Tramp Freighter Regs on EmergLB & Esc Pods

[SpaceBadger]

Given: Tramp freighter subject to some sort of regulation, be it Imperial or port of registration or whatever. That isn't the issue.

What should the regulations (if any) be so far as carriage of Emergency Low Berths and Escape Pods? (Assuming ships are usually too small for lots of Life Boats such as Liners may carry.)

1) Enough of each for all crew plus max full load of passengers?

2) Enough of each for all crew plus usual passenger load?

3) Enough of either (or combined mix) for crew and passengers?

4) Give up cargo space for WHAT??? :rofl:

 

[rancke]

Given: Tramp freighter subject to some sort of regulation, be it Imperial or port of registration or whatever. That isn't the issue.

What should the regulations (if any) be so far as carriage of Emergency Low Berths and Escape Pods? (Assuming ships are usually too small for lots of Life Boats such as Liners may carry.)

1) Enough of each for all crew plus max full load of passengers?

2) Enough of each for all crew plus usual passenger load?

3) Enough of either (or combined mix) for crew and passengers?

4) Give up cargo space for WHAT??? :rofl:

Are you asking about what we think ought to be, or are you asking about what the Imperial laws governing ships operating inside the Imperium are? Because if it's the latter, I'm pretty sure there are canonical ships with no low berths (or nor enough) and no escape pods (at least no escape pods mentioned in the description).


Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

Given: Tramp freighter subject to some sort of regulation, be it Imperial or port of registration or whatever. That isn't the issue.

Not what you want to hear, but I've never had the impression that there was enforced regulations for escape pods or other emergency items like survival balls on tramp freighters or any other sort of starship. I get this impression because it never seemed to be spoken of much in all the Traveller materials that speak to such things.

I'm guessing that it doesn't happen that often that things like this are needed? Or maybe, because of distances and travel time, even within a star system, that nobody in a Survival Bubble or escape pod will last long enough for rescue to be mounted?

What should the regulations (if any) be so far as carriage of Emergency Low Berths and Escape Pods? (Assuming ships are usually too small for lots of Life Boats such as Liners may carry.)

1) Enough of each for all crew plus max full load of passengers?

2) Enough of each for all crew plus usual passenger load?

3) Enough of either (or combined mix) for crew and passengers?

4) Give up cargo space for WHAT??? :rofl:

Since I think this is totally a YTU question, I'd say go with what you think is correct. Option 1 looks good.

Maybe the regs are system based? Jurisdiction changes? It depends on the noble the governs that star system? Or, maybe it depends on the Law Level of the main world?

And, therefore, although there are no Imperial regs that maintain survival apparatus must be carried, a skipper that operates close to a world or star cluster where the local regs on this are enforced will carry what he needs to meet those regs since he does so much business in that area?

Plus, I think it would be a neat encounter to have customs board the PC ship and then dock 'em/fine 'em/imprison 'em/whatever for not meeting the local regs.

"Sir, Allel cluster law states clearly that each passenger must have access to a TL 9 or better vacc suit or Survival Bubble with 10 hours of life support, and YOU don't even have one aboard this ship! You will be escorted dirtside where...".

Another idea, probably more practical, is that every person aboard the ship must have access to a Vacc Suit with a minimum amount of life support, plus there must be one Vacc Suit per air lock...or something like that.

Just brainstorming...

 

[atpollard]

And a strong argument can be made that there is no place safer than the ship, so unless the "lifeboat" is a regular small craft, stay with the ship.

IMTU, I require one survival bubble per passenger or crew to allow survival during decompression until a crewman in a vacc suit can get you to an undamaged compartment.

Anything else is probably just a plot device.

 

[pendragonman]

And a strong argument can be made that there is no place safer than the ship, so unless the "lifeboat" is a regular small craft, stay with the ship.

IMTU, I require one survival bubble per passenger or crew to allow survival during decompression until a crewman in a vacc suit can get you to an undamaged compartment.

Anything else is probably just a plot device.

