Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I think that I will go back to ignoring it, like I do the Virus.
The Why of the FTL Wave
- Thread starter robject
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Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I am not sure if this is supposed to be facetious or not.How about this for an explanation?
Picture(s) vs 1000s of Words (and all that) ...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That is total fanon - i know because I wrote it
It's one of my pet theories about secrets within the Third Imperium setting. The other is what actually caused the collapse of the Rule of Man banking system and what happened to the AI robots the Terrans built towards the end of the ISWs.
One day I will get it into an "official" supplement - fanon that becomes a vague recollection has a way of making it into books written by new authors
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Sadly, the EW is a classic case of accidentally totally destroying a valuable asset...namely Traveller 3rd Imperium. What with the "It happened" (TNE), the "Pretend it never happened" (T4) and the "It happened differently" (1248) threads this loss of control of the 3I timeline has never really been recovered from.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Third Imperium setting was destroyed by MegaTraveller and its rebellion setting. If you read between the lines of CT material, you will see the Third Imperium 1105 was set up to fail. It was corrupt, intolerant, oppressive, racist and authoritarian.
A terrible way for the Zhodani to "win".
When doing certain calcs for Marc (In re T5), he confirmed for me that J-space is explicitly a singular plane, not a 3d space.That is total fanon - i know because I wrote it
It's one of my pet theories about secrets within the Third Imperium setting. The other is what actually caused the collapse of the Rule of Man banking system and what happened to the AI robots the Terrans built towards the end of the ISWs.
One day I will get it into an "official" supplement - fanon that becomes a vague recollection has a way of making it into books written by new authors
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
That would explain why there's no Upward and Downward on galactic cartography.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
Sounds a lot like Plane Space ... a 2D region that "follows its own rules" which differ from 3D space.
In Crest of the Stars/Banner of the Stars, the way that Plane Space works is that there are fixed points in space where it is possible to transition from 3D normal space into 2D plane space (locations called "Sords" in the series) which amount to "choke points" for interstellar travel. Ships have to generate 3D space-time bubbles in order to not be crushed into 2D debris objects by plane space, but inside the protective bubble of their 3D space-time bubbles they maneuver around through plane space like normal. Interestingly enough, the maps of plane space shown in the series look suspiciously like hex maps.
In a Traveller-esque context mapped onto Crest/Banner of the Stars, this would mean that the "jump drive" simply allows a ship to transition from normal space to plane space (and survive in plane space while there) and then back again into normal space ... but you need to use the maneuver drive to "go places" while in plane space (or as Traveller would call it, jump space). So it's more a case of "find the already existing keyholes" (Sords) and then maneuver between them in plane space (or merge with other ships in plane space to fight/support them) ... rather than what Traveller does of "rip a hole in the fabric of reality and fall down the tunnel" arriving at your intended destination a week later without interacting with anything along the way. Plane space thus becomes more of a "hyper/sub space" method of travel rather than a "jump" per se.
Of course, having jump space be conceptualized as a 2D planar construct solves all kinds of form and formatting issues with presentation ... such as how to depict otherwise 3D locations in an explicitly 2D PAPER LBB format.
Doesn't seem to me that's really his question. It's more a meta story question of why they needed to introduce some galaxy annihilating construct in the first place, especially on top of the Rebellion, and Virus. I guess "good things come in threes" for assorted values of "good".
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 1K
The result is a kind of "swamp castle" building scenario.
The Rebellion didn't finish off the Third Imperium.
The Virus didn't finish off the Third Imperium.
The Empress Wave rolled over, crashed and burned the Third Imperium into the ground.
But the Fourth Imperium stood up!
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Empress Wave would have practically no effect on the Imperium since so few Imperial citizens are trained psions.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I suspect that the basic motivation was develop a new background so as to generate more sales of new products. A modified form of Academia's Publish or Perish.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The trick is to understand the size of the market, and not oversaturate it.
Unless it's to strangle competition, and that only works in the long term if the products are quality to begin with.
