Supplement Four
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Check out Boston.com's list of the top 50 SciFi shows of all time.
Top 50 SciFi TV Shows of All Time
- Thread starter Supplement Four
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RainOfSteel
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These sorts of lists have begun to raise bile in my throat.
First of all, the people who assemble them frequently aren't SF fans at all, much less hard-core dyed-in-the-wool fans. Sure, John Q. Nobody the red-neck beer guzzler can rate beers all day long, but that doesn't mean his opinions are worth a thing.
Next, there aren't 10 candidates available for "greatest" SF shows ever on TV, much less 50. Most SF TV shows were pretty bad in the overall analysis.
Third, this website is ridiculous beyond the imagination. It expects me to go through fifty (50!) freaking pages to see what they've rated? What happened to the good old-fashioned thing we've all come to know and love, the list? I guess a list would be just too darned easy to look over. Instead, user-frustrating obfuscation is substituted for good web layout.
Rating Star Trek ToS as #1? Hardly. There's less SF in most of the ToS and more silly-stupid plot errors and logic holes that show that authors weren't even trying than anything else, unless what they were trying to do was insult the viewer's intelligence. If that were the case, they succeeded. (The fact that I absolutely adored this series when I was 7 is quite beside the point. My critical judgment skills were hardly in good form at that time.)
BSG 2 as #2 I quite disagree. While the pilot and most of the first season was good, the whole value of the series went right down the tubes with the appearance of Caine at the end of season 1, she and her crew were quite simply unbelievable. The show seemed to go straight into Soap in Space on Military Dictator Insanity. I started calling it Battlestar Barftactica after that.
Star Trek TNG as #3. Well, three wrong in a row isn't a suprise.
X-Files? What? This isn't SF. There is almost nothing SF about this show. It's suspense, thriller, horror, anti-authoritarian conspiracy. Aliens from space slapped onto it does not make it SF. A tiny handful of shows qualified as SF, faint SF to be sure, but it was still there. Those handful of episodes do not make the series SF by any stretch of the imagination. Placing 4th out of 50 is a joke.
Babylon 5 made #5? What, was that supposed to be a joke, too? #5 for Babylon 5. The series had problems, that's for sure, but the writing and story quality were head and shoulders above the selections for #1-#4 above. I'm not necessarily saying B5 should have been #1, but the above four selections don't cast a shadow on B5 on any level that could be argued. If two consecutive sets of colossally stupid TV network executives* hadn’t done everything in their power to destroy this series short of canceling it, it would have been far better than the mere greatness it did achieve. (*None of whom are/were fit to lick the soles of my shoes after I’d gone walking through a messy stable.)
Stargate SG-1 got #6.
The Twilight Zone? I can't even believe I'm seeing this.
First of all, the people who assemble them frequently aren't SF fans at all, much less hard-core dyed-in-the-wool fans. Sure, John Q. Nobody the red-neck beer guzzler can rate beers all day long, but that doesn't mean his opinions are worth a thing.
Next, there aren't 10 candidates available for "greatest" SF shows ever on TV, much less 50. Most SF TV shows were pretty bad in the overall analysis.
Third, this website is ridiculous beyond the imagination. It expects me to go through fifty (50!) freaking pages to see what they've rated? What happened to the good old-fashioned thing we've all come to know and love, the list? I guess a list would be just too darned easy to look over. Instead, user-frustrating obfuscation is substituted for good web layout.
Rating Star Trek ToS as #1? Hardly. There's less SF in most of the ToS and more silly-stupid plot errors and logic holes that show that authors weren't even trying than anything else, unless what they were trying to do was insult the viewer's intelligence. If that were the case, they succeeded. (The fact that I absolutely adored this series when I was 7 is quite beside the point. My critical judgment skills were hardly in good form at that time.)
BSG 2 as #2 I quite disagree. While the pilot and most of the first season was good, the whole value of the series went right down the tubes with the appearance of Caine at the end of season 1, she and her crew were quite simply unbelievable. The show seemed to go straight into Soap in Space on Military Dictator Insanity. I started calling it Battlestar Barftactica after that.
