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TNE timeline bad bad, but Third Imperium too static

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:

I would be interested to hear how other people view the nobility.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMTU, the nobility, at least the landed nobility, generally are pretty much just working stiffs, doing their job, and enjoying the (Pretty good) perks. Democratic reform IMTU gets squished once it leaves a member world. The nobles in office have real power, and some do abuse it, others ignore it, and a few simply can't handle it, but most do a decent job of providing stability, interstellar commerce, and rule of law to the 3I.

That all being said, the average "Planetary Noble" has the primary starport for a feif. So he's motivated to provide for trade... he gets a share of the handling fees. They on-world power varies immensely outside their feif, but inside it, they aare the sole law besides the imperium.

Promotion by assassination: IMTU, it occassionally happens. But it must be a "One on One" thing, in the official court of the soon-to-be-deceased, with a weapon that was openly worn, and the challenge accepted (think in a manner akin to the end of DUNE), usually under threat of black civil war if not accepted. Most nobles will see the reality, and most of the time, the emperor is armed. But if he accepts, the guards will shoot ANYONE interfering; psionic/hypno conditioning to protect the imperium over it's emperor.

Court functions tend to be big affairs. Seneschales tend to be really powerful, and many dukes have a baron or count as their seneschale. Some knighthoods are sub-infeudations; no baronial or higher imperial title is, but some local sub-infudations carry rank equivalent to an imperial baron.

Nobles constantly make decisions which will affect many lives.It doesn't leave them unaffected; most seem callous towards any single man's plight, but when 20 have the same problem, he's interested.

Also, IMTU, most feifs have affixed to them shares of major corporations. You want an Imperial Baron's licence to operate as a limited corporation indepenant of world laws (say a system wide in a multi-polity system), he gets a 1% share. Cluster wise, the count gets a 1% share. Subsector: the Duke gets 1%. Note this is non-saleable ownership-shares, not a tax. They get a say and a cut. Some of the older feifs have official assets measuring in the GCr range, but the physical feif is a single building. In other cases, some lesser feifs are commercial properties with a limited extrality zone: in one case, i gave a PC noble a feif which consisted of a 25 story apartment building in downtown Regni on Regina. He was a Baron. He had a dueling salon, and local-tax-free rental units; extrality ended at the walls of the building.

Also, IMTU, most worlds will grant permits for 1-3 LL lower weapons to nobles. Not to their entourages, but to imperial nobles only. If he/she/it is enfeofed, their huscarles may be armed on their feif. In the above baron's case, his huscarles were the building security, but they were allowed to act up to one block away from the building.

Now, my PC's went and assassinated both Lucan and the "Real Strephon", and put dulinor on the throne, as he was the best of a bad lot... at least he was honest. So the ZS stayed independant, and the Party once again held earth.... And, by 1150, Brzrk was beggin dulinor for his life. Oh, and Norris came out and fessed up to having taken Branj as a lover.

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-aramis
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Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
 
Heh, I like DonM's discontented, displaced dukes bit. And they're reactionary hawks, as a class. Hmmm. It's a good example of really thinking through the "if this goes on..." in science fiction.

Murph's notion of putting some stress/pressure on the Imperium without tearing it apart is definitely the lines I was thinking along for the longest time. And, what I originally thought the Rebellion was going to be when GDW first came out with it.

Simon Jester's description of his implementation of that idea is really excellent. I may crib it almost wholesale for myself. Found myself thinking of emailing Simon and asking for copies of his game material, even. Very nice job! :->

Phydaux' comment that "you could plop PCs about anywere and they'd have something to do" is spot on. I can't help interjecting that PCs should always be able to give themselves something to do or else one wonders why they are playing. Which thought then goes back to my original post, wherein I pondered the weighty question of whether the ref should be creating a universe to adventure in and moderating the interactions between the player characters and that universe, or should be creating a universe to adventure in and then present the characters with the ref's own adventure plot for each session? My philosophical preference is the former. It is **far** more common among referees and players to choose the latter. Certainly, the former choice requires a lot more preparation and ability to think on your seat from the referee. I, being both lazy and troubled with medical problems, find myself torn between what seems best and most appropriate but harder, or what's easier and more popular but somehow just not...right. Right for me, that is. Each of us has to choose what's right for us, and as someone said above in slightly different context, there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

Ah, Aramis, now I recognize your sig from the TML. We meet again. :-> Yes, your view of the nobility is pretty close to my own. I see them as a true ruling (and governing) class, not a bunch of weaklings who are masters of a house of cards. I rather think Marc's original vision of the nobility regards them as powerful not weak, for those of us who are concerned about author's intent and canon and such. Marc, feel free to jump in anywhere here.

