TL=8 Batteries

[Baroun Tardis]

The real benefit of this kind of battery is not that it can go 1000 miles, it's that you can go 330 miles with 1/3rd less battery in the car. Less weight, better dynamics, "maybe" lower cost.

Weight is a real issue with modern electric vehicles.

It's even better than that: much of the EV weight is battery. 1/3 the battery removes enough weight you're going to get much more than 1/3 the range.

 

[BlackBat242]

A conventional battery has a permanent anode. An anode-free battery has a current collector instead, and as the battery is charging, (usually) lithium is electroplated onto the current collector; when the charging is complete, the lithium on the current collector acts as the battery’s anode. In essence, an anode-free battery could be more accurately described as a permanent-anode-free battery.

OK, that makes much more sense.

 

[Spinward Flow]

It's even better than that: much of the EV weight is battery. 1/3 the battery removes enough weight you're going to get much more than 1/3 the range.

Agreed.
Just like in aerospace, Weight Is The Enemy Of Performance (in this case, range).

By removing weight in the battery pack, you reduce the need for weight elsewhere in the vehicle, creating a an overall "virtuous cascade" of factors when integrated together into the final product.

• Lighter battery pack needed means
• Lighter chassis frame needed means
• Lighter suspension system needed means
• Lighter drive motors needed means
• Lighter electrical harnesses needed means

... and so on and so forth ...

This is where Step Changes in underlying technologies become so important ... like the difference between lead-acid battery power densities to lithium-ion battery power densities, welded stamped steel to aluminum casting to thixomolded magnesium casting, 12v to 48v enabling etherloop communication and drive-by-wire, octovalve heat pump for environmental control and thermal management of battery systems putting waste heat to useful work and increase efficiency ... and on and on and on ...

Keep piling on all the modifications and pretty soon (just a few years!) you'll have a product that is more than 50% "new" under the hood, even if it looks almost exactly the same from the outside, simply because the ENGINEERING and systems integration that goes into making the final product have advanced in so many synergistic ways across a whole range of factors that yield the final performance of the product.

By improving the "power density of the power plant" it becomes possible to "go farther with less" (so to speak) which then is not only cheaper to build but also more efficient in doing so, making the product cheaper to own and maintain.

 

[whartung]

Actually, thats curious. Do you gain as much regenerative braking recharge on the lighter vehicle?

I'm going to have to say it balances out, and the heavier vehicle are a net loser on that just due to friction and entropy in the process.

That's just a guess though.

 

[Spinward Flow]

A conventional battery has a permanent anode. An anode-free battery has a current collector instead, and as the battery is charging, (usually) lithium is electroplated onto the current collector; when the charging is complete, the lithium on the current collector acts as the battery’s anode. In essence, an anode-free battery could be more accurately described as a permanent-anode-free battery.

I wonder ...

Take it away, Electric Viking!

 

[Spinward Flow]

Meanwhile, over in Thermal Battery technology land ...

 

[Kakistocrat]

Take it away, Electric Viking!

It sounds like a promising approach. I wonder how the retail cost of an aqueous Mg-ion 12 V car battery would compare to that of a traditional lead-acid one. (It seems as though increasing the aqueous Mg-ion energy density would still be needed to allow robust competition with Li-ion batteries in smartphones, laptop computers, etc.)

 

[Spinward Flow]

And I just stumbled across this video by Two Bit da Vinci on the topic of zinc batteries.

Lithium Ion
Sodium Ion
Manganese
Zinc
Iron
Aluminum

There is a LOT of R&D getting poured into batteries these days!
Bring on the TL=8 battery breakthroughs!

 

[kilemall]

TL8 batteries means laser carbines are not far behind.

 

[Spinward Flow]

 

[Spinward Flow]

CT Striker 4, p10 Battery Table
TL=8 . 1.25 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg

1,250,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 347.222 watt-hours per kg

CT Striker 4, p10 Battery Table

• TL=9 . 2.25 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg
  2,250,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 625 watt-hours per kg
• TL=10 . 3 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg
  3,000,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 833.333 watt-hours per kg

 

[Spinward Flow]

 

[Spinward Flow]

CT Striker 4, p10 Battery Table
TL=8 . 1.25 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg
TL=9 . 2.25 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg

1,250,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 347.222 watt-hours per kg
2,250,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 625 watt-hours per kg

500 watt-hours per kilogram

 

[whartung]

Now I just need another 50% efficiency on my solar panels, and roll one of those suckers into replace my current batteries.

When that happens, I'll probably pony up for the electric water heater and heat pump HVAC.

 

[Marcatlas]

Keeping our options, open.

Cheap and clean energy generation, even if you have to compromise with internal combustion, to leverage optimum efficiency.

Long term storage.

Thorium power plants.

Not sure about storage as we don't have any real good long term storage right now.

 

[Spinward Flow]

 

[Enoki]

Well, that is one variant that's safe...

 

[Spinward Flow]

 

[Spinward Flow]

CT Striker 4, p10 Battery Table
TL=8 . 1.25 megawatt-seconds per kg, 1 liter per kg

1,250,000 watt-seconds per kg / 3600 seconds = 347.222 watt-hours per kg

Spoiler Alert (5m 21s): 354 Wh/kg ... a +30% energy density increase over current 4680 cells (theoretically).

 

[warwizard]

I have seen videos touting a graphene based electrode with better charging rate, the charging rate of perhaps charging an EV in 3 to 10 minutes. Also the video covered perhaps 5 different battery techs currently in production stage or development stages that use Al instead of Li. All sorts of improvements. The point of mentioning this is that assumming that batteries of the future will be using Li Co Ni and other rare , expensive or dangerous materials after making batteries for in some cases 3000 years seems rather implausible. I think you may have specialization High energy density batteries for mass limited applications, Fast charging times for devices needed by humans, cheap batteries made from common non-metalic materials that do not require high energy density. Pick and choose the features you need. I still think a large kenetic round through your high energy density power pack makes things go BOOM, but the same round hitting your pile of hot sand? <shrugs>