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TL-13 long range scout ship

Having done lots of juggling and tried different ways of squeezing a quart into a pint pot, here's the updated (and larger) version.

(Remember, the old school version of the rules I have means that the same amount of fuel is used to jump one parsec regardless of whether it's a short hop or part of a longer jump.) For the purposes of the campaign I'm currently running, these rules suffice - if there were more vast fleet battles, then I'd opt for something more complicated/better balanced.)

Cook-class explorer

TL-13 streamlined 800-ton hull (Hull is only streamlined to get the fuel scoops really...!)

Jump-drive E
Man-drive E
Powerplant E
(giving 1G acceleration & Jump-1 range)
(D-class drives would be sufficient, but using E-class gives reserve capability in case of damage/malfunction)
580 ton fuel tank (7x Jump-1 and 8 weeks of standard operation)
Fuel scoops
7 staterooms (as noted previously, given the likely duration of the voyage, the "luxury" of having one room per person is well worth the displacement used)
4 low berths (always handy, and as was suggested, extra crew members could stay in cryo until needed then double up later)
Model 5 computer (much more than the minimum needed, but I see explorer ships requiring lots of processing power)
2 turrets (probably triples with two lasers and one sandcaster each; I'll use a fudged rule to slave the turrets or call them a battery so that they can be operated by a single gunner)
Mission lab/communications area (8 tons devoted to the mission speciality - to be centred on analysing/deciphering/decrypting signals and transmissions, since if contact is achieved there will be no common language)
30-ton ship's boat (the 6G acceleration is well worth the extra 10tons of displacement. Probably fitted with low/emergency low berths in one section, in case of life-boat use. Extra fuel. Rest of space with acceleration couches and sensors.)
70 tons of cargo space (as per the original criteria, a big stash of consumables is vital)
Crew of seven (pilot, navigator, two engineers, gunner, two mission specialists) (and in all likelihood the gunner is more likely to be a cross-trained third engineer or mission specialist)

28 months to construct, costs 342.9 MCr

Finding what appears to be the optimum size for this involved as much trial-and-error as working the design to fit the concept I had. Hull sizes over 1000t required a command crew of five, which means more staterooms. The less crew, the less supplies need to be carried. I could have gone to a 1000 or 2000 ton hull (or even 3000 if I was prepared to forego having any level of failsafe in the drives; not a good idea for such I mission I felt). The amount of fuel carried, as a percentage of displacement, wasn't any better for the larger ships, so there seemed no advantage in the larger hulls.
Additionally, I wanted to keep the hull as small as possible for reasons of signature detection. While I know such a factor isn't modelled in the CT rules, it makes sense to me that the crew of a small ship would most likely wait quietly, receiving as much wide-band broadcast as possible, recording and analysing it, while trying to remain undetected. Whether the crew returned with their data or made contact would be a matter of policy and circumstance. (Returning with the intel would be a more likely choice, given the option.)

I feel that's a better design than the 400 tonner. I'd have still preferred a longer jump range per jump, but the drive mass and fuel requirements prohibit the range needed at the current TL of MTU.
Comments invited...
 
Originally posted by Outsider:
560 ton fuel tank (7x Jump-1 and 8 weeks of standard operation)
You're 20 dtons light on fuel; you'll need 580 if you want 8 weeks' on the powerplant plus 70%...

My only other concern is that this thing is going to take a very long time to get anywhere; so long that by the time you arrive at a distant destination, you'll need to start back almost immediately to get home in time for maintenance. It would probably behoove you then to set aside some hold space for supplies to perform the yearly overhaul in the field, as per TCS (as well as carrying extra life support replenishment).
 
Originally posted by boomslang:
You're 20 dtons light on fuel; you'll need 580 if you want 8 weeks' on the powerplant plus 70%...

It would probably behoove you then to set aside some hold space for supplies to perform the yearly overhaul in the field, as per TCS (as well as carrying extra life support replenishment).
Ah, spit. My typo on the tankage; I had allowed 580 tons, just mistyped it (now corrected).

Good point about the spares for maintenance, thanks.
 
Originally posted by Outsider:
Ah, spit. My typo on the tankage; I had allowed 580 tons, just mistyped it (now corrected).

Good point about the spares for maintenance, thanks.
No problem. :D

Also, since you're committed to the Jump-1 performance, you technically only need 90 dtons of your fuel package in integral tanks. I'd consider taking the hold from 100 dtons up to 590 dtons, and then kitting it out with a series of 80-dton collapsing tanks (plus a 10-dtonner for the extra powerplant fuel), and having the rest available for craft, spares, or what have you on a mission-by-mission basis.

