Ticket For Piracy

[kilemall]

Most of us are of course familiar with the CT classic roll for passengers who will attempt a hijack during the voyage.

But it occurred to me while pondering the Gentlemen Trader type of play and campaign, that the reverse could be true- a ship's crew could be planning nefarious ends for the unwary player and his cargo.

Seizing the cargo, spacing or selling off the passengers to slavery/medical experiments/organ harvesting/cult sacrifices/credit-identity theft/manhunt safaris etc. etc. could be a profitable line of work, and certainly easier and less risk then shooting, stopping ships, then trying to get away from local nav/LE.

Could also be a nice down payment on making off with an indebted ship- even arrange for some wreckage from another ship of the same class and some dead verifiable passengers from the ship to be 'disappeared' to be found, maybe with a bribe in the right places to forego forensics and declare the wreckage to legitimately be the 'right' ship lost.

What say you? Roll every ship you get on for possible passage gone wrong?

 

[CosmicGamer]

So instead of the passenger hijacking the plane, you are essentially asking how often does the airplane crew sell the passengers off to slavery, or harvest their organs?

I guess it depends on your version of obtaining passage. Is it a well established service with lots of regulation and oversight or is it more like hitching a ride on some deserted highway?

Consider the following for a nefarious person willing to do ill onto others for personal gain.
1) Find a group of no gooders and board a ship together to do your nastiness.
2) Get a few hooligans to control their urges and play the long con where they stay on the straight and narrow to train and work for 4-12 years to gain the certifications and experience to get jobs to crew a ship and put their plan into action. (or the longer method of being experienced and successful enough to get someone to loan you the money to buy a ship)

 

[Kilgs]

This is one of the issues I have with Star Trader. It has a "Jump Event" table for something going wrong in jump. It says to roll each jump but the events are pretty serious. If the business was that dangerous, it would really cut down on the number of Free Traders out there and, therefore, raise the price.

I would say roll a 2d6 and on a 11+ (or d6, on a 6) for SOMETHING happening. Star Trader has a nice table. But it shouldn't be that common. It really raises the risk (and therefore cost) of doing business.

 

[epicenter00]

2) Get a few hooligans to control their urges and play the long con where they stay on the straight and narrow to train and work for 4-12 years to gain the certifications and experience to get jobs to crew a ship and put their plan into action. (or the longer method of being experienced and successful enough to get someone to loan you the money to buy a ship)

In the kind of space opera setting of the Imperium in Traveller, IMO, you don't actually need 4-12 years to gain the certifications. You do, obviously, if you want to work for a respectable starship operator, especially some corporate or megacorporate line like Tukera or Oberlindes because they probably require it.

Just like IRL even right at this moment, there's probably plenty of smaller lines that of the kind that operates in certain SE Asian nations even today where crews who have haphazard, fabricated, or literally no certifications are sailing around on ships that have broken rudders or similar things; there may be laws against such hazardous operation but they're not enforced.

In the TU, I imagine such ships might be among those that operate in the fringes of Imperial space - ships that can make their own planetary landings, sticking to systems with D or E starports and perhaps the occasional undermanned/corrupt C spaceport. They have falsified records of annual maintenance or stick to systems where the local COACC "coast guard" and starport authorities can be bribed or simply too thinly stretched (likely both, perhaps due to the skinflint local government that doesn't want to budget such persons) so they can operate in this fashion.

Another example might be someone who purchases a Far Trader and finds he (or she) cannot make ends meet (probably because of the low cargo capacity and high operating costs of the flawed design of the Far Trader ) they operate their ship in that nebulous area the equivalent of people who have the bill collectors bugging them day and night but they haven't been foreclosed on yet. The operator of the ship knows that if their ship gets impounded, they're out - homeless - so they're increasingly desperate but have no idea how to make up shortfall. Then one day, a few wealthy people, really wealthy, book passage on the ship on the equivalent of a safari because they're desperate to get somewhere and the ship is the only one that is going there in a timely manner - they're loading in crates and crates of really expensive clothes, silk tents, tricked out ATVs made by R'raang Rhavrr of Kuzu ...

 

[Travellerspud]

this scenario certainly happens in real life - look at refugees from northern africa or asia who pay top dollar for a space on an overloaded boat, only to have the crew run with the money and leave them adrift....