Aramis, I like your specific ideas about succession by assassination, arming nobles, arming their huscarles, etc. At least I like them for providing a properly swashbuckling dash to a role-playing universe. I can't really say that it's anyway to run an airline, lol. If I were a Founding Father of a governmental system in real life, I would actively oppose creating such a possibility.

Be seeing you.

--Laning
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laning:
Heh, I like DonM's discontented, displaced dukes bit. And they're reactionary hawks, as a class. Hmmm. It's a good example of really thinking through the "if this goes on..." in science fiction.

snip

Simon Jester's description of his implementation of that idea is really excellent. I may crib it almost wholesale for myself. Found myself thinking of emailing Simon and asking for copies of his game material, even. Very nice job! :->


Thank you for your compliment, and you are welcome to whatever you find useful. As for my gaming materials, it's all either thin, scratchy notes on notebook paper or simple ad-libbing as we go along. I tend to work out specific "scenes" or "set pieces" and work them in when I feel it might be appropriate. My group of gamers is so adventuresome/independent/random that I can rarely figure out just where they might want to take the game's storyline each game session. So I work up bits that I can just drop in at need. Seems to work fine;they keep coming back each week.

Phydaux' comment that "you could plop PCs about anywere and they'd have something to do" is spot on. I can't help interjecting that PCs should always be able to give themselves something to do or else one wonders why they are playing. Which thought then goes back to my original post, wherein I pondered the weighty question of whether the ref should be creating a universe to adventure in and moderating the interactions between the player characters and that universe, or should be creating a universe to adventure in and then present the characters with the ref's own adventure plot for each session? My philosophical preference is the former. It is **far** more common among referees and players to choose the latter. Certainly, the former choice requires a lot more preparation and ability to think on your seat from the referee. I, being both lazy and troubled with medical problems, find myself torn between what seems best and most appropriate but harder, or what's easier and more popular but somehow just not...right. Right for me, that is. Each of us has to choose what's right for us, and as someone said above in slightly different context, there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

Ah, Aramis, now I recognize your sig from the TML. We meet again. :-> Yes, your view of the nobility is pretty close to my own. I see them as a true ruling (and governing) class, not a bunch of weaklings who are masters of a house of cards. I rather think Marc's original vision of the nobility regards them as powerful not weak, for those of us who are concerned about author's intent and canon and such. Marc, feel free to jump in anywhere here.

Aramis, I like your specific ideas about succession by assassination, arming nobles, arming their huscarles, etc. At least I like them for providing a properly swashbuckling dash to a role-playing universe. I can't really say that it's anyway to run an airline, lol. If I were a Founding Father of a governmental system in real life, I would actively oppose creating such a possibility.

Be seeing you.

--Laning
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The two book series that I use as a basis for how I run my Nobility are David Weber's 'Honor Harrington' books and Lois McMaster Bujold's 'Miles Vorkosigan' stories. The HH books I use for the nobility closer to the center of the 3I, as they've got a more genteel feel to them, while Bujold's Vor Lords have the rough attitudes that nobles on the frontiers would probably possess. Just my opinion.

Simon Jester
"Honest. If I'd had just five more minutes with the belt sander, the dog wouldn't have looked half as bad."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simon Jester:
The two book series that I use as a basis for how I run my Nobility are David Weber's 'Honor Harrington' books and Lois McMaster Bujold's 'Miles Vorkosigan' stories. The HH books I use for the nobility closer to the center of the 3I, as they've got a more genteel feel to them, while Bujold's Vor Lords have the rough attitudes that nobles on the frontiers would probably possess. Just my opinion.

Simon Jester
"Honest. If I'd had just five more minutes with the belt sander, the dog wouldn't have looked half as bad."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To lanning: Yes, I'm the same aramis as used to haunt the TML. (No longer, for the signal to noise got too low... way too much noise for the signal, and too much of the signal was GT of late... an hence no use for me.)

Now, Bujold's view just happens to be quite like my own; parallel evolution. I do like the Bujold works. And I even like the HH books, even though I root for the peeps the whole way through. (And revel in HH's suffering. I DESPISE the $%^&$!!! I've never encounted a main character I sympathized with less than Captain Harrington.)

