TL-13 long range scout ship

[Outsider]

Hi folks,

I'm currently playing with ideas for a long range scout ship, designed specifically to forge deep into the stars to follow up a lead that might lead to first contact with a race about which *very* little is known. I'm using CT rules (with a few smudges here and there) but am happy to juggle designs from other versions of Traveller.

I'm looking at two different design principles; smallest hull possible so that multiples can be built to scout, and largest hull possible to make the most of self-sufficiency and give it decent weaponry in case it receives an unfriendly reception. Even at first glance it's obvious that a 100 ton hull isn't big enough to hold it all, so I'm looking at the 200-400 range, possibly 600.

Are there any existing designs out there that roughly fit the following criteria? It's always interesting to see what other GMs/players have come up with.

Drive/power-plant Q maximum (max permitted for TL-13).
Jump-6 ideally, jump-5 acceptable for a 600 tonner.
Manoeuvre rating - not of vital importance, although 2G would be preferable to 1G.
High fuel load.
Low-ish cargo space - but enough to carry plenty of consumables for the crew.
As small a crew as possible, to keep the need to carry supplies to a minimum.
Streamlined hull so it can refuel at gas giants.
Turrets, in case the first contact goes bad. (Humans are so paranoid aren't they?)
Low berths or emergency low berths in case of trouble.
20-ton launch if space permits (possibly fitting the low berths in the launch as a life-boat, not sure yet).

I'm still juggling ideas for this, but if someone has already invented the wheel, so much the better. Also, comments are invited as to the merits of the different design principles.

Cheers,
A

 

[Andrew Boulton]

TL13 limits you to J4.

 

[Jame]

Not under Book 2 rules.

I may take up this design challenge!

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Jame:
Not under Book 2 rules.

Book 2 rules are simplified for the purpose of game play and does not accurately reflect reality in this case.


Hans

 

[Outsider]

Regardless of the Book 2 rules, it looks like jump-4 is going to be the longest practical range that can be achieved while fitting everything into the hull with a TL13 cap...! (J-5 looks technically possible, but at the cost of sacrificing extra fuel and cargo space.)

 

[atpollard]

Free advice (and worth every penny)

:

Small Ship: In CT, a hull of 199 dTons or less can be operated by a crew of 1, so a 150 or 180 dTon small scout might have advantages.

Scouts require long range but not necessarily a high jump speed. A ship capable of 6 x Jump 1 would require the same fuel but a lot less Jump Drive and Power Plant than a 1 x Jump 6 ship. Both ships can travel 6 parsecs without refueling. Just think about the variations if space turns up a little too tight.

 

[Outsider]

Very good point about maximising range by using lots of short jumps, and actually one that's quite in keeping with MTU. I'd rather got fixed on the idea that a scout ship should have a long individual jump range.

So here's first draft of the Cook-class explorer...

TL-13 400ton streamlined hull
Jump-drive C
Man-drive C
Powerplant C (giving 1G acceleration & Jump-1 range)
260 ton fuel tank (6x Jump-1 and 8 weeks of standard operation)
Fuel scoops (integral from choosing a streamlined hull)
4 staterooms (the sole luxury, a full-size stateroom for each crew member - they're going to be stuck together for quite a while...)
40 tons of cargo (should be plenty to keep them fed for a while)
4 turrets/4 tons devoted to fire control (weapons to be decided later)
Model 4 computer (much more than the minimum needed, but I see explorer ships requiring lots of processing power)
Crew of four (pilot, navigator, engineer, mission specialist)
20-ton launch (haven't considered the fitting of this, beyond that it probably has a decent computer, extra fuel and low berths fitted)
And 1 ton of waste space...

16 months to construct, costs 200.4 MCr

(NB: I could have got away with class B drive units, but fitting C-class means there's reserve capability in case of damage/breakdowns.)

 

[Plankowner]

If you have 4 turrets, you need Gunners.

Also, if this really is a long-range mission, maybe you have some Low Berths for the Science team? When the Science Team is brought out, the crew doubles up so you would room for 8.

 

[Outsider]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
If you have 4 turrets, you need Gunners.

Is it as simple as that? From the printing of the rules I have, it seems that gunners are optional; having them makes your turrets much more accurate, but they can fire under computer targeting without a gunner (and thus without the bonus from the gunner's skill).

Citing:
"One gunner may be hired per turret on a ship." (My italics.)

Running a computer with the Target program, and optionally Predict, Multi-target, Launch would permit the computer to operate the turrets at a basic (i.e. no +DMs) level. Adding Return fire would seem to definitely make this possible.

I can see it being a grey area in the rules. I realise the "IMTU" option could be used, but I genuinely get the impression (at least, from the books I have) that gunners significantly improve turret accuracy, but aren't essential for the turret's operation. A bit of controversy...!

Originally posted by Plankowner:
maybe you have some Low Berths for the Science team?