 

[pshrynk]

this scenario certainly happens in real life - look at refugees from northern africa or asia who pay top dollar for a space on an overloaded boat, only to have the crew run with the money and leave them adrift....

I was thinking that the probable setting would be something like that. On the fringes or in a war zone where refugees need to get off planet and are willing to risk everything to get away. Then the parasites would gather and there would be a chance with increasing probability with the intensity of the war that the "safe passage" miracle would be just a Venus Fly Trap.

 

[kilemall]

This is one of the issues I have with Star Trader. It has a "Jump Event" table for something going wrong in jump. It says to roll each jump but the events are pretty serious. If the business was that dangerous, it would really cut down on the number of Free Traders out there and, therefore, raise the price.

I would say roll a 2d6 and on a 11+ (or d6, on a 6) for SOMETHING happening. Star Trader has a nice table. But it shouldn't be that common. It really raises the risk (and therefore cost) of doing business.

The classic roll for hijacking attempts is 3d6, 18 only. So, way higher then the point Space Lloyd's of Regina would have kittens, but lower then the above.

Of course, we have a universe where local garbage scows are packing missiles. Big risks big reward and all that.

 

[flykiller]

2) Get a few hooligans to control their urges and play the long con where they stay on the straight and narrow to train and work for 4-12 years to gain the certifications and experience to get jobs to crew a ship and put their plan into action.

heh. reminds me of the two bright business boys fresh out of college. they borrowed $10k, tripled it. they borrowed $100k, tripled it. they borrowed $1m, tripled it. by this time banks were fighting amongst themselves to loan money to them. they borrowed $10m ... and took off.

 

[BlackBat242]

Most of us are of course familiar with the CT classic roll for passengers who will attempt a hijack during the voyage.

But it occurred to me while pondering the Gentlemen Trader type of play and campaign, that the reverse could be true- a ship's crew could be planning nefarious ends for the unwary player and his cargo.

Seizing the cargo, spacing or selling off the passengers to slavery/medical experiments/organ harvesting/cult sacrifices/credit-identity theft/manhunt safaris etc. etc. could be a profitable line of work, and certainly easier and less risk then shooting, stopping ships, then trying to get away from local nav/LE.

What say you? Roll every ship you get on for possible passage gone wrong?

So instead of the passenger hijacking the plane, you are essentially asking how often does the airplane crew sell the passengers off to slavery, or harvest their organs?

Merchant ship Betty*.


* http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Betty

 

[CosmicGamer]

Another example might be

this scenario certainly happens in real life

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that such can not happen. Just saying what are the odds? To me it seams in this scenario we are talking about a gentleman with means and some understanding of how things operate who can evaluate the risks and rewards when booking passage and seemingly would want respectable, reliable, transport. Not some refugees willing to risk everything on any chance at all.

Not that one needs to mirror the odds of reality in a game. If we did...

There are less than 1.5 million violent crimes in America in a year.
There are over 300 million people in the U.S.
That is something like a 1% chance - and that is in a year. Yes, yes, a million factors I'm not including like how many people were involved in each incident and how often these violent crimes are repeat offenses like domestic abuse and so on, and so on. Just a real rough number.
There is a 2.78% chance of rolling a 12 on 2d6.
For the simulationist, makes it hard to justify putting several violent outcomes on 2d6 tables every single time Travellers do anything.

My point for the OP question

What say you? Roll every ship you get on for possible passage gone wrong?

is that it doesn't need to be on the tables unless you want it to be.

 

[kilemall]

There are less than 1.5 million violent crimes in America in a year.
There are over 300 million people in the U.S.
That is something like a 1% chance - and that is in a year. Yes, yes, a million factors I'm not including like how many people were involved in each incident and how often these violent crimes are repeat offenses like domestic abuse and so on, and so on. Just a real rough number.

There is a problem with your cited example.

That's the averages, spread out over the entire population.

If you are in the WRONG neighborhood though, your chances of having serious crime occur move to 1 in 17 chance per year, or worse- right in line with the Traveller Hijack roll of 1 in 16 (although not every trip of course).

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/25-most-dangerous-neighborhoods/

And most Travellers are moving through Dangerous Neighborhoods, not the Sol-to-Alpha-Centauri milk run.