Star Trek TNG as #3. Well, three wrong in a row isn't a suprise.
X-Files? What? This isn't SF. There is almost nothing SF about this show. It's suspense, thriller, horror, anti-authoritarian conspiracy. Aliens from space slapped onto it does not make it SF. A tiny handful of shows qualified as SF, faint SF to be sure, but it was still there. Those handful of episodes do not make the series SF by any stretch of the imagination. Placing 4th out of 50 is a joke.
Babylon 5 made #5? What, was that supposed to be a joke, too? #5 for Babylon 5. The series had problems, that's for sure, but the writing and story quality were head and shoulders above the selections for #1-#4 above. I'm not necessarily saying B5 should have been #1, but the above four selections don't cast a shadow on B5 on any level that could be argued. If two consecutive sets of colossally stupid TV network executives* hadn’t done everything in their power to destroy this series short of canceling it, it would have been far better than the mere greatness it did achieve. (*None of whom are/were fit to lick the soles of my shoes after I’d gone walking through a messy stable.)
Stargate SG-1 got #6.
The Twilight Zone? I can't even believe I'm seeing this.
I'm giving up at this point. It's interesting that Star Trek DS9 hasn't yet made an appearance when it stomped ToS and TNG into the dirt overall. Yes, some of the first season of DS9 was pretty bad, but nothing in the series ever reached the nadir of the worst of the upchuck-inducing TNG episodes, and the best episodes of seasons 4 and 5 rocked, something I largely cannot say for most any TNG episode.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Big, huge, strong, disagreement with you there. The new BSG, IMO, is the best scifi show ever to grace the airwaves. Better'n some movies, too.
I can't get enough of that show. It's top notch quality.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I should have added that I don't disagree with you on all counts, though.
Babylon 5 is a great one. So was Deep Space Nine.
Twilight Zone? Yeah, I'll have to agree with the list, though. It's definitely an all-time great.
And, Trek TOS still holds a place in my scifi heart.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I made the horrifying mistake of continuing onward.
Sliders got #10. That it appears on the list of "best" SF shows instead of the worst SF shows is a major piece of evidence that the list's compilers had no idea what they were talking about.
Xena got #11. Xena is Fantasy! Boston.com proves that it can't tell the difference between night and day.
Star Trek Voyager got #14 (Still no DS9).
Logan's Run got #15.
Firefly only got #17. Sorry to say, but it deserves a spot quite a ways up the list.
The Hitchhiker got #20. Really? Well, Xena got on the list. More evidence Boston.com has no idea what it's talking about, and that I was right that there weren't more than 10 candidates available for this list.
Andromeda got #22. When I first heard of this series, with Kevin Sorbo in it, all I could think of was Hercules in Space. How wrong I was. This show was better SF TV than most other shows could hope to be, even if the story quality did slide toward the end. It deserves a slot far up the list.
Tales from the Krypts got #23. It doesn't belong on the list.
Wonder Women (Lynda Carter) got #24. This is a superhero show. It is not SF. It doesn't belong on the list.
The Jetson's got #25. This is a cartoon, not SF.
Stargate Atlantis got #26. Well, somebody in Boston doesn't like it. How it gets slotted below shows that don't belong on the list is something of a mystery.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer get #27. It doesn't belong on the list.
The Adventures of Superman (1952-57) got #28. It doesn't belong on the list.
My Favorite Martian got #32. It was sit-com, people! Any SF in it was pure window dressing to help the sit-com along. I can't quite kick it off the list, much as I'd like to.
Space 1999 got #37. Um, this show was really, really, incredibly bad. Really. It has no place on a best list of anything.
Batman got #38. Superhero shows don't belong on an SF list.
Futurama got #41. It belongs on the list about as much as My Favorite Martian does, but at least it was funny.
Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman got #44. You can tell they've run out of ideas since they've had to pad so many superhero shows onto an SF list.
You know, I may have missed it, but DS9 wasn't even on the list . . . when Boston.stupidity was busy padding the list with items that don't even belong there.
Yes, I was right, these lists do get my ire going, especially in the presence of proof positive that the list's compilers had no idea of what they were talking about.