In addition, given the way B2 damage is taken , you might want to go on up to a p-plant-F, for two reasons: 1) it lets you take a powerplant hit without also taking the m-drive and j-drive immediately offline, and 2) it lets you use Double Fire in a pinch.

And lastly, since you're going to lug all that extra computer factor around, you might consider fitting some Solomani-style fixed weapons mounts for good measure; they won't take up any extra displacement nor require any crew (other than perhaps loaders), but might just come in handy some day...
 
Originally posted by Outsider:
Finding what appears to be the optimum size for this involved as much trial-and-error as working the design to fit the concept I had. Hull sizes over 1000t required a command crew of five, which means more staterooms. The less crew, the less supplies need to be carried.
You're taking a radically different approach to this than I did when I designed a long-range scout cruiser for Milieu 0. And I'm not just talking about my reluctance to touch Book 2 rules with a ten foot pole. (I used QSDS1.5 (the Quick Ship Design System for T4) as having the best available combination of traditional Traveller ship design features and realism (Think High Guard with realistic power plant fuel consumption rates)).

I wanted a ship capable of going 30 or 40 parsecs away from its home base and doing some surveying when it got there before having to return for maintenance. So jump was the highest available (J3) in order to get the ship to its area of operation with enough time to do some work before they had to head home, and the ship was big enough to carry a 100T jump-capable 'lifeboat'. Jump fuel was 40%, with a doctrine of never using the last 10% if at all avoidable.

Far from keeping the crew down, I added 25% over standard crew strength in order to have some 'spares', since it would be operating far from its base with no way to get a replacement astrogator if one got the Purple Polka-dot Plague.


Hans
 
Originally posted by flykiller:
Crossing 4 parsecs in 4 J1's will require more fuel than a single J4.
Is this another of those Book 2 rules? Or MT? Otherwise, four jump-1s will require 4*10%, the same 40% one jump-4 will require.


Hans
 
Originally posted by rancke:
(I used QSDS1.5 (the Quick Ship Design System for T4) as having the best available combination of traditional Traveller ship design features and realism
I don't have T4, only CT (and I can't find my High Guard!), but QSDS does sound intriguing. I like playing around with ship designs and realise that 'vanilla' CT ship construction rules are somewhat lacking...

Q1. Is QSDS available for a Windows OS, or just Mac?
Q2. If there is a Windows version, does anyone know where I can download a demo? (I've given the net a trawl and come up with a blank.)

Thanks.

(PS... If I could give the ship a longer individual jump range, I'd definitely prefer to!)
 
Originally posted by Outsider:
QSDS does sound intriguing. I like playing around with ship designs and realise that 'vanilla' CT ship construction rules are somewhat lacking...
Let me hasten to add that QSDS has its own unique features, in the sense of rules that differ from every other Traveller ship design system. One that I hadn't noticed until recently is that the rules for carrying subcraft are extremely space-demanding.

As an aside, it seems that every Traveller version has rules that contradict most of the other versions. CT has those ridiculous power plant fuel consumption rates. MT has jump drive fuel consumption that is at odds with every other version. TNE has HePlAr (or however it is you spell it). GT has the 20% rule. I can't recall anything particularly egregious for T20 offhand, but no doubt there's something. I've sometimes wanted to sit down and figure out how things 'really' work in the one and only Official Traveller Universe (Starting from the assumption that there is one, and only one, truth). For example, every version but MT has jump fuel at 10% per jump number, so that, rather than MT's percentages, would be true. Only TNE uses chemical rockets, so that's wrong. Only GT deducts 20% of effective volume for streamlining, so that's wrong, CT's power plant fuel consumption is blatantly ridiculous, so that's wrong, etc. etc.

Never got around to doing anything about it, though.
Q1. Is QSDS available for a Windows OS, or just Mac?
Q2. If there is a Windows version, does anyone know where I can download a demo? (I've given the net a trawl and come up with a blank.)
A google for "Quick Ship Design System" will give you a few false leads, but one of the top ten will direct you to the BITS site (http://www.bits.org.uk/), where you can find a free pdf among the game rules.

Only paper and pencil, I'm afraid, but the complexity is roughly the same as High Guard, so that's not really a problem.


Hans
 
Have you thought about having dual Powerplants/Jump Dives?

I remember reading somewhere a MTU where they were allowed to have two Jump1 drives combine for Jump2 capability. This also gives you some nice redundancy for those long First Contact missions.

I believe the concept was discussed along with slurried Hydrogen among other tweaks to the OTU.
 