Nice idea. I like it. Not sure the highly trained and valuable science crew would agree so readily though!

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Outsider:
From the printing of the rules I have, it seems that gunners are optional; having them makes your turrets much more accurate, but they can fire under computer targeting without a gunner (and thus without the bonus from the gunner's skill).

Citing:
"One gunner may be hired per turret on a ship." (My italics.)

Running a computer with the Target program, and optionally Predict, Multi-target, Launch would permit the computer to operate the turrets at a basic (i.e. no +DMs) level. Adding Return fire would seem to definitely make this possible.

High Guard allows the pilot of a small craft to operate one weapon and one sandcaster (or two sandcasters) in addition to piloting the craft. You could easily house-rule that this works for starships as well and let the pilot fire one turret by remote-control from the bridge.

Also, HG requires only one gunner for battery; if all the turrets are fired as one battery, you only need one gunner. Alternatively, you could rule that the computer could control the actual firing of turrets; you only need one tactical officer on the bridge to coordinate the fire (i.e. select targets etc) no matter how the turrets are organized.

 

[The Oz]

Here's a possible vessel, designed in HG using Andrew's HGS software (thanks, Andrew!).

Ship: Endeavour
Class: LRS-13
Type: Explorer
Architect: Osmanski
Tech Level: 13
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">USP
XL-4642442-030000-20002-0 MCr 303.970 400 Tons
Bat Bear 4 4 4 Crew: 15
Bat 4 4 4 TL: 13</pre>[/QUOTE]Cargo: 23.000 Fuel: 176.000 EP: 16.000 Agility: 2
Craft: 1 x 20T Gig
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 2.840 Cost in Quantity: MCr 247.176


Detailed Description

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 5,600.000 cubic meters, Flattened Sphere Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 3 Engineers, Medic, 4 Gunners, 2 Flight Crew, 3 Science Crew

ENGINEERING
Jump-4, 2G Manuever, Power plant-4, 16.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/4 Computer

HARDPOINTS
4 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Mixed Turrets each with: 1 Beam Laser (Factor-2), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-2), 1 Sandcaster (Factor-3).

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Gig (Crew of 2, Cost of MCr 20.000)

FUEL
176.000 Tons Fuel (4 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
15.0 Staterooms, 23.000 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
1 Planetary Lab (4.000 tons, Crew 1, Cost MCr 4.000), 1 Astro Lab (4.000 tons, Crew 1, Cost MCr 4.000), 1 Xeno Lab (4.000 tons, Crew 1, Cost MCr 4.000), 1 Machine Shop (4.000 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 4.000)

COST
MCr 286.810 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 2.840), MCr 227.176 in Quantity, plus MCr 20.000 of Carried

Craft

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Outsider:
Very good point about maximising range by using lots of short jumps, and actually one that's quite in keeping with MTU. I'd rather got fixed on the idea that a scout ship should have a long individual jump range.

So here's first draft of the Cook-class explorer...

<snippage>

Yeah, those Q-drives will eat up a lot of displacement otherwise.

You end up with something like:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">drives-Q 155 (J-5, M-5, P-5)
fuel 350 (five pscs & four wks)
bridge 20
comp/5 5
fire ctrl 6 (six triple turrets; 4 w/pulse, 2 w/beam)
13 states 52 (p, n, 4e, m, 6g; sngl occ)
3 emer low 3
2 low 1
cgo/craft 8 (Gcarrier, typically)
----
600 dt, streamlined, military


Around MCr450 in quantity, TL13...</pre>[/QUOTE]Which is useless for exploration.

Exploration cruisers are begging for lots of carried craft, so you want to maximize hold space.

Plus, as you may have realized, it's hard to do J-6 under B2 at less than TL15, HG2 notwithstanding.

I'd want to go up to 600 tons at least, to have plenty of room; powerplant fuel really becomes less of a burden at that point, and you can still do J-3 or even J-4 (or 2 x J-2) with lots of payload capacity left over.

 

[BetterThanLife]

The Avenger Golden Age Starships 1. Fast Courier looks close to your specs. Though it is only Jump-3. 200 tons crew of 2-3 plus gunners. It carries a 20 ton launch to minimize risk to the ship for contact missions. It is a great design. In theory, under T20 rules it, only needs a crew of 1. It is located here.

 

[flykiller]

this one done in HG2.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">----------------------------------------------------------------------

Recon Scout, Miikaa-class

The Miikaa has a distinguished history with the Imperial Scout Service
and though showing its age it remains the primary long-range scout
vessel. Its over-manning and single cabins make it a favorite among
personnel, its heavy offensive and defensive armament has rescued many
ships from bad situations, and its two gig mounts can carry either
transport or cargo modules for extra flexibility in assignments.

The power plant, under-utilized during maneuver ops, generates enough
energy points to double-fire both laser batteries.