Bostom.com's list isn't going to enter anyone's annals of what to look at when considering good SF.
Sliders got #10. That it appears on the list of "best" SF shows instead of the worst SF shows is a major piece of evidence that the list's compilers had no idea what they were talking about.
Xena got #11. Xena is Fantasy! Boston.com proves that it can't tell the difference between night and day.
Star Trek Voyager got #14 (Still no DS9).
Logan's Run got #15.
Firefly only got #17. Sorry to say, but it deserves a spot quite a ways up the list.
The Hitchhiker got #20. Really? Well, Xena got on the list. More evidence Boston.com has no idea what it's talking about, and that I was right that there weren't more than 10 candidates available for this list.
Andromeda got #22. When I first heard of this series, with Kevin Sorbo in it, all I could think of was Hercules in Space. How wrong I was. This show was better SF TV than most other shows could hope to be, even if the story quality did slide toward the end. It deserves a slot far up the list.
Tales from the Krypts got #23. It doesn't belong on the list.
Wonder Women (Lynda Carter) got #24. This is a superhero show. It is not SF. It doesn't belong on the list.
The Jetson's got #25. This is a cartoon, not SF.
Stargate Atlantis got #26. Well, somebody in Boston doesn't like it. How it gets slotted below shows that don't belong on the list is something of a mystery.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer get #27. It doesn't belong on the list.
The Adventures of Superman (1952-57) got #28. It doesn't belong on the list.
My Favorite Martian got #32. It was sit-com, people! Any SF in it was pure window dressing to help the sit-com along. I can't quite kick it off the list, much as I'd like to.
Space 1999 got #37. Um, this show was really, really, incredibly bad. Really. It has no place on a best list of anything.
Batman got #38. Superhero shows don't belong on an SF list.
Futurama got #41. It belongs on the list about as much as My Favorite Martian does, but at least it was funny.
Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman got #44. You can tell they've run out of ideas since they've had to pad so many superhero shows onto an SF list.
You know, I may have missed it, but DS9 wasn't even on the list . . . when Boston.stupidity was busy padding the list with items that don't even belong there.
Yes, I was right, these lists do get my ire going, especially in the presence of proof positive that the list's compilers had no idea of what they were talking about.
Bostom.com's list isn't going to enter anyone's annals of what to look at when considering good SF.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I haven't looked at the list (why bother based on what you all have posted
) but is there not a mention of...
Farscape? Or...
Space Above and Beyond? Or...
Doctor Who? (to stretch the concept of sci-fi less than some on there) (EDIT: ah, The Doctor did make the list
) Or...
Red Dwarf? Or...
Blakes 7? (hmm... Could it be some anti-Brit bias? Still steamed about the tea tax in Boston?
)
Ah well, I agree, these "best of" lists are usually crap. Pointless crap. David Letterman has the right idea, Top 10 lists are a farce
Farscape? Or...
Space Above and Beyond? Or...
Doctor Who? (to stretch the concept of sci-fi less than some on there) (EDIT: ah, The Doctor did make the list
Red Dwarf? Or...
Blakes 7? (hmm... Could it be some anti-Brit bias? Still steamed about the tea tax in Boston?
)Ah well, I agree, these "best of" lists are usually crap. Pointless crap. David Letterman has the right idea, Top 10 lists are a farce
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
"Lost?" Crap, I say. Bah to this list and all that spawned it.
This is a hurtin list for sure. Voyager is on it. Earth Final Conflict is on it. Logan's Run is on it. Battlestar Galactica is only #2 because of it's current poopularity. "V" ?? "V"?!?! wtf. "Dark Angel?" Puh=Lease!
People should watch more of these shows rather than just making lists. Then maybe they'll know better than to put Dr. Who so low, or to exclude "Farscape"
This list also clearly shows that whoever stuck it together for a fluff piece doesn't give two s==ts for Sci fi. It misght as well be a "Top 50 Dog Breeds" list.
