I like the concept but it bumps up against the game physics that dictate how dtonnage is used. There's only so many ways to arrange the same volumes. It doesn't mean that no one should try, it just strikes me that it could get old fast.
Traveller products I'd like to see...
- Thread starter The Thing
- Start date
I like the concept but it bumps up against the game physics that dictate how dtonnage is used. There's only so many ways to arrange the same volumes. It doesn't mean that no one should try, it just strikes me that it could get old fast.
Lord Iron Wolf
SOC-12
How about beyond the Virus???
As much as I'd love the products; I'd love to go into the future beyond the trainwreck of the Virus. Assume starfaring civilization has reinvented itself. Bring the scientific theories up to date and provide a background to adventure in. I hate going into the "wayback" machine to see how things happened. It's like seeing a movie that someone has told you all about. Also the characters cannot affect the universe at all.
Other than that...miniatures, dammit and I don't need spacesuit or military. I can get those anywhere. Some civilians, please, who look like they are from the future, not a GQ article.
Lord Iron Wolf
As much as I'd love the products; I'd love to go into the future beyond the trainwreck of the Virus. Assume starfaring civilization has reinvented itself. Bring the scientific theories up to date and provide a background to adventure in. I hate going into the "wayback" machine to see how things happened. It's like seeing a movie that someone has told you all about. Also the characters cannot affect the universe at all.
Other than that...miniatures, dammit and I don't need spacesuit or military. I can get those anywhere. Some civilians, please, who look like they are from the future, not a GQ article.
Lord Iron Wolf
There's a good article at Freelance Traveller on what a dTon really is. Some examples from modern naval warships include the New Jersey class battleship at 8,000 dTons, the Nimitz class carrier at 18,000 dTons. Typical pre WWII "Treaty Cruiser" was about 2,000 dTons. I'm not really interested in deckplans over 10,000 dTons. I'd really like deckplans of ships in the 1,000 to 2,000 dTon range, and a few up to 5,000 dTon range. Big enough to be interesting, small enough to be useful.
I dunno...
with all the different tech levels and different technologies ( drives, etc. )
it seems to me that ships are going to be different unless all made with same tech/stuff
make a tech 9 Type S with no grav plates and reaction drives
it'll look different I bet...
a good reason to have Zero-G skill, right? ( and stuff in places other than the 'floor' )
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Arguably, there will be as much variation as there are people to pay for it. In the Imperium, that is.
There are, in products that were "Officially Licensed" when they came out, five appearance variations of the Type S, one of which has two different deckplans in its basic form, with *many* more variations once the SJG deckplan product is taken into account. And that doesn't count the Type J Seeker variations.
Add in a couple more on various websites and you've got quite a bit of variation.
I know of at least four official or licensed variations of the Free/Far Trader (deckplan volume issues aside).
If a small licensee felt like it, many of these variations could end up in themed releases, united for the first time. It's not necessarily the sort of thing that Mongoose wants to spend time on, though their ability to open licensing doors could come in handy.
Of course, with deckplans one must make a choice: art vs function. The old CT deckplans tended towards the functional. Few colors, blocky styling, clear detail as it impacted play ("that's clearly a door" for example). Other companies and groups tend towards the artistic. The ZAON stuff is gorgeous, for example, and the online Star Wars group that does starships in "x-ray architecture" style is another example. Are these easy to actually *play* on? Not so much.
I know where I fall on this question. I want play aids, not wall art. This is what drives my own deckplan style as well.
Would I buy themed books with various deckplans and exterior art? You betcha. Would I help create such? Again, yes, if asked.
There are, in products that were "Officially Licensed" when they came out, five appearance variations of the Type S, one of which has two different deckplans in its basic form, with *many* more variations once the SJG deckplan product is taken into account. And that doesn't count the Type J Seeker variations.
Add in a couple more on various websites and you've got quite a bit of variation.
I know of at least four official or licensed variations of the Free/Far Trader (deckplan volume issues aside).
If a small licensee felt like it, many of these variations could end up in themed releases, united for the first time. It's not necessarily the sort of thing that Mongoose wants to spend time on, though their ability to open licensing doors could come in handy.
