To vector, or not to vector...

[whartung]

I haven't played any vector combat games, but feel compelled to make one point. The notion that missiles aren't able or "allowed" to accelerate far faster than ships is completely unrealistic. Off the top of my head, I'd say that missile M-ratings ought to range from 10-G to 60-G.

Yea, save that it's not unrealistic at all.

According to Wikipedia, an AIM-9 (may, may be model dependent) requires 5 sec of 20g acceleration, but it only has a top speed of Mach 2.5. At 20g you can get there in 4.25 seconds, so it may be drag or who knows that limits the top speed to M2.5.

In either case, the bigger point is that regardless of what the initial impulse is on the missile, however many G it has, the missile burns through its propellant quite quickly and then coasts to the target. It's duration is measured in seconds. It can do that because it can use it's wings to guide missile through the air with simple momentum, after the propellant is spent.

A space missile can not do that. You can launch it off at 20g, and it'll go in a nice straight line at 20g. But if it needs to turn, it's going to need more fuel. It can't simply wiggle it's wings.

Spaceship combat is measured in minutes over thousands of kilometers. Whatever you visualize these missiles to be, they're in fact quite large.

If you want to get 20g of acceleration, for a large missile, you will need a lot of reaction mass, especially if you intend to turn them more than once.

TNE will happily let you make a 20g capable missile.

If you're not using reaction mass, then you're using M-Drives which, for whatever reason, are limited to 6G.

 

[the angle]

[edit -- I see that Whartung and I were simultaneously typing along the same lines. Ahh, the internet.]

I believe that current Sidewinders produce thrust that reaches momentarily to nearly 50 g. They can produce that high thrust for a very short stretch of time, however--much less than one of Traveller's tactical turns in space--and have a range of about 18 miles. Their brief burst of 50 g would produce an almost unnoticeable effect on the scale of Traveller space combat.

At the other end of the scale, a Saturn V tops out at 4 g with a burn time of around 3 minutes, IIRC.

In Traveller, if you allowed a missile to generate 50 g of maneuvering force for an entire turn, it might as well be a laser. It would smack anything on the board the turn it was fired. Since Traveller is a game and not war, one of the goals is to keep things interesting and fun, and I'm willing to sacrifice quite a lot of "realism" (a rather meaningless term in this context, since we're setting our own parameters for what's real and what isn't) to fuel my enjoyment. What I enjoy about using the vector-based maneuvering IS the maneuvering: dodging the missiles and figuring out when you need to brake in order to slingshot around a planet or not overshoot the space station, and doing it right on the map with my eyes and brain instead of with some dice and modifiers.

Others, of course, might find all that tedious and prefer the exact opposite. C'est la vie.

Steve