Theocratic Republics

[Plankowner]

I have always figured that any UPP on a published map is at least a decade out of date, maybe more.

Grand Surveys were for a reason, so in the Classic Era, some of that data (especially outside the Imperium) is a century old. Now, think back in Earth's History. How much have WE changed since 1907? Forget TL, just look at population and governments. Any new governments around? Any old ones gone??? Yes to both and while the Population number may not have changed, the multiplier has changed several times.

I generally have a UPP a 1in6 chance of being VERY wrong somehow. Kept the players on their toes. I also figured that the SubSector maps might be a bit more accurate, but barely. After all Regina was shown with TL A for a LONG time before it got corrected to TL C. If that can happen to a sub-sector capital, what can you expect for a more out-of-the-way world?

 

[Plankowner]

Back on subject...

Deciding which of the three main GOV types to use for your Theocratic Republic would depend also on the LL. Generally, the higher the GOV, the higher the LL, so I would use that as a guide to which of the various scenarios presented above where in place on a given world.

GOV 4, LL 3 is probably a pretty good place to live with religious people in charge, but they don't push it down anyone's throat.

GOV 4, LL A is a bit different, this is probably more like a "democracy" that is really hiding a Theocracy.

Let the numbers work for you.

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

To put some canon polish on the issue, there's an article by MWM in FASA's High Passage #5 helpfully titled, "Planetary Government in Traveller". He explicitly lists "Iran as an Islamic Republic" as an example of a type D "religious dictatorship" government.

The article also echoes Plankowner's comments. The government code doesn't necessarily specify the exact type of government for a given world, but rather, "...what [Travellers] can expect from the governmental structure at their own level."

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
Population, again open to interpretation.

Well, actually, shouldn't that one be a matter of being able to use your Scout-issue calculator? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1....

Originally posted by Plankowner:
Any new governments around? Any old ones gone???

Funny question, because there are governments that have come AND gone in that time period - the Soviet Union, for one. Some analysts would say that in another few years, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between future then and way back then - in terms of Gov code, at least.

 

[Plankowner]

Maybe Fritz, but what about a world with a Roman Empire type of government structure. When you count your population, what number do you use? Number of Roman Citizens, number of Free Citizens or Number of People (including slaves which are considered property, not people by law)?

I believe in one of the early JTAS's there was an article about world building where they took a UWP and gave it life. There was a small population at TL 3-4 I think. They assumed a native population not accounted for in the POP figure. So, who does the counting and what they count is very much up for grabs.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

However, I thought canon said the POP assumes all the sentients.
Though I can see what you're saying if the Scout uses the local government's figures....

 

[Plankowner]

I don't think that is the case. Transient populations are not counted. Military populations are not counted. Besides, what fun is it if the UWP is ALWAYS correct.

Ask the US Census Bureau about the population of the US. They estimate to within about 30%-50% and this is the GOVERNMENT.

 

[rancke]

For a fun historical example of a theocratic republic, check out Girolamo Savonarola:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola


Hans

 

[mbrinkhues]

Let's not forget differences in interpretation.
Some examples:

</font>

• WHAT is the European Union?
  </font>
  • </font>
  • It can and does have jurisdiction over members passing "general laws"</font>
  • Each member does implement those over a time
    {*] Own budget, ministers, elections</font>
  Yet it is NOT a UN member and not considered a full state here on earth
• Great Britain, Democracy or Monarchie given the rather low-powered nobles?</font>
• Historical Athens often called the first Democracy is actually an oligarchie. What is it's code? What would the Imperium of Pippin(older) and Charlemange be with their needs to get agreement of their nobles?</font>
• Switzerland until 1971/the 1990s in parts, USA until 1920, Italy/France until the mid 1940s, Germany until 1918 - Democracy or Oligarchie</font>
• As for a really fast change look at Italy between 1850 and 1871 (Balkanised to single state), Germany is a lesser example</font>
• Germany 1919 to 1933 was still called the "Deutsches Reich" (Weimar Republic is just a handle NOT the states name) yet was a pure Democracy (Most likely the purest ever which killed it)</font>
• Germany 1871-1919 had a three part system with a strong democratic element yet on first look the later period (Wilhelm II) would not appear so</font>
• What was the UdSSR? Most would say a Communism where it actually (and in it's own concepts) never advanced past Dictatorship of the Proletarians (Lenin, 1917)</font>

Depending on how good a scout ship does it's work it might actually get a system tagged wrong by using the obvious sources and calling it an easy job compared to the last 25 they did in the past 9 monthe without RandR.

And there is always the graft. Unless you buy GT's perfect SPA, Scouts and Fleet/Armed Forces and mostly perfect nobility that is (IMHO the biggest flaw of GT) So maybe a big MegaCorps would like some local TL1 civilisation to be overlooked or a system given a bad governmental rating (Would you recommend visiting Europe in 1944?). Or a Marquis needs to keep down an upstart Baron by having a population and therefor funds and fleet assets underestimated.

 

[Plankowner]

Very good comments all Michael.

It goes back to what I was saying, WHO does the reporting (and WHY) is just as important as WHAT is being reported.

The Honest Scout might get it right, but how many honest people are there in the TU (no characters that I remember, including my own)...

 

[Hemdian]

Originally posted by FlightCommanderSolitude:
To put some canon polish on the issue, there's an article by MWM in FASA's High Passage #5 helpfully titled, "Planetary Government in Traveller". He explicitly lists "Iran as an Islamic Republic" as an example of a type D "religious dictatorship" government.

The article also echoes Plankowner's comments. The government code doesn't necessarily specify the exact type of government for a given world, but rather, "...what [Travellers] can expect from the governmental structure at their own level."

I've always liked that article. It influenced my Yori landgrab article ... UPP stated it had a feudal technocracy and I wrote about a government by a priesthood that valued secular knowledge (a theocratically-controlled feudal technocracy). So when the PCs in one of my games was visiting a planetary official they expected a scientist and were confronted by a priest!

Regards PLST