Willard: "Never get out of the boat." Absolutely g▮▮▮▮▮n right! Unless you were goin' all the way... Kurtz got off the boat. He split from the whole ▮▮▮▮in' program.

 

[MCEvans]

As the Poster says (several versions in the gallery)
"Free Traders - Fast, Cheap, Legal
Pick two"

 

[mike wightman]

What are these escape pods of which you speak?

I don't see them mentioned in LBB2 or HG2

Unless you want to house rule them as being included in bridge tonnage or stateroom tonnage.

I too would go for option 4

 

[Vladika]

There is nothing in canon for CT/HG2 materials that require SOLAS gear of any kind.

For a Free Trader, I can't really see the practicality. Usually, whatever might happen just isn't going to happen where anything less than a long term lifeboat would make a bit of difference. For a large Liner...probably should be equipped, but again, nothing canon.

If you think about the 100dia limit, there really isn't anything to hit but another ship. While you will precipitate from jump at least 100dia from that too, I can see the possibility of a collision course occurring. What to do though?

Is it likely that ALL airtight compartments will be ruptured throughout the ship? This is a good reason for ships entering systems to have minimal, or no, headway on them. Otherwise you just might get the Far Future version of the Andrea Doria/Stockholm.

Now for in system ships, traversing the asteroid belt, the Far Future version of the Titanic/Asteroid is a possibility...

SOLAS equipment? Captain's choice.

 

[Ran Targas]

I really don't think that anything short of another ship or boat will prolong your chance of survival very long so any temporary shelter will prove to be very temporary and quite disappointing. Space is a harsh mistress. Unless you're very close to a planet or a often used jump point, as soon as you enter the pod you're on borrowed time. Even a week's worth of life support would take up a lot of space for one occupant and most escape devices don't account for it.

That said, maybe like today, ships must meet the safety requirements established by the government of their port of registry, unless Imperial law overrides it. If Rhylanor says one inflatable life ball per crewman and passenger, then to maintain my registry in Rhylanor I have to be so equipped. There may added requirements if the ship is part of an association (such as a subsidized merchant) or must maintain a specific level of readiness (like a scout). This would probably apply to ship maintenance also. Legally another port's rules only apply if you are embarking passengers, as the port has some responsibility for ensuring the passengers safety.

 

[aramis]

ISTR a mention in some product that a rescue ball per occupant is required Note that a rescue ball is only a few liters when stowed, and a little under a kiloliter when inflated.

This allows a ship to do onboard rescue; it's not so much for external rescue.

EG: Stateroom bank 2 section takes an asteroid. The alarm sounds. Everyone climbs into their rescue ball. The engineering staff goes and fixes the hole (if they can), while the stewards connect the balls to the central LS via the 5-port connectors (Water in, Air in, Air out, voice in, voice out). If the repairs can't be done in flight, the stewards drag the rescue balls into a section that isn't forcibly in vacuum, which they then repressurize.

 

[Carlobrand]

When you start talking about safety regulation, you need to look at the problem you want to solve, not the way you want to solve it. Unless you're in space and not on a collision course you can't avoid, or your ship's about to explode or something, your ship's your best shelter. Even powerless, it protects you from radiation and micrometeors. Most regulations will therefore speak to keeping you alive inside the ship: rescue balls, hull patches, emergency power, O2 candles, fast drug in the emergency medkits, whatever they can think of to keep everyone alive until help can arrive.

An escape pod presupposes a need to escape. In other words, your ship is facing imminent destruction and the only safe place is off the ship. In most cases likely to be encountered by a freighter, if your ship's facing imminent destruction then your odds of reaching the escape pod and getting them safely away between the time you realize the problem and the time your fate overtakes you are pretty miserably low - too low to justify a blanket regulatory requirement.

Scouts and the military face a different set of problems. It may be necessary to scuttle the ship, in which case being aboard when the nuclear charges go off is likely to be unhealthy. You may find yourself alone over a world unable or unwilling to send up rescue, and your survival depends on you making your own way to the surface.