There is a 2.78% chance of rolling a 12 on 2d6.
For the simulationist, makes it hard to justify putting several violent outcomes on 2d6 tables every single time Travellers do anything.

My point for the OP question is that it doesn't need to be on the tables unless you want it to be.

I don't know where people are getting this 2d6 number, the hijack roll in CT is 18 on 3d6.

Ok, that's fine, YTU and all.

But.

I would caution that we are not running a simulation here, this is an entertainment, and as such people are much more interested in trouble and adventure and not the greater probability of RL fraud crimes and liability lawsuits.

 

[epicenter00]

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that such can not happen. Just saying what are the odds?

I understand how you feel.

But when you look at the OTU, it's definitely not a safe place where people stick to regulations and everything is designed to be as safe as possible:

This is, after all, the universe where the Imperium simply shrugs its shoulders at a perfectly legal death lottery of a space travel system; low berth travel. How this criminally hazardous system of travel could be legal outside of some do-or-die emergency situation in any possible universe inhabited by humane people is simply inconceivable to me; the death rate on low berths is so high that livestock transporters would not accept a loss rate that high for livestock (eg; it is not even fit for meat animals). How it is acceptable for human beings in the TU just boggles the mind and really rightfully is a place where RPGers can point at the TU and fans and have a good belly laugh at us. I hope Marc finally changes it in T5. But regardless, it is what it is at the moment.

The acceptance of low berth deathrates suggests to me that the Imperial universe is kinda fatalistic. There's a lot of shoulder shrugging and acceptance of "fate" (or "luck" or whatever) - a feeling of "well that's just the way it is." I can easily imagine space travel being pretty shady in a lot of the Imperium. And while it's something you imagine happening in some "frontier" of the Imperium near some border, I think it's actually more likely to happen in some route between two high population worlds 1-3 jumps from each other with A-class starports. Worlds like that would probably look like something from Star Wars prequels with hundreds, even thousands of ships making the transit between the worlds, so many ships, with travel between the two being so casual...

 

[DavidMS]

The classic roll for hijacking attempts is 3d6, 18 only. So, way higher then the point Space Lloyd's of Regina would have kittens, but lower then the above.

Of course, we have a universe where local garbage scows are packing missiles. Big risks big reward and all that.

Keep in mind that's Hijacking Attempt. It may mean that the Hijackers get scared off by passive or active security and decide not to go though with the plan. The crew many not even detect the attempt. Or the attempt is amateurish and fails badly. ...Or the crew locates the passenger's hidden weapons and locks them up for the voyage duration. ...Or the Hijackers decide to abort plans for some unspecified reason.. Finally, how many free trader crews will report the attempted hijacking when its far easier to space the offenders while in jump and make something up for the ship's logs involving hallucinogens and the airlock?

 

[Selandia]

I'd say that the adventurous part is not the robbing/enslaving of harmless passengers, but dealing with the organized crime predators (fences and slavers and transponders trafikers and money launderers) that you need to deal with if you want to make it an ongoing adventure rather than a once in a lifetime hit

"I roll a spacer, get out of service with 10K cr and a ship share, purchase a free trader on mortgage, suck in a high value freight with a discount fare, pick as many passengers as possibles, simulate a miss jump, sell the lot to honest pirate that advertize in startown, and retire."

Possible or not, not much of an adventure IMHO

Of course, your group may want to play: winner is the one that kills all other players and get away with all the loots for his/her caracther.

have fun

Selandia

 

[kilemall]

Keep in mind that's Hijacking Attempt. It may mean that the Hijackers get scared off by passive or active security and decide not to go though with the plan. The crew many not even detect the attempt. Or the attempt is amateurish and fails badly. ...Or the crew locates the passenger's hidden weapons and locks them up for the voyage duration. ...Or the Hijackers decide to abort plans for some unspecified reason.. Finally, how many free trader crews will report the attempted hijacking when its far easier to space the offenders while in jump and make something up for the ship's logs involving hallucinogens and the airlock?

Oh sure, the hijack attempt is that, an attempt. Certainly the same can be true for the proposed kidnapping krew.

And the reverse could work out- the Gentlemen Trader turns the tables and has himself a starship for his effort and preparation.