My big "Innovation" it seems is the "Stocks for licensure" method for rationalizing all those megacorp shares to the Imperial household and Imperial Family. And why the big lines all have nobles at the head. And how the Nobles can afford to operate without being a taxation system. If you get a 1% share of all corporate profits in your demense, your nobles have a reason to promote buisiness, and don't tax, but recieve dividends. Everybody is better off, since share payouts are common reference, and easily checked. And choosing a proxy is a massively powerful choice for showing favor, disfavor, or disinterest... and major shareholders are QUITE more likely to get the dirty than tax agents. It also helps to maintain the low (borderline survival) rates for passages: The nobles do in fact form a largish trust; the lines make their monies elsewhere, but do passages to maintain their dominance (not quite a monopoly) over long range travel.

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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
 
I also forgot to mention my view of the lesser nobility. This is the nobility that has won itself through patent. Otherwise not the hereditary ruling class of the Imperium. But the regular smoes who make the Imperial machine work.

These include: artists (including a couple eccentric rock stars), planetary presidents & govenors, many a commisioned officer, local justice of the peace, starport high officials, imperial ambassadors, itinerant knights, etc.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kafka47:
I also forgot to mention my view of the lesser nobility. This is the nobility that has won itself through patent. Otherwise not the hereditary ruling class of the Imperium. But the regular smoes who make the Imperial machine work.

These include: artists (including a couple eccentric rock stars), planetary presidents & govenors, many a commisioned officer, local justice of the peace, starport high officials, imperial ambassadors, itinerant knights, etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have these, too. plus no shortage of other wierdos. I often think of Ivan vorPatril as the perfect example of the lesser nobility of the other sort, though: the non-inheritors. Noble by birth, but without noble office.

IMTU, only the heir of high nobles gains the same social rank; the lesser sons are knights, or demi-barons (Soc 11.6).

Then again, IMTU, there are:
Knights (Soc 11)
Knight Commander (Soc 11.2)
Demi-Baron (Soc 11.4; effectively a baron socially)
Knight Grand Commander (Soc 11.6)
Baron (soc 12)
(and then the rest of the taditional traveller ranks).

Knights add 0.2 for prestigious orders (OEG, OIH, OH)
Subtract about 0.2 for lesser orders (Knights of local sub-imperial multi-world polities).

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-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
 
Over on the TML, several people recently posted their ideas, and even lengthy essays, about how they handled the Assassination in Their Traveller Universes. One of the most popular was the Larsen Whipsnade essay. You can find it archived at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rboleyn/downloads/Wounded-Colossus.txt

The Whipsnade Version aka "The Wounded Colossus" is a Traveller whose 3rd Imperium is less of a juggernaut, due to military damage inflicted and due to military distractions in various regions. See if you like it. Even if you don't want to run that setting for Your Traveller Universe, you are almost certain to enjoy the reading.

--LaningGravity. Not just a good idea; it's the law.
 
This stuff is amazing! Wow! I dumped the whole thing to a Word file, and must say I am impressed. That is certainly the way to go with the future instead of the stupid virus BS. Also the Empress Wave silliness must go as well. Does this guy post here? If not send him an invitation ASAP!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laning:
Over on the TML, several people recently posted their ideas, and even lengthy essays, about how they handled the Assassination in Their Traveller Universes. One of the most popular was the Larsen Whipsnade essay. You can find it archived at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/rboleyn/downloads/Wounded-Colossus.txt

The Whipsnade Version aka "The Wounded Colossus" is a Traveller whose 3rd Imperium is less of a juggernaut, due to military damage inflicted and due to military distractions in various regions. See if you like it. Even if you don't want to run that setting for Your Traveller Universe, you are almost certain to enjoy the reading.

--LaningGravity. Not just a good idea; it's the law.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
I'll pass on your compliments and invitation. At the moment, farfuture.net still does not have any links to the message boards, so it's a little awkward for new people to join in here.

You may well be interested in joining the TML (Traveller Mailing List) yourself, where Mr. Whipsnade and many other fascinating people are regulars. If so, I strongly urge you to lurk awhile before jumping in. I also suggest the digest version, as there is usually quite a lot of traffic. Info can be found here: http://tml.travellercentral.com/faq.html

Be advised that all editions of Traveller are well represented on the TML, not just Classic Traveller. In fact, GURPS Traveller is probably the most widely-used edition on the TML at the moment. Classic Traveller is probably second. There are plenty of MegaTraveller, TNE, and T4 adherents as well. Many of the TML regulars display an astonishing mastery of published material on life in the far future. Marc Miller occasionally delurks to comment, and Loren Wiseman is a regular.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+
 
Can anyone post a general invite to the TML folks to join us? Especially Larsen Whipsnade, what a brilliant guy.
 
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