This is Free Trader Beowulf...

[kafka47]

Bryan:

I do agree that Traveller is a small world which has not much exposure. But, as a SF background with good stories and background. Do you not think it could have the basis for continuing a storyline in a series of comics?

Surely, much of what Marc claims as his intellectual property (without making direct reference to the words/concepts**) would have overlap with any SF universe.

Therefore, one needs to concentrate their efforts on a good story consistantly. As to Firefly's success, for sure it became an instant cult TV classic but only through appropiating the work of others who had tread the path before. Surely Traveller can do the same but in a narrower medium - comics.

I think this would be the best use of the limited licences that are currently under discussion. Bring in an audience and everything else will fall into place.

**Would a good list of words/concepts that Marc holds close included as the excluded words in the OGL?

 

[kafka47]

Bryan:

I do agree that Traveller is a small world which has not much exposure. But, as a SF background with good stories and background. Do you not think it could have the basis for continuing a storyline in a series of comics?

Surely, much of what Marc claims as his intellectual property (without making direct reference to the words/concepts**) would have overlap with any SF universe.

Therefore, one needs to concentrate their efforts on a good story consistantly. As to Firefly's success, for sure it became an instant cult TV classic but only through appropiating the work of others who had tread the path before. Surely Traveller can do the same but in a narrower medium - comics.

I think this would be the best use of the limited licences that are currently under discussion. Bring in an audience and everything else will fall into place.

**Would a good list of words/concepts that Marc holds close included as the excluded words in the OGL?

 

[bryan gibson]

I do agree that Traveller is a small world which has not much exposure. But, as a SF background with good stories and background. Do you not think it could have the basis for continuing a storyline in a series of comics?

Oh, I'm not saying the potential in of itself isn't there, far from it- truth be told, I'm bullish on the idea of a Traveller comic. I merely meant that the market recognition of Traveller is small, which you have to admit is a hurdle if pitching the idea to an established company.

Surely, much of what Marc claims as his intellectual property (without making direct reference to the words/concepts**) would have overlap with any SF universe.

see, herein lies the rub...granted, in abstract this is true. But if you remove the elements that make no direct reference (including certain contextual elements, like you could have an Empire, but not the Third Imperium) what you wind up with is a comic about adventurers in a fairly generic star spanning fuedal empire in ships that have FTL ( but not jump, because that concept in context is intrinsic) and doing stuff as they travel ( but not refered to as such) the universe.

You see the problem...oh, certainly you get a good SF comic out of it, assuming the writing and art are good, but not nessecarily a Traveller comic- it would probably appear a hollow knockoff which aesthetically dosen't appeal, to me anyway.

Therefore, one needs to concentrate their efforts on a good story consistantly. As to Firefly's success, for sure it became an instant cult TV classic but only through appropiating the work of others who had tread the path before. Surely Traveller can do the same but in a narrower medium - comics.

While I would certainly hesitate to say " only appropriating" ( Firefly is actually fairly original in its approach, but Whedon never denied its antecedents - don't forget, Roddenberry pitched Star Trek as "Wagon Train in space") I certainly see your point, and agree. Story is everything, and comics is no exception.While the medium isn't the cakewalk people seem to think it is , the fact is that if the story is weak tea all else fails.

I think this would be the best use of the limited licences that are currently under discussion. Bring in an audience and everything else will fall into place.

Again, best use is a subjective thing - but theres no reason it couldn't be done that way, assuming a few things.

Point - If you arent using Trav OTU as a setting, why bother at all? I mean in reference to the Traveller issues- otherwise, as above its just an SF comic, generally speaking. Again, thats not all bad...I like SF comics.But if a comics not using OTU, limited liscense is no hurdle.

What you wind up with is a comic that isn't Traveller, as I see it.

Point-On the other hand, thers no reason not to do a Trav comic - the setting is rich, and all that, if only one obtains the permissions.

So the question really has to come to- is it a question of doing a Traveller comic, or one of a comic that is SF oriented?

Either has potential, but you see how the crucial question comes to play at the outset.