"Miikaa" was the personal name of the first Vilani scout pilot.

Tech 13, 600 dtons, conical, streamlined

MANNING
Captain, 2 pilots, 2 navigators, medic, 8 engineers (5 required),
6 gunners (4 required), 4 mission specialists
COMPUTER
Model 7 (7 energy points required)
ENGINEERING
Jump 4 (24 energy points required for jump 4)
Maneuver 2 (12 energy points required for agility 2)
Power Plant (31 energy points generated)
Fuel Purifier
FUEL TANKAGE CAPACITY
240 dtons (up to 4 parsecs total jump distance)
31 dtons (4 weeks power plant ops)
ENDURANCE CARGO
12 dtons
WEAPONS
2 Factor 4 Beam Laser Batteries (6 energy points required)
2 Gunnery Stations
DEFENSES
2 Factor 5 Sand Caster Batteries (two turrets each battery)
2 Gunnery Stations
4 Magazines (30 sand reloads each)
CREW ACCOMODATIONS
24 Crew Staterooms
1 Damage Control Station
CARRIED CRAFT
2 20 dton Ship's Gigs
2 Air Rafts
CARGO
0
MISCELLANEOUS
-
REMAINING DTONNAGE
3

----------------------------------------------------------------------</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Commander Drax]

Imperialines TJ class vessels make excellent scout cruisers, Tons 2000, M-2g J-6 (decent cargo hold), 10 Turrets, 95 ton shuttle as a subcraft, Crew of 20 etc.

I'm sure you can get hold of a de-fleeted one from Naval Intelligence, if the mission is that important

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Commander Drax:
Imperialines TJ class vessels make excellent scout cruisers, Tons 2000, M-2g J-6 (decent cargo hold), 10 Turrets, 95 ton shuttle as a subcraft, Crew of 20 etc.

Except that the TJs use those big TL15 drives (drives-Z), which puts them out of reach for the desired application.

If going that route, however, I'd recommend looking at a Zhodani Council Cruiser (from their Alien Module): 2000 dtons, J-4(+2), carries a 200-dton J-3 Courier for side trips, and is specifically designed for Core Expeditions. Plus, using j-drive-Y and p-plant-Y, it's technically a TL15 design, which is very respectable engineering for what's supposed to be a TL14 culture.

More practically, there's the spec of a Hiver Embassy Ship (from their Alien Module): 600 dtons, J-3, M-1, maybe TL11, and about 1/3 of displacement available for payload... again, specifically designed for long-range ops. Covert ops, usually, but it's easy-enough to repurpose to benign scouting.

 

[Outsider]

I think something major must have changed in starship design post CT. The fuel required for jumps takes up so much room that almost every design is limited to enough fuel for one jump, very occasionally two. The design I'm after is using (relatively) low TL to make a long range ship, and for the role I'm looking for, Jump-5 or Jump-6 would be needed (either in one go, or in smaller steps, as suggested). For a ship exploring uncharted space, the ability to jump around according to where suitable fuel sources are is vital...

I've tried working on varies Jump-2 capable ships, but just can't get the tankage necessary for extended operations. (Also, double M-drive fuel is necessary at a minimum, to maintain operations for the six weeks or so or jumping about.)

At the moment, the basic concept of a 400 tonner with lots of fuel for Jump-1s seems like the most viable option. A bigger hull would be the ideal solution for range, but the TL cap on the drives restricts that...

Once I've decided on the changes, an updated design will follow.

(By the way... the Hiver HE-class embassy ship in the Hiver module I have is a 800-ton Jump-2 affair, and the HL Hiver lab-ship is a 600-ton Jump-3 one - however both can only manage one jump before needing to refuel.)

And annoyingly... I can't find my copy of High Guard so I'm limited to the old school stuff!

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Outsider:
(By the way... the Hiver HE-class embassy ship in the Hiver module I have is a 800-ton Jump-2 affair, and the HL Hiver lab-ship is a 600-ton Jump-3 one - however both can only manage one jump before needing to refuel.)

I must have meant the Hiver Research Cruiser; that's the 600-dtonner now that I wrack my brain...

Since you're going to have to commit to 60% of displacement for jump fuel, it's probably most efficient to go with the largest hull size you can fit the highest-tech drives into. Bridge (below 1000 dtons) and powerplant fuel being non-scaling components and all that...

For the drives-Q, you can get level-3 performance out of a 1000-dton hull, and you should still have at least 100 dtons left over after 6 parsecs of j-fuel, 4 weeks of m-fuel, drives, crew, bridge, computer, and weapons are fitted... that would give you room for a couple of cutters (with "survey modules" as per the Donosev class) or similar.

 

[flykiller]

At the moment, the basic concept of a 400 tonner with lots of fuel for Jump-1s seems like the most viable option.

crossing 4 parsecs in 4 J1's will require more fuel than a single J4.

 

[Blue Ghost]

And food.