With Fantasy it's easy, since you can use it's assumed multi universe to introduce new milieus.
Unless it's to strangle competition, and that only works in the long term if the products are quality to begin with.
With Fantasy it's easy, since you can use it's assumed multi universe to introduce new milieus.
As I've said before -- and I'm pretty sure I'm neither alone nor first in saying this -- it simply wasn't necessary. If you want a broken Imperium, move your campaign to one of the eras in which it's broken. If you want one being rebuilt, set it a little later during a recovery from a prior mess. If you want Virus (and who wouldn't?
), have it come in from outside. If you want common psionics without Zhodani domination, set it before the Psionic Suppressions.You don't have to wreck the Golden Era Imperium to get these effects.
Indeed. But the "new background" could just as easily have been a different era in the old background. They wrote thousands of years of history -- why not use it?
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Answering myself: The writers were also players and referees, running characters and campaigns in-universe. New setting material was seen as "what happens next to make the setting the way we want it to become" rather than "when within our already-written timeline would the setting have been the way we'd like it to be?"
It wasn't until T4 (1996) that any new material looked back through the Traveller timeline for its "new" setting.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The setting had change built into it from day 1.
First off it was pretty obvious the Third Imperium was getting close to collapse, at least on the frontier.
Events were taking place that would change the setting as they unfolded.
All of what follows is from the first setting book, S:3, I've underlined stuff that interests me. I think this is a much more interesting setting than later re-writes and interpretations of the Third Imperium and the Spinward Marches:
First off it was pretty obvious the Third Imperium was getting close to collapse, at least on the frontier.
Events were taking place that would change the setting as they unfolded.
All of what follows is from the first setting book, S:3, I've underlined stuff that interests me. I think this is a much more interesting setting than later re-writes and interpretations of the Third Imperium and the Spinward Marches:
At the spinward edge, 120 parsecs from the original center of the Imperium,
the Marches represent one of the furthest extents of exploration and domination
by Imperial forces. Lying adjacent to territory of the Zhodani Consulate and
the Vargr Extents, this region is a site which has seen conflict and intrigue.
Exile Camp. A location committed to the containment of individuals guilty
(or presumed guilty) of political crimes of discontent. Governmental controls
are usually restricted to the retention of inmates, and a general oppression of
the population.
lmperial Prison. A penitentiary or rehabilitation center for those guilty of lmperial crimes.
lmperial Reservation. A location, usually very large, under lmperial jurisdiction and restricted to use only by members of the lmperial family, or those authorized by a member of the lmperial family.
lmperial Way Station. A base established for the repair, maintenance, and overhaul of lmperial equipment. It may include provisions for Army troop barracks, naval and scout ship overhauls, and intelligence operations
Imperium: The lrnperium is a strong interstellar government encompassing 281 subsectors and approximately 11,000 worlds. Approximately 1100 years old, it is the third human empire to control this area, the oldest, and the strongest. Nevertheless, it is under strong pressure from its neighboring interstellar governments, and does not have the strength nor the power which it once had
Much of the upper strata of Zhodani society are extensively trained in, and
commonly practice the Psionic Heresy
The lmperium has long maintained (since 556) a research station in the Retinae
system for the purposes of communications research. Accessed From Frenzie/Vilis
via Thanber, the station has frequently figured in Zhodani diplomatic protests. Its
long-standing presence at Retinae and the steadfastness of the Emperor has served
to maintain its continued operation.
Asmodeus is recovering from a nuclear war which ended in 1005
World 728-907, recently surveyed, is a large inhabitable world with no evidence
of higher animal life although extensive forestation and insect presence have been
noted. The Ministry of Colonisation has designated the world for seeding within
the next century, with a view to colonisation upon availability of personnel and
funds.
Collace is the site of one of several lmperial scout bases in the district. Application
has been made for membership in the Imperium, which is pending.