This is a hurtin list for sure. Voyager is on it. Earth Final Conflict is on it. Logan's Run is on it. Battlestar Galactica is only #2 because of it's current poopularity. "V" ?? "V"?!?! wtf. "Dark Angel?" Puh=Lease!
People should watch more of these shows rather than just making lists. Then maybe they'll know better than to put Dr. Who so low, or to exclude "Farscape"
This list also clearly shows that whoever stuck it together for a fluff piece doesn't give two s==ts for Sci fi. It misght as well be a "Top 50 Dog Breeds" list.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hmm, you know, a quick google shows the same things happening on some other so called sci-fi top lists. Crap shows and not sci-fi making the list. Maybe they just copied off someone else's list and jumbled the order a bit
Lists are fun for refreshing the memory of times old. It also helps when runs Traveller at a Con, what people's perceptions of SF generally are (these days most people watch TV, so to use literary references...it is bound to get more obscure). You then use their preference to weave them into the storyline. Hardcore SF enthusiasts usually have played Traveller, so no explanations are needed.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Farscape, Space Above and Beyond, Red Dwarf, Blake's 7, and STOriginally posted by far-trader:
Farscape? Or...
Space Above and Beyond? Or...
Doctor Who? (to stretch the concept of sci-fi less than some on there) (EDIT: ah, The Doctor did make the list) Or...
Red Dwarf? Or...
Blakes 7?
S9 were all not on the list.Dr. Who was on the list, I just didn't mention it.
I don't care much for Enterprise, but it was better than Space 1999 or Logan's Run (or The Greatest American Hero). It also was not on the list.
Honestly, forgetting Red Dwarf when the Jetson's and My Favorite Martian were included? An automatic list-building failure.
Given some of the irrelevant material on the list, I'm surprised they didn't include Knight Rider.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I agree completely. This is exactly the point I was trying to illuminate.
I am not saying that "best lists" are necessarily bad. But in general, any SF or Fantasy "best list" is probably going to have been put together by a journalist upon whom the assignment has been dumped because they have a passing familiarity with the Genre and a talent for Google-Fu. Or at least it is for Boston.com's list. If this assessment weren't true, you wouldn't have seen so many non-SF TV shows on the list alongside some of the worst SF TV shows ever produced.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
SF is a hard genre to define - Damon Knight said "science fiction is what we point to when we say it" - but that's a lousy list.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
War of the Worlds?
Seaquest?
Man From Atlantis?
And heck, if My Favorite Martian makes it, where is Mork & Mindy?
The Jetsons is on the list, but Johny Quest isn't?
I won't even start on the overwhelmingly American slant of this list, with a couple nods to England and Canada. The absence of Farscape and Space AAB has already been noted, but including cartoons and ignoring Space Cruiser Yamato (aka "Star Blazers") and any number of other Japanese serials is a sign of ignorance *at best*.
I have to wonder what the missing word in the list title after "Top" really is.
Seaquest?
Man From Atlantis?
And heck, if My Favorite Martian makes it, where is Mork & Mindy?
The Jetsons is on the list, but Johny Quest isn't?
I won't even start on the overwhelmingly American slant of this list, with a couple nods to England and Canada. The absence of Farscape and Space AAB has already been noted, but including cartoons and ignoring Space Cruiser Yamato (aka "Star Blazers") and any number of other Japanese serials is a sign of ignorance *at best*.
I have to wonder what the missing word in the list title after "Top" really is.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
You have a point, but that's the thing about passion for anything, it causes a rise whenever it's maligned in the least way. And I think we're all pretty passionate about sci-fi on this board I don't find that too sad Funny? Yeah, a bit
I don't find that too sad Funny? Yeah, a bit
Here is their full list:
1 'Star Trek' (Original) Set the standard, but the bar was kind of low.
2 Battlestar Galactica (New) What Sci-Fi should be
3 Star Trek: The Next Generation How did Wesley Crusher save the universe this episode?
4 The X-Files Conspiracy fantasy, or Sci-Fantasy, not Sci-Fi
5 'Babylon 5' A story line with logic, or a soap opera in space.