 

[bryan gibson]

I do agree that Traveller is a small world which has not much exposure. But, as a SF background with good stories and background. Do you not think it could have the basis for continuing a storyline in a series of comics?

Oh, I'm not saying the potential in of itself isn't there, far from it- truth be told, I'm bullish on the idea of a Traveller comic. I merely meant that the market recognition of Traveller is small, which you have to admit is a hurdle if pitching the idea to an established company.

Surely, much of what Marc claims as his intellectual property (without making direct reference to the words/concepts**) would have overlap with any SF universe.

see, herein lies the rub...granted, in abstract this is true. But if you remove the elements that make no direct reference (including certain contextual elements, like you could have an Empire, but not the Third Imperium) what you wind up with is a comic about adventurers in a fairly generic star spanning fuedal empire in ships that have FTL ( but not jump, because that concept in context is intrinsic) and doing stuff as they travel ( but not refered to as such) the universe.

You see the problem...oh, certainly you get a good SF comic out of it, assuming the writing and art are good, but not nessecarily a Traveller comic- it would probably appear a hollow knockoff which aesthetically dosen't appeal, to me anyway.

Therefore, one needs to concentrate their efforts on a good story consistantly. As to Firefly's success, for sure it became an instant cult TV classic but only through appropiating the work of others who had tread the path before. Surely Traveller can do the same but in a narrower medium - comics.

While I would certainly hesitate to say " only appropriating" ( Firefly is actually fairly original in its approach, but Whedon never denied its antecedents - don't forget, Roddenberry pitched Star Trek as "Wagon Train in space") I certainly see your point, and agree. Story is everything, and comics is no exception.While the medium isn't the cakewalk people seem to think it is , the fact is that if the story is weak tea all else fails.

I think this would be the best use of the limited licences that are currently under discussion. Bring in an audience and everything else will fall into place.

Again, best use is a subjective thing - but theres no reason it couldn't be done that way, assuming a few things.

Point - If you arent using Trav OTU as a setting, why bother at all? I mean in reference to the Traveller issues- otherwise, as above its just an SF comic, generally speaking. Again, thats not all bad...I like SF comics.But if a comics not using OTU, limited liscense is no hurdle.

What you wind up with is a comic that isn't Traveller, as I see it.

Point-On the other hand, thers no reason not to do a Trav comic - the setting is rich, and all that, if only one obtains the permissions.

So the question really has to come to- is it a question of doing a Traveller comic, or one of a comic that is SF oriented?

Either has potential, but you see how the crucial question comes to play at the outset.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Seems a logical step in an age where movies are routinely made from videogames, and so on.
Comics can be a good way to increase market potential and exposure, beyond the gaming market. Even the Army used to use them for relating technical data and procedure. It is a powerful medium.

For example, The Masters of the Universe line of toys was succesful (and still is, I guess.)in part because each figure came with a small comic explaining what the character was about. This later on grew into a show. They kept the background simple and ran with it (but with cheesy, though funny, results)

Micronauts started as a Japanese Action figure line, then went on to a successful (by which I mean well done and long-running) Comic for Marvel. There has even been talk from time to time of some sort of show/cartoon.

I suggest if Traveller ever gets its own magazine again, that it have a comics page. I can already "see" a funny one, a satirical one, perhaps a "Phil and Dixie" type thing (except good), as well as a couple of "serious" types ala Prince Valiant/Tarzan/The Phantom (These should feature a lot of action.) Heck, we could even do bogus political cartoons about 57th century "current events". It doesn't have to be a four-issue foil-cover spectacular, but a monthly four panel would do nicely.

"Elementals" also springs to mind, a comic developed from a Villains and Vigilantes Campaign

The "Wildcards" series of books sprung also from a Superworld campaign.

The "Geek Dollar" hierarchy of Marketing:
-----------------------------------------
Toys/"Hard Merchandise"
Games (incl. RPGs and computer stuff.)
Books
Comics
Films/TV

The interesting thing is that any one of the above items can generate or help establish any or all of the others.