MegaTrav - well, MegaTrav errata, techically - offers an Emergency Atmospheric Re-entry Capsule (EARC). It's a 3-person Cr22,000 drop capsule cradled in a Cr80,000 1dT launch tube. It's capable of making re-entry or keeping occupants alive in space for 22 hours. You could fiddle with the basic concept, add solar panels to keep basic life support going pretty much indefinitely, but the occupants are still going to die when the water runs out, which in that little thing is a matter of a day or two, after which figure 3-4 days before dehydration takes you. You could extend that quite a lot with Fast Drug: 60 days passes as if it were 1. I would be leery of using that when you're deep in the dehydration, but it still buys you 2 to 4 months, assuming that solar panel for power - unless of course you had a solar flare or a micrometeorite hit.

On the other hand, it might be cheaper and more space-efficient to have a Cr7000 generic spacesuit with a Marooned Alone style re-entry kit and a backpack life support system powered by a solar panel: Cr300 50 liter basic LSS out of the ship design system with a - let's use TL9 - Cr5000 1-square meter solar panel. Same set-up will keep a rescue ball habitable for quite a while. It'd cost less than an EARC and keep you alive about the same length of time, which could again be 2 to 4 months if you've got a built-in method for administering fast drug - unless again you had a solar flare or a micrometeorite hit.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

The escape pod idea came in Mongoose Traveller starship construction rules. It isn't a bad thought, very bare bones in the core rulebook. However the TM-1 Escape Pod PDF is good and detailed. Well worth the money because not only is the escape pod and its contents detailed, but adventure ideas are also included.

 

[Vladika]

I believe there was a design in Reformation Coalition Equipment, for both escape pods 3dt, and lifeboats 10dt IIRC. Others mentioned above are there too.

 

[epicenter00]

I'm guessing that it doesn't happen that often that things like this are needed? Or maybe, because of distances and travel time, even within a star system, that nobody in a Survival Bubble or escape pod will last long enough for rescue to be mounted?

Actually, "statistically speaking" I would think a survival ball or something with even a 48 hour duration on life support would be more capable, perhaps even 24 hours.

While obviously the Traveller universe doesn't really exist, I would think it reasonable that if it did, statistics would show that the overwhelming majority of accidents that happen to civilian vessels occur within 100 diameters of a mainworld; most Traveller ships I think very much are "lift off, go to 100D, Jump out" and a week later "appear as close to 100D from the destination world as possible, fly to spaceport." In which case, I think a survival bubble, especially one with its own re-entry capacity (if necessary) would be very reasonable to mandate. A lot of mainworlds are going to have a lot of traffic or just a local rescue service (even in a system without a rescue service, any tramp freighter would probably come to help rescue because, well, if that were to happen to them, they'd want the same). Of course, you're out of luck if you're around a remote world without any other starships, but I think that's the exception rather than the rule.

Player-run ships like to do things like fly around to remote worlds in a star system or some star system where the "main" world has a spaceport type D or worse and so on, but player-run ships are very much the exception, not the rule. It might not be useful for a lot of player ships, but I think there'd still be rules mandating it (similar to things like rafts in jumbo jets today, I think rarely if ever have come in handy, but they're there for that slim possibility).

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

I believe there was a design in Reformation Coalition Equipment, for both escape pods 3dt, and lifeboats 10dt IIRC. Others mentioned above are there too.

There was. IIRC, they were a 3dT and a 5dT version.

 

[mike wightman]

By TL10 industrial systems are going to have an awful lot of in-system traffic to exploit the resources of the other bodies in the system.

Maybe it's the in system traffic that requires regulation?

Jump ships going from 100D to 100D are going to have the safety net of the Starport only a couple of hours away at most - but if they file a flight plan that involves in-system transit in normal space they then become subject to the system travel regulations.

These regulations could be system, not Imperial, legislation.