6 'Stargate SG-1' What Star Drek should have been
7 'The Twilight Zone' Most episodes were excellent
8 'Dr. Who' The new series makes me want to get a hold of the old series
9 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' Made old Dreck entertaining
10 Sliders Good at asking the basic Sci-Fi question of "What If?"
11 Lost I was "lost" after the first episode
12 'Xena: Warrior Princess' Pure fantasy, not Sci-Fi
13 'The Outer Limits' Great Sci-Fi
14 'Star Trek: Voyager' Turned me off of Star Dreck. Should have been named "How not to get home"
15 'Logan's Run' Take a good movie and kill it with a series bad.
16 'Flash Gordon' Please, never again
17 Firefly The screen writers actually seem to have read 1950s Sci-Fi books
18 V Sci-Fi dreck
19 'Dark Angel' Halfway between Super hero and Sci-Fi
20 'The Hitchhiker' This was Sci-Fi?
21 'Quantum Leap' Asked the basic Sci-Fi question of "What If?"
22 'Andromeda' This was a nail in Roddenberry's coffin
23 'Tales from the Crypt' Pure fantasy, not Sci-Fi, scary stories, mostly based on comics from the 1950s
24 'Wonder Woman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
25 'The Jetsons' A Cartoon, not Sci-Fi
26 'Stargate Atlantis' An attempt to destroy a great series
27 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' Pure fantasy, not Sci-Fi
28 'Adventures of Superman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
29 'The Six Million Dollar Man' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
30 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' Sci-Fi with gadgets
31 'Alien Nation' Sci-Fi without gadgets
32 'My Favorite Martian' Comedy, not Sci-Fi
33 'Lost In Space' Comedy with guys in rubber monster suits. Reduced "what if" to what color of rubber suit
34 'The Avengers' The show maintained a strong sci-fi edge with plots including cyborgs, futuristic cities
35 'Battlestar Galactica' (Original) Should have paid for better writers in the 2nd season
36 'The Bionic Woman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
37 'Space 1999' How not to make a Sci-Fi series
38 'Batman' How this was on a Sci-Fi list?
39 'The Man from U.N.C.L.E.' Not Sci-Fi
40 'The Thunderbirds' puppet sci-fi
41 'Futurama' cartoon
42 'Science Fiction Theatre' Not bad for it's time
43 'Nowhere Man' Did anyone actually see this?"
44 'Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
45 'The Greatest American Hero' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
46 'That Was Then' Did anyone actually see this?"
47 'Buck Rogers in the 25th Century' Should have paid for better writers in the 2nd season
48 '3rd Rock From The Sun' sci-fi comedy
49 'The Wild Wild West' Western, not Sci-Fi
50 'Earth: Final Conflict' Not worth the time to watch it.
1 'Star Trek' (Original) Set the standard, but the bar was kind of low.
2 Battlestar Galactica (New) What Sci-Fi should be
3 Star Trek: The Next Generation How did Wesley Crusher save the universe this episode?
4 The X-Files Conspiracy fantasy, or Sci-Fantasy, not Sci-Fi
5 'Babylon 5' A story line with logic, or a soap opera in space.
6 'Stargate SG-1' What Star Drek should have been
7 'The Twilight Zone' Most episodes were excellent
8 'Dr. Who' The new series makes me want to get a hold of the old series
9 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' Made old Dreck entertaining
10 Sliders Good at asking the basic Sci-Fi question of "What If?"
11 Lost I was "lost" after the first episode
12 'Xena: Warrior Princess' Pure fantasy, not Sci-Fi
13 'The Outer Limits' Great Sci-Fi
14 'Star Trek: Voyager' Turned me off of Star Dreck. Should have been named "How not to get home"
15 'Logan's Run' Take a good movie and kill it with a series bad.
16 'Flash Gordon' Please, never again
17 Firefly The screen writers actually seem to have read 1950s Sci-Fi books
18 V Sci-Fi dreck
19 'Dark Angel' Halfway between Super hero and Sci-Fi
20 'The Hitchhiker' This was Sci-Fi?
21 'Quantum Leap' Asked the basic Sci-Fi question of "What If?"