I see RPGs being a very good "group writing" tool, and can its "byproducts" (especially in the PBEM sense) can be pages and pages of workable and easily edited plotlines and action. In my own game, we have just gone on our third year, and Gmail posts are averaging well over 100 replies per plot situation.

Personally, I see Traveller marketed not so much to small kids, but from 12-14 and up. A careful balance with the Marketing, sort of like a non-creepy version of what Games Workshop does, with production of excellent product while preserving the important part of its "cultness" (Pardon, I have no other word for it) the "Less is More" that made CT stand out in the market all those years ago. Need to find a way to make it cool without going so far as putting Jar-Jar Binks on Regina, so to speak.

I'll write, edit, or do layouts and whatever if or when you guys want to do a comic. I know how to do it, (my copy of Illustrator is literally set up to do it) but it is (and should be) a team effort. Getting a team together is the hard part.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Seems a logical step in an age where movies are routinely made from videogames, and so on.
Comics can be a good way to increase market potential and exposure, beyond the gaming market. Even the Army used to use them for relating technical data and procedure. It is a powerful medium.

For example, The Masters of the Universe line of toys was succesful (and still is, I guess.)in part because each figure came with a small comic explaining what the character was about. This later on grew into a show. They kept the background simple and ran with it (but with cheesy, though funny, results)

Micronauts started as a Japanese Action figure line, then went on to a successful (by which I mean well done and long-running) Comic for Marvel. There has even been talk from time to time of some sort of show/cartoon.

I suggest if Traveller ever gets its own magazine again, that it have a comics page. I can already "see" a funny one, a satirical one, perhaps a "Phil and Dixie" type thing (except good), as well as a couple of "serious" types ala Prince Valiant/Tarzan/The Phantom (These should feature a lot of action.) Heck, we could even do bogus political cartoons about 57th century "current events". It doesn't have to be a four-issue foil-cover spectacular, but a monthly four panel would do nicely.

"Elementals" also springs to mind, a comic developed from a Villains and Vigilantes Campaign

The "Wildcards" series of books sprung also from a Superworld campaign.

The "Geek Dollar" hierarchy of Marketing:
-----------------------------------------
Toys/"Hard Merchandise"
Games (incl. RPGs and computer stuff.)
Books
Comics
Films/TV

The interesting thing is that any one of the above items can generate or help establish any or all of the others.

I see RPGs being a very good "group writing" tool, and can its "byproducts" (especially in the PBEM sense) can be pages and pages of workable and easily edited plotlines and action. In my own game, we have just gone on our third year, and Gmail posts are averaging well over 100 replies per plot situation.

Personally, I see Traveller marketed not so much to small kids, but from 12-14 and up. A careful balance with the Marketing, sort of like a non-creepy version of what Games Workshop does, with production of excellent product while preserving the important part of its "cultness" (Pardon, I have no other word for it) the "Less is More" that made CT stand out in the market all those years ago. Need to find a way to make it cool without going so far as putting Jar-Jar Binks on Regina, so to speak.

I'll write, edit, or do layouts and whatever if or when you guys want to do a comic. I know how to do it, (my copy of Illustrator is literally set up to do it) but it is (and should be) a team effort. Getting a team together is the hard part.

 

[kafka47]

Jump? is unique to Traveller? I would have thought those are concepts could easily be transposed. Perhaps, the set length of time or the distances as expressed by a number are Traveller IP.

As for other concepts, Imperium could easily become Empire, Sollie space - the sphere...of course, all this would be cleared with MWM.

I agree it boils down to a story but basic architecture of Traveller allows for a storyline to quickly be developed.

I would be hoping if the comic would be a success more and more concepts from the OTU could then be transported in. Or am I way over in left field on this one.

 

[kafka47]

Jump? is unique to Traveller? I would have thought those are concepts could easily be transposed. Perhaps, the set length of time or the distances as expressed by a number are Traveller IP.

As for other concepts, Imperium could easily become Empire, Sollie space - the sphere...of course, all this would be cleared with MWM.