Tureded, a small agricultural world, has recently become of increasing importance
as a trade and shipping center because it lies at a junction for jump-I travel
from rimward to the Regina, Jewell, and Rhylanor subsectors. It is expected
that Tureded will be upgraded to a class B starport within the next decade. The
Scout Service is currently negotiating the establishment of a Scout base, with
the apparent intention of an xboat link from Rhylanor to Dinomn and Regina
The Ling Standard Products shipyards a t Lunion and Strouden are the major
shipbuilding points within the entire Spinward Marches. The excellent workmanship,
combined with level D technology, makes LSP products highly sought after.
The asteroid belt at Zaibon was once the largest deposit of copper on record,
but the lode has dwindled to virtually nothing, and the facilities are deteriorating.
Wardn is a small world notable primarily for its intricate patterns carved in its
desert plains. One hypothesis holds the runes are marks left by anerobic life, while
another claims that they are artifact results of an ancient culture.
The government on Quiru is a military junta which is the result of a mercenary
operation. Imperial force has not yet been brought to bear.
Egypt has been selected for a Ministry of Colonization training base.
Mithras is the site of an lmperial exile prison; convicted individuals are deported
to the world where they begin life anew. Although environmental conditions are
harsh, the opportunities on Mithras have made it a showcase of rehabilitation.
The Imperial Research Station a t Duale has reportedly suffered extreme damage
from an explosion of undetermined origin in 1102. A high degree of military
security has been present in the system since that date. The nature of the research
being undertaken is not known.
Nexine is an underpopulated water world currently being used by the Ministry
of Conservation for reseeding efforts using biologically altered humans.
The desert world of Thisbe has undertaken a long-term project to divert large
numbers of frozen water and gas asteroids from the Thisben belt to the planetary
surface; the intention is an improved atmosphere and hydrographic percentage
Now add what we learn from A:1 Kinunir, and the early TAS News articles in JTAS and you have a setting with built in change.
The lmperium has been suppressing political dissent in order to keep peace in the Regina subsector.
A reward has been offered by the subsector government for the location of a senator who has been missing since 1102.
A recent uprising at Feri (0405) has cut the Imperial communication jump route from Regina (0310) to Efate (0105).
The government of Roup (0407) has made a subsector-wide call for surplus starships to supplement its local forces. There has been no opposition from the subsector government.
The Forboldn Project is the primary colonization project within the Regina subsector. Originally conceived in 987 to utilize the resources of Forboldn (02081, the project began its execution phase in 1089, shortly after the Fourth Frontier War. Large numbers of colonists were recruited and shipped in cold sleep from the Imperial core, with arrival times set from 1110 to 1120. Simultaneously, preparations on Forboldn began, with detailed planetary surveys to pinpoint resources and initial building projects to prepare industry and quarters for the arrival of colonists.
Interdicted worlds are interdicted because the lmperium is trying to conceal its mistakes in social and political planning.
the Marches represent one of the furthest extents of exploration and domination
by Imperial forces. Lying adjacent to territory of the Zhodani Consulate and
the Vargr Extents, this region is a site which has seen conflict and intrigue.
Exile Camp. A location committed to the containment of individuals guilty
(or presumed guilty) of political crimes of discontent. Governmental controls
are usually restricted to the retention of inmates, and a general oppression of
the population.
lmperial Prison. A penitentiary or rehabilitation center for those guilty of lmperial crimes.
lmperial Reservation. A location, usually very large, under lmperial jurisdiction and restricted to use only by members of the lmperial family, or those authorized by a member of the lmperial family.
lmperial Way Station. A base established for the repair, maintenance, and overhaul of lmperial equipment. It may include provisions for Army troop barracks, naval and scout ship overhauls, and intelligence operations
Imperium: The lrnperium is a strong interstellar government encompassing 281 subsectors and approximately 11,000 worlds. Approximately 1100 years old, it is the third human empire to control this area, the oldest, and the strongest. Nevertheless, it is under strong pressure from its neighboring interstellar governments, and does not have the strength nor the power which it once had
Much of the upper strata of Zhodani society are extensively trained in, and
commonly practice the Psionic Heresy
The lmperium has long maintained (since 556) a research station in the Retinae
system for the purposes of communications research. Accessed From Frenzie/Vilis
via Thanber, the station has frequently figured in Zhodani diplomatic protests. Its
long-standing presence at Retinae and the steadfastness of the Emperor has served
to maintain its continued operation.