22 'Andromeda' This was a nail in Roddenberry's coffin
23 'Tales from the Crypt' Pure fantasy, not Sci-Fi, scary stories, mostly based on comics from the 1950s
24 'Wonder Woman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
25 'The Jetsons' A Cartoon, not Sci-Fi
26 'Stargate Atlantis' An attempt to destroy a great series
27 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' Pure fantasy, not Sci-Fi
28 'Adventures of Superman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
29 'The Six Million Dollar Man' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
30 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' Sci-Fi with gadgets
31 'Alien Nation' Sci-Fi without gadgets
32 'My Favorite Martian' Comedy, not Sci-Fi
33 'Lost In Space' Comedy with guys in rubber monster suits. Reduced "what if" to what color of rubber suit
34 'The Avengers' The show maintained a strong sci-fi edge with plots including cyborgs, futuristic cities
35 'Battlestar Galactica' (Original) Should have paid for better writers in the 2nd season
36 'The Bionic Woman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
37 'Space 1999' How not to make a Sci-Fi series
38 'Batman' How this was on a Sci-Fi list?
39 'The Man from U.N.C.L.E.' Not Sci-Fi
40 'The Thunderbirds' puppet sci-fi
41 'Futurama' cartoon
42 'Science Fiction Theatre' Not bad for it's time
43 'Nowhere Man' Did anyone actually see this?"
44 'Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
45 'The Greatest American Hero' Super Hero, not Sci-Fi
46 'That Was Then' Did anyone actually see this?"
47 'Buck Rogers in the 25th Century' Should have paid for better writers in the 2nd season
48 '3rd Rock From The Sun' sci-fi comedy
49 'The Wild Wild West' Western, not Sci-Fi
50 'Earth: Final Conflict' Not worth the time to watch it.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...and a couple of my own musings in sympathy
16 'Flash Gordon' Please, never again
43 'Nowhere Man' Did anyone actually see this?"
<raises hand> Actually it wasn't bad in a lot of ways. Very edgy concept that started with a lot of promise. It deserved a second season. I think time slotting killed it. Too much bouncing around and dead time to catch an audience as I recall. Definitely not sci-fi though. At least not the one I'm thinking of (1995).
Most of what's on television, or ever has been, is crap. Scifi or otherwise. The current version of BSG is looking really good. Amazing, given that the original was such a flaming bag of liquid CR@P.
Best sci-fi on television right now? Maybe BSG2. CSI comes right after. Their depictions are a little off the mark for a modern millieu, but would be just perfect for, "CSI: Regina."
Hmm! How about, "Homicide: Life in the Arcology?"
Best sci-fi on television right now? Maybe BSG2. CSI comes right after. Their depictions are a little off the mark for a modern millieu, but would be just perfect for, "CSI: Regina."
Hmm! How about, "Homicide: Life in the Arcology?"
Rhialto the Marvelous
SOC-13
All the gloating over BSG almost makes me regret ditching the tube three years ago...
Star TREK TOS at Number 1 is a-ok, though.
I'm weird, so I'd put Futurama in the Top 5.
Does anyone remember a show that (I *think*) was called Time Tunnel? Must have been late 60s/early 70s. Two scientists(?) trapped in a time vortex get dumped into a different period each episode.
Star TREK TOS at Number 1 is a-ok, though.
I'm weird, so I'd put Futurama in the Top 5.
Does anyone remember a show that (I *think*) was called Time Tunnel? Must have been late 60s/early 70s. Two scientists(?) trapped in a time vortex get dumped into a different period each episode.
There are those who believe that NBSG is Soft-⌧ Yanks-in-space wrapped in a thin veil of Sci-Fi. The only thing it has going for it, IMO, is the visual imagery of the
There are also those who believe that the original, while lousy as "sci-fi" was good entertainment with family values.
CSI as a whole pushes into Sci-Fi on ease of use... but all the actual tests they use exist. Just not with those pretty interfaces they show.
I'd put the Old BSG on about #4...
Here's my top few.
1 ST:TOS
2 Firefly
3 Bab5
4 Old BSG
5 Quantum Leap
6 DS9
7 Space: Above and Beyond