I agree it boils down to a story but basic architecture of Traveller allows for a storyline to quickly be developed.

I would be hoping if the comic would be a success more and more concepts from the OTU could then be transported in. Or am I way over in left field on this one.

 

[bryan gibson]

Jump? is unique to Traveller? I would have thought those are concepts could easily be transposed. Perhaps, the set length of time or the distances as expressed by a number are Traveller IP.

Not so much the term "jump" as in a lightyears spanning leap, but the mechanism of a set one week duration, and so forth certainly is.

As for other concepts, Imperium could easily become Empire, Sollie space - the sphere...of course, all this would be cleared with MWM.

rather lame, IMO... a pale imitation is just derivitive work, and frankly not worthy of the effort. Either go whole clothj and write it from scratch, or follow OTU in toto otherwise its just sloppy serial number filing hack work...certainly not anything I'd want to be a part of.

I agree it boils down to a story but basic architecture of Traveller allows for a storyline to quickly be developed.

agreed.

I would be hoping if the comic would be a success more and more concepts from the OTU could then be transported in. Or am I way over in left field on this one.

I'd have to honestly say refer to my statement above. If youre gonna do it right, then it wants doing right, anything else tends to come off lame duck.

If your gonna do traveller, then lets do Traveller...not ( as it would be seen) as some barely glossed over , half assed , sloppily hidden derivative of it. And if you think THAT assessment is harsh, wait till the fans (or, god help you, TML) cuts loose.I'm being kind compared to those guys.

I have no grief at all with the idea as a whole, but I have to say (in all honesty) that your idea as to its execution is unrealistic.

A traveller comic, as a labor of love as you put it, is a commendable idea. However, its not labors of love that comics companies care about - its bottom dollar. After all, they ARE in the buisness to make money, period. Say what you will, for good or ill its all about the numbers.

If its a fan effort you want, then by all means, but if its something you want the companies to take seriously, then you have to look at it professionally, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. They won't care about accuracy, or love, or enthusiasm- they will look at a team that delivers consistant quality, on deadline, everytime to a predictable standard. They would probably saddle with their writing team, cause unless yours has professional creds, they are shit outta luck - dues are for paying and on someones nickel they go with who they know.

And, frankly, unless you or someone else ponies up a BIG chunk of change and a shitload of credit with the distributors, they have every right to call those shots.

However, I would be willing to offer what poor advise I could to the effort, and there are several industry types that post here that could add a few wise cents to the mix...what do you think?

But I would sufggest check the idealism at the door...in the buisness sense, its just impractical.

But as a fan effort, think about this...a webcomic?

 

[bryan gibson]

Jump? is unique to Traveller? I would have thought those are concepts could easily be transposed. Perhaps, the set length of time or the distances as expressed by a number are Traveller IP.

Not so much the term "jump" as in a lightyears spanning leap, but the mechanism of a set one week duration, and so forth certainly is.

As for other concepts, Imperium could easily become Empire, Sollie space - the sphere...of course, all this would be cleared with MWM.

rather lame, IMO... a pale imitation is just derivitive work, and frankly not worthy of the effort. Either go whole clothj and write it from scratch, or follow OTU in toto otherwise its just sloppy serial number filing hack work...certainly not anything I'd want to be a part of.

I agree it boils down to a story but basic architecture of Traveller allows for a storyline to quickly be developed.

agreed.

I would be hoping if the comic would be a success more and more concepts from the OTU could then be transported in. Or am I way over in left field on this one.

I'd have to honestly say refer to my statement above. If youre gonna do it right, then it wants doing right, anything else tends to come off lame duck.

If your gonna do traveller, then lets do Traveller...not ( as it would be seen) as some barely glossed over , half assed , sloppily hidden derivative of it. And if you think THAT assessment is harsh, wait till the fans (or, god help you, TML) cuts loose.I'm being kind compared to those guys.

I have no grief at all with the idea as a whole, but I have to say (in all honesty) that your idea as to its execution is unrealistic.