 

[kilemall]

I'd say that the adventurous part is not the robbing/enslaving of harmless passengers, but dealing with the organized crime predators (fences and slavers and transponders trafikers and money launderers) that you need to deal with if you want to make it an ongoing adventure rather than a once in a lifetime hit

"I roll a spacer, get out of service with 10K cr and a ship share, purchase a free trader on mortgage, suck in a high value freight with a discount fare, pick as many passengers as possibles, simulate a miss jump, sell the lot to honest pirate that advertize in startown, and retire."

Possible or not, not much of an adventure IMHO

Of course, your group may want to play: winner is the one that kills all other players and get away with all the loots for his/her caracther.

have fun

Selandia

There is room for both- the one-shot adventure AND the kidnapper modus operandi mastermind who cannot walk away from the Next Big Score.

 

[Chris Barlow]

I understand how you feel.

But when you look at the OTU, it's definitely not a safe place where people stick to regulations and everything is designed to be as safe as possible:

This is, after all, the universe where the Imperium simply shrugs its shoulders at a perfectly legal death lottery of a space travel system; low berth travel. How this criminally hazardous system of travel could be legal outside of some do-or-die emergency situation in any possible universe inhabited by humane people is simply inconceivable to me; the death rate on low berths is so high that livestock transporters would not accept a loss rate that high for livestock (eg; it is not even fit for meat animals). How it is acceptable for human beings in the TU just boggles the mind and really rightfully is a place where RPGers can point at the TU and fans and have a good belly laugh at us. I hope Marc finally changes it in T5. But regardless, it is what it is at the moment.

The acceptance of low berth deathrates suggests to me that the Imperial universe is kinda fatalistic. There's a lot of shoulder shrugging and acceptance of "fate" (or "luck" or whatever) - a feeling of "well that's just the way it is." I can easily imagine space travel being pretty shady in a lot of the Imperium. And while it's something you imagine happening in some "frontier" of the Imperium near some border, I think it's actually more likely to happen in some route between two high population worlds 1-3 jumps from each other with A-class starports. Worlds like that would probably look like something from Star Wars prequels with hundreds, even thousands of ships making the transit between the worlds, so many ships, with travel between the two being so casual...

The high low berth death rates are one of the areas of the Traveller rules I changed in MTU. The original rules say in effect even at TL 15 a technology developed to cope with pre jump drive slower than light ships have not improved in survival rates even though the Third Imperium has frozen watches on many of its ships?

 

[Selandia]

The high low berth death rates are one of the areas of the Traveller rules I changed in MTU. The original rules say in effect even at TL 15 a technology developed to cope with pre jump drive slower than light ships have not improved in survival rates even though the Third Imperium has frozen watches on many of its ships?

Correct, the frozen watches suppose much better rate of survival is possible.

Then, the basic roll is what it is and do testifies to a universe where life is worth little. Yes no cattle owner would be in business at that rate of losses (unless shiping live cattle provide a very substantial margin so soak up the losses), but unless the hapless people shipping out low berths are slaves or indentured servants, they are not a cargo cherished by a surviving owner armed with lawyers, but just meat for "coyotes" (or whatever the name of those people is in the TI).

IMTU, regular liners whose clientele is suceptible to survival reputation use high efficiency, starport based, subcontractor for LB maintenance service and Revival medical assistance service.

A un modifiec failure roll is an "accident roll" if applying an Eng DM 3 would have sufficed to prevent the accident: it did not happen; if the roll is so bad that it defeat the target & Eng DM, then apply the Med DM , if you survive: an "harmless" incident happen (-1 to a random physical characteristic for a month); if it still a fail, then you go to hospital and your survival is then a matter of what the ref consider available (at TL3, class E, the witch doctor will have a good snake oïl, - a mixture of brandy and cocaine that either kills the patient or make him feel highly fine- :devil. If you had an adverse mod for low endurance, I would say you probably die anyway

have fun

Selandia

 

[kilemall]

The way I visualize LB is more like Aliens sleeper pods, with the chance for taking 1-2D damage instead of death if something goes wrong(which makes kids more vulnerable and thus people more likely to pay high passage for them). Check for damage during freezing and again during waking, so it can get serious if you didn't have medics handling it on both ends.

Big hits on low berth ticket sales for ships that lose passengers. Word gets around.

The more dangerous stuff happens if the ship lost power and the LB has been on low battery/hibernation mode for years, so you can still get Planet of the Apes-type problems but it's a little more understandable.