Of course, with deckplans one must make a choice: art vs function. The old CT deckplans tended towards the functional. Few colors, blocky styling, clear detail as it impacted play ("that's clearly a door" for example). Other companies and groups tend towards the artistic. The ZAON stuff is gorgeous, for example, and the online Star Wars group that does starships in "x-ray architecture" style is another example. Are these easy to actually *play* on? Not so much.
I know where I fall on this question. I want play aids, not wall art. This is what drives my own deckplan style as well.
Would I buy themed books with various deckplans and exterior art? You betcha. Would I help create such? Again, yes, if asked.
Traveller Ships
Hi,
Although I like Traveller alot, I've always felt that the way ships in the Official Universe are handled, while OK from a gaming point of view, is probably a little unrealistic in some ways.
I got my first Traveller stuff way back in the days when it was first published before alot of the supplements came out, and I remeber sitting around with friends trying to design up our own ships and even initially trying to design up our own subsector to play in. Once the Spinward Marches and Traders and Gunboats supplements and Mayday game came out we started using them just because it was easier than trying to make all the stuff up ourselves, and having a ready done deckplan was nice.
Ultimately though as time went on I also kind of became of the impression that the assumption that each Far Trader from one end of the 1100 star systems (or whatever the number was) in the empire to the other was built to exactly the same specs seemed kind of unlikely.
At one time I kind of tried to justify it by considering spaceships of the future as modern airplanes or cars of today, where there might be a lot of desire to make the stuff coming off one production line identical to those coming off any other production line, so that they can all be maintained with exactly the same tools and parts.
But even that idea kind of falls apart in that on any given production line you may have different variants of the same basic design being built side by side and over time changes get incorporated into the stuff that's built. I think a plane like the Boeing 737 might be a good example in that the basic plane has undergone many changes over its life and the current New Generation version of the plane has several subgroups within it (such as the 737-600, 737-700, 737-700ER, etc) if I am understanding correctly.
On the other hand if you look at spaceships as kind of similar to modern day ocean going ships then it would seem to me even more likely that the ships built on different worlds of differing tech levels, and with different resources available, would end up being significantly different than each other.
Specifically, I beleive that it isn't all that uncommon even for military ships of the same class, if they are built in different yards, there may be numerous minor differences in detail, and occassionally a few major differences.
Sometimes this is due to differences in the capabilities of the yards building the ships, and sometimes its just due to the fact that they are using different local suppliers for some of the minor components. But either way, it makes me suspect that in such a large empire as described in the official Traveller Universe that it really would be much more likely that if a 200t ship is a useful size then there would be alot of different basic designs of varying tech level and capability in the empire than a single common 200t Standard Free Trader.
But as I noted above, from a gaming point of view its probably a lot easier to assume all 200t Free Traders are pretty much the same.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Regards
PF
Hi,
Although I like Traveller alot, I've always felt that the way ships in the Official Universe are handled, while OK from a gaming point of view, is probably a little unrealistic in some ways.
I got my first Traveller stuff way back in the days when it was first published before alot of the supplements came out, and I remeber sitting around with friends trying to design up our own ships and even initially trying to design up our own subsector to play in. Once the Spinward Marches and Traders and Gunboats supplements and Mayday game came out we started using them just because it was easier than trying to make all the stuff up ourselves, and having a ready done deckplan was nice.
Ultimately though as time went on I also kind of became of the impression that the assumption that each Far Trader from one end of the 1100 star systems (or whatever the number was) in the empire to the other was built to exactly the same specs seemed kind of unlikely.
At one time I kind of tried to justify it by considering spaceships of the future as modern airplanes or cars of today, where there might be a lot of desire to make the stuff coming off one production line identical to those coming off any other production line, so that they can all be maintained with exactly the same tools and parts.
But even that idea kind of falls apart in that on any given production line you may have different variants of the same basic design being built side by side and over time changes get incorporated into the stuff that's built. I think a plane like the Boeing 737 might be a good example in that the basic plane has undergone many changes over its life and the current New Generation version of the plane has several subgroups within it (such as the 737-600, 737-700, 737-700ER, etc) if I am understanding correctly.
On the other hand if you look at spaceships as kind of similar to modern day ocean going ships then it would seem to me even more likely that the ships built on different worlds of differing tech levels, and with different resources available, would end up being significantly different than each other.