A traveller comic, as a labor of love as you put it, is a commendable idea. However, its not labors of love that comics companies care about - its bottom dollar. After all, they ARE in the buisness to make money, period. Say what you will, for good or ill its all about the numbers.

If its a fan effort you want, then by all means, but if its something you want the companies to take seriously, then you have to look at it professionally, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. They won't care about accuracy, or love, or enthusiasm- they will look at a team that delivers consistant quality, on deadline, everytime to a predictable standard. They would probably saddle with their writing team, cause unless yours has professional creds, they are shit outta luck - dues are for paying and on someones nickel they go with who they know.

And, frankly, unless you or someone else ponies up a BIG chunk of change and a shitload of credit with the distributors, they have every right to call those shots.

However, I would be willing to offer what poor advise I could to the effort, and there are several industry types that post here that could add a few wise cents to the mix...what do you think?

But I would sufggest check the idealism at the door...in the buisness sense, its just impractical.

But as a fan effort, think about this...a webcomic?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by bryan gibson:

But as a fan effort, think about this...a webcomic?

I was waiting for that suggestion.
</font>

• Andrew (and others) for the art</font>
• Mal for the "Technical Direction"</font>
• Flynn can handle the "publishing"</font>
• Who would write the dialog?</font>

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by bryan gibson:

But as a fan effort, think about this...a webcomic?

I was waiting for that suggestion.
</font>

• Andrew (and others) for the art</font>
• Mal for the "Technical Direction"</font>
• Flynn can handle the "publishing"</font>
• Who would write the dialog?</font>

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by kafka47:
And then they say that we must all bow down to Manga/Anime...I don't think so.

Dark Horse Press Release for the Serenity mini-series

While it captures the characters well enough, some of the eyes for example look off to me. It does convey the characters adequately for a DH b&w comic book piece though. The colored pieces look like a different artist does them and look similar to the Aliens books or earlier Whedon series at DH. I liked some of their Buffy series and Fray (another series written by Whedon) was excellent, so hopefully this will be as well.

Last I looked nobody was forcing any company or any person to “bow down to Manga/Anime”. Market forces are still at work and no one style, genre, or artist is enough to cover everything. I expected this comic book series to resemble the earlier Whedon series and it does, with at least some artists who worked on the earlier series.

I’m all for good science fiction stories and artwork, regardless of medium, place of origin, or style. That there’s a decided lack of such in American TV and comic books doesn’t mean I will stop looking for such works where I can find them, nor am I going to limit myself to one medium, works from only one place of origin, or one style. As Theodore Sturgeon said, “ninety percent of everything is crud”. In the case of anime and manga at least fortunately there’s a lot wider range now available, including works from China and Korea. Yes there’s more junk to sift through but it’s easier and cheaper to get good works now than ever before.

FWIW Dark Horse is also one of the premier manga publishers in the US, with Studio Proteus translating titles like many of Shirow’s works and Venus Wars for them.

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by kafka47:
And then they say that we must all bow down to Manga/Anime...I don't think so.

Dark Horse Press Release for the Serenity mini-series

While it captures the characters well enough, some of the eyes for example look off to me. It does convey the characters adequately for a DH b&w comic book piece though. The colored pieces look like a different artist does them and look similar to the Aliens books or earlier Whedon series at DH. I liked some of their Buffy series and Fray (another series written by Whedon) was excellent, so hopefully this will be as well.

Last I looked nobody was forcing any company or any person to “bow down to Manga/Anime”. Market forces are still at work and no one style, genre, or artist is enough to cover everything. I expected this comic book series to resemble the earlier Whedon series and it does, with at least some artists who worked on the earlier series.

I’m all for good science fiction stories and artwork, regardless of medium, place of origin, or style. That there’s a decided lack of such in American TV and comic books doesn’t mean I will stop looking for such works where I can find them, nor am I going to limit myself to one medium, works from only one place of origin, or one style. As Theodore Sturgeon said, “ninety percent of everything is crud”. In the case of anime and manga at least fortunately there’s a lot wider range now available, including works from China and Korea. Yes there’s more junk to sift through but it’s easier and cheaper to get good works now than ever before.