Originally posted by chshrkt:
Have you thought about having dual Powerplants/Jump Dives?
Actually, yes. In my very non-OTU campaign, the multiple drive rules (Beyond Book 2, by Ken Pick) fit right in... However, they're really aimed at improving the performance of large ships with tonnage spare and don't give any advantage to more moderate hull sizes. I've allowed for a small degree of redundancy by fitting larger capacity drives than necessary (granted CT drive failure doesn't work quite that way, but it's near enough for me...).

If it's another set of CT rule modifications that you're referring to then I don't think I've seen it. Certainly slurried hydrogen doesn't sound familiar (to me it sounds reminiscent of hydrogen peroxide rocket fuel slurried with coal dust, which might not be ideal to feed into your fusion reactor!).
 
My Googlefu is failing me at the moment, but from what I remember, creating Slurried Hydrogen fuel involved cooling it beyond liquid state to a slushy state, which would allow you to carry more in the same volume of tankage.

It did also require the use of larger fuel purifiers to supercool the H2 enough.

Yes, I agree, putting coal dust through a fusion reactor is not high on my list of "Things to do before I turn 50". :D

<edit>Ha! I just found it: http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/densefuel.html I can't believe I did not think to check Freelance Traveller when I first posted. :/ </edit
 
I think that water has a higher hydrogen fuel density than slurried hydrogen. Water is easily separated with electrolysis. Water has Oxygen as a waste product. So, fill those extra tanks with water and refine it after each jump to refill the main tank.
 
Originally posted by atpollard:
I think that water has a higher hydrogen fuel density than slurried hydrogen. Water is easily separated with electrolysis. Water has Oxygen as a waste product. So, fill those extra tanks with water and refine it after each jump to refill the main tank.
Hmm, not sure how that works. H2O versus H3? (I am assuming it is actually deuterium that is used in the power plant)
 
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Crossing 4 parsecs in 4 J1's will require more fuel than a single J4.
Is this another of those Book 2 rules? Or MT? Otherwise, four jump-1s will require 4*10%, the same 40% one jump-4 will require.</font>[/QUOTE]the jump fuel requirement is the same, but the power plant will be running four times longer to go the same distance.
 
Hi !

Yep. Nature is strange sometimes.
Taking water provides around 111 kg Hydrogen per m³.
Pure heavy water D2O would provide 220 kg Deuterium.
LHyd only 70 kg per m³.

Why just don't hold water in the tanks still is a good question, as it appears much more easy and efficient at the first glance.
There might be the considerable weight factor (impact on ships agility), or perhaps the problematic property to become a higher volume solid if exposed to lower temperatures. Thats essentially bad in an engineering environment, which usually is pretty cold (space).....but in fact those would be no real showstoppers.

Perhaps thats just another riddle...

regards,

TE
 
One limitation on water is that the RULES state that the ship runs on the refined Hydrogen in the fuel tank, so the water tankage would be limited to the EXCESS fuel tankage (like that SECOND jump without refueling). Still usefull, but not a complete replacement for Liquid Hydrogen.
 
For what it may be worth, the rules for how fuel works in my MTU are...

Fuel loaded up is water. Refined fuel has a higher percentage of deuterium in it. (I also include super-refined fuel, which has an even higher percentage, but that's not important right now.)

The on-board fuel systems extract the deuterium from the water to fire into the fusion reactor, and the rest of the "normal" water is used in the heat exchanger. Oxygen given off from the deuterium filtration is syphoned into spare liquid oxygen tanks and later combined with nitrogen for the crew's atmosphere. Obviously filtration and recycling systems are used to extend the life of the atmosphere in the ship.

So, at least to my not very chemically trained mind, it works in the Traveller premise of loading up with water for fuel, or refined fuel, and the enormous amount of fuel needed for the reactors. (Unfortunately I haven't found the anticipated fuel consumption for a fusion reactor, although it would be nice to know!)

And I know I have seen somewhere in the CT books I have references to the fuel being water, not liquid hydrogen. I've also seen references to liquid hydrogen, so I suspect it's just an inconsistency in the early books that's lead to a grey area.
 
Originally posted by chshrkt:
(I am assuming it is actually deuterium that is used in the power plant)
A common assumption, but not necessarily correct. The typical Fusion Power Plant can run on unrefined hydrogen skimmed from the atmosphere of a gas giant without a purifier (jump drives require refined hydrogen). I doubt that deuterium is a substantial component in the atmosphere of a gas giant. Simple H-H fusion would seem the most likely candidate.
 
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