Specifically, I beleive that it isn't all that uncommon even for military ships of the same class, if they are built in different yards, there may be numerous minor differences in detail, and occassionally a few major differences.
Sometimes this is due to differences in the capabilities of the yards building the ships, and sometimes its just due to the fact that they are using different local suppliers for some of the minor components. But either way, it makes me suspect that in such a large empire as described in the official Traveller Universe that it really would be much more likely that if a 200t ship is a useful size then there would be alot of different basic designs of varying tech level and capability in the empire than a single common 200t Standard Free Trader.
But as I noted above, from a gaming point of view its probably a lot easier to assume all 200t Free Traders are pretty much the same.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Regards
PF
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Don't forget, the Vilani are obsessed with tradition and standardisation - if a design worked well enough for your grandfather, why change it? This can be a good thing if you need a replacement widget when you're 20 parsecs from home...
There are variants, though - eg there 3 or 4 versions of the Far Trader.
There are variants, though - eg there 3 or 4 versions of the Far Trader.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
At the "high concept" level, re-imagining the common "Types" of civilian ship for each of the standard hull configurations is a good starting point. This isn't quite as applicable to the military hulls, since their design goals will generally dictate configuration, AND they don't occur in the same nomenclatures as the civvie ships.
Off the top of my head:
All of the Canon Type S variants are wedges. The Serpent is a streamlined Needle or Cylinder, but also departs from the 100 dton standard a bit.
The web has a Slab, a Sphere, and a Flattened Sphere, but these can certainly be revisited.
The Type A/A2 has the Hero class Wedge, the Marava Slab/(double) Cylinder, the Alexandria class Box (FASA), an unnamed class Close Structure/Box (Judges Guild), and two Cylinders and a Shoe in T4. Supposedly the Wind class from Paranoia Press meets the specs of an A/A2, but I haven't looked in a while and they never provided plans, just exterior art.
FASA also did a Zhodani variant which is, you guessed it, a Wedge.
The web has a Sphere and a Flattened Sphere, IIRC.
The Type R has three variants that I recall. The "Fat Trader" is clearly a winged Cylinder (and thus might be considered a Wedge since the wings do contain fuel). The T4 version is also a Cylinder. The Judges Guild version is also in the Cylinder/Wedge regime.
I don't think I've seen any new looks for the Type R on the web...
The Type M also has three variants. Well, three and a half, really. The GDW and FASA versions of this ship are both derived from one of the hulls in the original Battlestar Gallactica's "ragtag fleet", though one is a bit curvier than the other. Both are so odd that I would call them either Close Structures or really stretching the definition of a Box. The T4 version is a sway-backed Cylinder, while the Judges Guild version is a Close/Square Cylinder hull.
Aside from my re-do of the T4 version and the various results of one particular deckplan contest (now vanished but mostly Cylinders with one flying wing), I haven't seen any other variants floating about the web.
The Type Y/K has four hulls. The Shallot class is the original GDW "bug head" unstreamlined Wedge/Box, and the T4 version is similar in shape if not appearance. The Leaping Snowcat Safari Ship is a flying wing. The Y is an unusual case in that the combination of the artwork and having a significant percentage of the hull dedicated to subcraft has made deckplans rare. The Judges Guild version, the usual "Square Cylinder/Close Structure" solved this by just mounting everything to the outside.
The examples on the Web that I've seen tend to be attempts at the Shallot.
The Type T has two hulls. The Lurushaar is the classic "long-necked bug" of CT/MT, and falls firmly in the Needle/Wedge category. The T4 version is a more compact Wedge (that also happens to suffer from more than the usual number of typos).
The one web variant I recall offhand is also a compact Wedge. Hmm...
The Type C has four hulls. The best known is the Broadsword, a Sphere. The T4 version is somewhere in the Wedge/Cylinder regime, while FASA did a Slab configuration research variant. The most obscure would be (as usual) the Judges Guild unstreamlined "Square Cylinder".
The Type L has two hulls. The GDW ring and the T4 Wedge. Something tells me there's another version hiding in a Judges Guild product, but it's not coming to mind beyond that.
