stupid.
It could. More likely, however, such locos would and could be imported.
If using locally produced locos, Pysadi's rolling stock isn't going to resemble Buster Keaton's General or the Old 97. Pysadi is going to be able to employ knowledge from higher TLs to design and build their steam locos. Take water usage for example.
Our late TL4/early TL5 steam locos needed to take on water more often than fuel because the steam they used wasn't recycled. Railroads experimented with condensers to recycle water in steam locos about the same time diesels began supplanted steam. Pysadi should very well have condensing steam locos using higher energy density fuels to extend a train's "range" between stations.
Pysadi's trains are going to be "the same but different". Look at page 51 in TTA for example. Wearing her filter mask, Aunt Baraatsa is hawking howood souvenirs on the station platform and the waiting train's passenger car has sealed windows to keep out the atmospheric taint.
Rather than mindlessly import a historical example as has been suggested, you instead need to take the "idea" of a railroad and then "tweak" it to better fit the specifics of Pysadi.
That's a interesting point. The locals do worship Mother Pysadi, so they could very well be very ecologically conscious. Locos, even imported diesel/electric types, could use biofuels rather than fossil fuels.
As I noted above, if the steam locos are condensing types and use better fuels, stations needn't be as close as they were historically.
Again, yes. That fits very nicely with the local religion.
A loop is easy. Sidings and a turntable is easy. Whatever you decide.
Remember, rolling stock maintenance requirements, just like design, construction, and operation, are not going to carbon copies of Casey Jones or the Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe. It's the 57th Century, the people of Pysadi aren't stupid, and they've millennia of experiences on thousands of worlds from which to learn from.