Asmodeus is recovering from a nuclear war which ended in 1005
World 728-907, recently surveyed, is a large inhabitable world with no evidence
of higher animal life although extensive forestation and insect presence have been
noted. The Ministry of Colonisation has designated the world for seeding within
the next century, with a view to colonisation upon availability of personnel and
funds.
Collace is the site of one of several lmperial scout bases in the district. Application
has been made for membership in the Imperium, which is pending.
Tureded, a small agricultural world, has recently become of increasing importance
as a trade and shipping center because it lies at a junction for jump-I travel
from rimward to the Regina, Jewell, and Rhylanor subsectors. It is expected
that Tureded will be upgraded to a class B starport within the next decade. The
Scout Service is currently negotiating the establishment of a Scout base, with
the apparent intention of an xboat link from Rhylanor to Dinomn and Regina
The Ling Standard Products shipyards a t Lunion and Strouden are the major
shipbuilding points within the entire Spinward Marches. The excellent workmanship,
combined with level D technology, makes LSP products highly sought after.
The asteroid belt at Zaibon was once the largest deposit of copper on record,
but the lode has dwindled to virtually nothing, and the facilities are deteriorating.
Wardn is a small world notable primarily for its intricate patterns carved in its
desert plains. One hypothesis holds the runes are marks left by anerobic life, while
another claims that they are artifact results of an ancient culture.
The government on Quiru is a military junta which is the result of a mercenary
operation. Imperial force has not yet been brought to bear.
Egypt has been selected for a Ministry of Colonization training base.
Mithras is the site of an lmperial exile prison; convicted individuals are deported
to the world where they begin life anew. Although environmental conditions are
harsh, the opportunities on Mithras have made it a showcase of rehabilitation.
The Imperial Research Station a t Duale has reportedly suffered extreme damage
from an explosion of undetermined origin in 1102. A high degree of military
security has been present in the system since that date. The nature of the research
being undertaken is not known.
Nexine is an underpopulated water world currently being used by the Ministry
of Conservation for reseeding efforts using biologically altered humans.
The desert world of Thisbe has undertaken a long-term project to divert large
numbers of frozen water and gas asteroids from the Thisben belt to the planetary
surface; the intention is an improved atmosphere and hydrographic percentage
Now add what we learn from A:1 Kinunir, and the early TAS News articles in JTAS and you have a setting with built in change.
The lmperium has been suppressing political dissent in order to keep peace in the Regina subsector.
A reward has been offered by the subsector government for the location of a senator who has been missing since 1102.
A recent uprising at Feri (0405) has cut the Imperial communication jump route from Regina (0310) to Efate (0105).
The government of Roup (0407) has made a subsector-wide call for surplus starships to supplement its local forces. There has been no opposition from the subsector government.
The Forboldn Project is the primary colonization project within the Regina subsector. Originally conceived in 987 to utilize the resources of Forboldn (02081, the project began its execution phase in 1089, shortly after the Fourth Frontier War. Large numbers of colonists were recruited and shipped in cold sleep from the Imperial core, with arrival times set from 1110 to 1120. Simultaneously, preparations on Forboldn began, with detailed planetary surveys to pinpoint resources and initial building projects to prepare industry and quarters for the arrival of colonists.
Interdicted worlds are interdicted because the lmperium is trying to conceal its mistakes in social and political planning.
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Jump space, or the zone of normal space from/within which Jump is possible?
In other words, is the concept that the star maps are a representation of the positional relationships of stars within the 2D jump space -- that is, their positions in 3D space correspond with 2D relative positions within Jumpspace, then the charts are drawn of that?
Or they are an actual representation of the stars that are on the arbitrary 2D plane within 3D normal space between which Jump can happen?
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