Could be an excuse to break out the Exit Visa adventure to get your ship the papers needed for system travel...

oh the adventuring possibilities

 

[aramis]

I believe there was a design in Reformation Coalition Equipment, for both escape pods 3dt, and lifeboats 10dt IIRC. Others mentioned above are there too.

There's a CT lifeboat in JTAS 5 pp 30, and the rescue ball is on pp 30-31.

The lifeboat is 20 Tons (19.6 metric). 3 conscious passengers, and a total of 20 in 5 cold sleep lockers. TL8, MCr14.
Reverse engineering it...

MCr	Td	Item
_2.20	20.0	20Td small craft hull, Cone. SL.
_0.50	_5.0	5xEmergency LB.
_0.10	_4.0	SmCraft Bridge (includes 2 seats)
_0.70	_1.0	Maneuver Drive M2 (5%)
_6.40	_1.6	Power Plant TL8 P2 (8%)
_0.15	_6.0	SmCraft SR x3
_0.00	_0.4	Fuel, 4wk
_2.00	_1.0	Model 1
_0.22	_1.0	parawing (using t20 airframe rule)
12.27	20.0	Total

I come up with MCr 12.27.. Note that the stock Launch is MCr14, M1, P1 in Bk2...

Doing it better...

MCr	Td	Item
__2.200	_20.0	20Td small craft hull, Cone. SL.
__1.000	_10.0	10xEmergency LB.
__0.350	__0.4	Maneuver Drive M1 (2%)
__3.200	__0.8	Power Plant TL8 P1 (4%)
__0.150	__6.0	SmCraft SR x3
__0.000	__0.3	Fuel, 6wk
__2.000	__1.0	Model 1
__0.025	__0.5	SmCraft Seat
__0.220	__1.0	airframe design
__9.145	_20.0	Total

Only 1G, but 40 popsicles, 3 live crew. (Pilot, medic, other). harder to land, but 75% the cost and almost twice the popsicles.

The Rescue Ball is based upon a NASA design.

RESCUE BALL
This item is standard on all Imperial
military vessels and on most private
ships as well. When folded, the rescue
ball is a cylinder about 5 cm in diameter
and about 10 cm long. When deployed,
it forms a sphere slightly over one meter
in diameter which contains air sufficient
to last one person for from one to two
hours. In the event of explosive decompression
or other loss of air, rescue
balls allow individuals not in the possession
of vacc suits or those without time
to don vacc suits to survive long enough
for aid to reach them. The user pulls a
lanyard, climbs inside and seals the zip
closure. The ball is made of a metalcoated
plastic film for ease of location
by radar and contains a small bottle of
compressed air, a small first aid kit, and
a transparent window through which
the occupant may observe conditions
outside the ball. Rescue balls provide
some protection from stellar radiation
and from corrosive and insidious atmospheres
for a five to seven hours.
5 kg. TL 7 Cr 150​

 

[Patron Zero]

.....However the TM-1 Escape Pod PDF is good and detailed. .....

Said nicely constructed supplement was done by COTI member navanod, and it sets the 'standard' concerning such items. Seconding Jeff's opinion as to it's value and place in one's Traveller library.

 

[Golan2072]

This is what I wrote on the subject in my Outer Veil setting book (using Mongoose rules):

FNH [Federated Nations of Humanity] law requires every ship to carry sufficient escape pods (TMB p.111). While all designs have such pods installed when they are produced, some starships on the frontier – where inspections are rare – remove these pods to add cargo space, weaponry or other equipment. Another safety regulation is that every ship carrying passengers must have a Self-Sealing Hull (TMB p.106).

 

[Tobias]

Escape pods, staple of science fiction that they are, do not make much sense to me in the context of Traveller. They seem to be more of a niche application.
Basically I can see two scenarios of spacecraft distress when they might be used:
a) When you want to move away from the ship because it's being irradiated by some sort of onboard accident. Depending on how ship power plants work, this is probably the least unlikely scenario.
b) When your ship has lost maneuvering power and is vectored towards something that would destroy it. In that case the escape pod would need enough maneuvering capability to avoid the same fate, which is not all that likely.