FWIW Dark Horse is also one of the premier manga publishers in the US, with Studio Proteus translating titles like many of Shirow’s works and Venus Wars for them.

 

[Seanr451]

This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone . . . Mayday, Mayday . . . we are under attack . . . main drive is gone . . . turret number one not responding Mayday . . . losing cabin pressure fast calling anyone . . . please help . . . This is Free Trader Beowulf . . . Mayday . . .

Free Trader Beowulf...
Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
Can you hear me?
Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
Hang in there, Beowulf...
...help is on the way!

I actually ran this as an adventure in a game a long time ago. (Before Gurps-Traveller came out) The players, a group of hardened Mercenaries, caught this signal shortly after comming out of jump. Thier initial thought was; "Man, I'll bet we can make some money off of this deal!" They didn't get there in time to stop the pirates. After searching the ship and seeing the havoc and carnage the pirates left they spent the next year (game time not real time) hunting down the pirates. They took merc jobs to keep themselves fed and fueled but their primary aim was to revenge the crew of Beowulf upon the pirates. They eventually took out not just the pirates responsible, they also located a pirates haven, and after determining it was too hard a target for their small unit size they informed the Imperial Navy.

Because of their limited resourses in the area the Navy allowed them to participate in the raid. I'll never forget the meeting between the PC leader and the Naval Commadore.

PC: "Our corporate charter says we can't get involved unless we've been paid."
COM: "I don't have the budget to pay you guys. Unfortunately, without your help I don't have the forces to take out that base either. I guess that I'll just have to send an X-boat message to the Admiral and await the arrival of more forces."
PC: "But that will take weeks! They'll have moved to a new location by then!"
COM: "I don't have any other..."
PC: "Give me a buck!"
COM: "What?"
PC: "A single credit. Give me a credit right now!"
COM: "Umm... ok." (Hands the PC a credit bill while considering pressing the hidden button calling Marine Security)
PC: "Having received this credit from you we have now been paid and can work for you."

It was a great story-arc and got the PC's to do something that didn't involve immediate self-interest.

 

[Seanr451]

This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone . . . Mayday, Mayday . . . we are under attack . . . main drive is gone . . . turret number one not responding Mayday . . . losing cabin pressure fast calling anyone . . . please help . . . This is Free Trader Beowulf . . . Mayday . . .

Free Trader Beowulf...
Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
Can you hear me?
Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
Hang in there, Beowulf...
...help is on the way!

I actually ran this as an adventure in a game a long time ago. (Before Gurps-Traveller came out) The players, a group of hardened Mercenaries, caught this signal shortly after comming out of jump. Thier initial thought was; "Man, I'll bet we can make some money off of this deal!" They didn't get there in time to stop the pirates. After searching the ship and seeing the havoc and carnage the pirates left they spent the next year (game time not real time) hunting down the pirates. They took merc jobs to keep themselves fed and fueled but their primary aim was to revenge the crew of Beowulf upon the pirates. They eventually took out not just the pirates responsible, they also located a pirates haven, and after determining it was too hard a target for their small unit size they informed the Imperial Navy.

Because of their limited resourses in the area the Navy allowed them to participate in the raid. I'll never forget the meeting between the PC leader and the Naval Commadore.

PC: "Our corporate charter says we can't get involved unless we've been paid."
COM: "I don't have the budget to pay you guys. Unfortunately, without your help I don't have the forces to take out that base either. I guess that I'll just have to send an X-boat message to the Admiral and await the arrival of more forces."
PC: "But that will take weeks! They'll have moved to a new location by then!"
COM: "I don't have any other..."
PC: "Give me a buck!"
COM: "What?"
PC: "A single credit. Give me a credit right now!"
COM: "Umm... ok." (Hands the PC a credit bill while considering pressing the hidden button calling Marine Security)
PC: "Having received this credit from you we have now been paid and can work for you."

It was a great story-arc and got the PC's to do something that didn't involve immediate self-interest.