Finally (?) the Type P. Art for this ship is fairly limited, probably due more to the supposed ability to swallow a Type S whole and fly off with it than any hatred of pirates as such. There are nonetheless three hulls that I'm aware of in what passes for official print. The Nishemani is the star of late CT and into MT, and is something of an unstreamlined Close/Wedge. It even has some extremely cursory deckplans in an issue of Traveller's Digest. Going back to early CT we find the FASA "Iron Fist", a Slab/Box. The T4 version is a, well, I'm not sure. The art was done from an odd and uninformative perspective.
There are a couple attempts at better plans for the Nishemani out on the web, but nothing "new" as such that I've seen.
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Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
It strikes me that what is REALLY needed, rather than yet another deckplan book that never quite has what you want, is some simple 'drag & drop' style deckplan software. Something that a non-artist can drive without having an instruction book spanning two CDs.
Here's a bed, here's a desk, and a fresher, and a cupboard, and four walls, put them together how you want and save as 'Cabin#1'. Copy and paste, paste paste... etc.
I've been using something called DungeonForge (am I allowed to say that, here?) but its limitations have been undergoing development and the new version seems as fabled as T5 right now.
Here's a bed, here's a desk, and a fresher, and a cupboard, and four walls, put them together how you want and save as 'Cabin#1'. Copy and paste, paste paste... etc.
I've been using something called DungeonForge (am I allowed to say that, here?) but its limitations have been undergoing development and the new version seems as fabled as T5 right now.
So have I... we just need to make some more tiles and equipment to use for Sci-Fi/Traveller...
Made this DP...
*Software would be probably too expensive to make, but using existing would work well enough...
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
We also need some better controls on it, like a zoom feature so you can design something bigger than a Free Trader wthout getting yourself lost, and... and... and...
Or another simple deckplan program with all of the above.
Or another simple deckplan program with all of the above.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Software is a great solution for some portion of the playing populace, but there are quite a few who prefer to open a book and have it already done.
Traders and Gunboats still holds a strong position in a lot of Traveller games of all editions because no subsequent edition or licensee has managed to duplicate its simplicity and utility.
Traders and Gunboats still holds a strong position in a lot of Traveller games of all editions because no subsequent edition or licensee has managed to duplicate its simplicity and utility.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Or its errors...
Arthur Denger
SOC-12
A yearly Traveller calendar is the obvious one (kudos to Andrew, Scarecrow and Jesse!). 
I'll cast my vote for the accessories, too -- unit patches and pins seem like a no-brainer: the set-up and production costs are so reasonable. New, cutting edge technology dice with a more futuristic font than MICR... Bilanidin, maybe?
The Cafepress stuff was a great idea, however a wider variety is needed, both of images and products/styles.
How about a Traveller pda? Black, with red logo, of course. Hey, I can dream, can't I?
I'll cast my vote for the accessories, too -- unit patches and pins seem like a no-brainer: the set-up and production costs are so reasonable. New, cutting edge technology dice with a more futuristic font than MICR... Bilanidin, maybe?
The Cafepress stuff was a great idea, however a wider variety is needed, both of images and products/styles.
How about a Traveller pda? Black, with red logo, of course. Hey, I can dream, can't I?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
So you skipped "Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium" and "T4 Starships" then? Sorry. No contest.
Supp 7 was useful in spite of its errors.
FSotSI was usless because the errors were all in the data, readily caught by trying to match the design...
T4 starships needs an Ob Trav... cause it lacks any obvious traveller uses besides completing a T4 collection.
FSotSI was usless because the errors were all in the data, readily caught by trying to match the design...
T4 starships needs an Ob Trav... cause it lacks any obvious traveller uses besides completing a T4 collection.
A product I'd lilke to see;
Something to help me stay inspired when I write for this game.
I've got about a half dozen unfinished Traveller novellas, about 8 short stories (all finished), and a host of adventure ideas that I've written down, started on, but have found some detail to bog me down or otherwise psychologically torpedo my enthusiasm.
Bleh!
Something to help me stay inspired when I write for this game.
I've got about a half dozen unfinished Traveller novellas, about 8 short stories (all finished), and a host of adventure ideas that I've written down, started on, but have found some detail to bog me down or otherwise psychologically torpedo my enthusiasm.
Bleh!
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Will this help?
Ra ra, go Blue Ghost go. We wanna read your stuff!
Or maybe not.
Ra ra, go Blue Ghost go. We wanna read your stuff!
Or maybe not.
