Travelling in The Fringe - A Near Space interpretation
- Thread starter Diveguy
- Start date
Canon OTU 1 Pc was 1 LY to the oort, then 1 Pc to Proxima C... Alpha/Beta Centares was right on the edge of the oort station's range.
That'll work as a description and concept, as well as anything.
I prefer my settings to give an outline, and let the end user fill in the details that fit - your approach ported from 1500's Earth to 2200's space fits the bill.
#1 - Thanks for the elements from your works that helped inspire this. Definitely enjoy your style of things and it gives me food for thought.
#2 - I see your point with the "Mandarin Hegemony" - I will respectfully counterpoint as to why I chose it. A) - I wanted "Chinese-ruled area without current political baggage"; which this gives. Is it an extension/descendant of the current PRC totalitarian government, a reborn dynastic system, some imperialistic northern Chinese warlords, or something else? Up to the reader/ref to decide. B) - Was also going with the historical (heck, even current) issue of "nations label other nations things" kind of idea. Sure, the UEA calls them the "Mandarins," much as 21st century US refers to "North Korea" - their internal name may be something completely different.
I guess the end result is similar to my above post. I tend to have better results as a ref (and I write better) when I don't try to completely flesh out every detail of a setting before play. Some folks do great with it, but I find it boxes me in. This leaves the door open to a player during the intro session coming up with that unexpected comment which totally puts a new twist on things, all because they read the short description and shared their own idea.
Again, I perfectly see your point, just saying why I went where I did.
So - to sum up a response to this element of the thread chain.
I was faced with two options - ignore my Jump-1 limit, which made things not work in terms of topography mattering. Or, do the best I could. The Near Space setting map postulates a number of brown dwarf objects at convenient points to enable the Jump-1 ships to have a route from Sol to other systems. The link is in the original post to my version of the map - and the original is easily available through DTRPG etc.
Yes, the math isn't always perfect. We can "what-if?" it lots of ways. I was trying to come up with *A* workable solution, not *THE* solution. I certainly get where you're coming from - but hell, we are putting 3 dimensional stars onto a 2 dimensional map; we are postulating FTL travel between said stars, and then working off the idea this leads to successful colonization of worlds miraculously similar to Earth? I can live with a fudge factor on distances.
Be that as it may - I'm simply providing a setting concept. If you want to allow Jump-2, go crazy. If you want to change the scale of Jump distances, I have no complaints. If you prefer Hyperspace Tunneling to Jump technology, I can see the appeal. Guess I'm an old-fashioned guy in saying whatever makes your story work best!
Hmm you could also use Zhōngguó or Celestial Hegemony if you want to play up the "restored Imperial China" angle.
Hmm you could also use Zhōngguó or Celestial Hegemony if you want to play up the "restored Imperial China" angle.
It may be a possible name in use domestically in the Mandarin Hegemony?
Alternatively spend a lot of time building an Oort cloud outpost, use it to locate the biggest object in the Proxima Oort cloud.
Collect as much data as you can, plot the jump and then wish your all volunteer crew good luck
After a few years you build an outpost in the Proxima Oort cloud.
So you have jump 1 travel from earth to the Sol Station, jump 1 to the Proxima Station, jump1 to travel within the centauri cluster.
Think of the fun you can have at those stations, which are effectively bottlenecks of scum and villainy for civilian ethically challenged merchants travelling beyond the solar system or back to the solar system.
Precisely.
One of these outposts are known IMTU as Faust Vegas.
I ended up using the Imperium map, which gives me all those juicy little ratty red star colonies, all bundled together in what I am calling the Centauri main.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The rules are vague in regard to jump driving, so getting a 1.49 parsec difference based on rounding error is a natural way to game the system.
Having gone that route with my monojump speculations, a more acceptable interpretation is probably 1.25 parsecs, a quarter parsec window for each jump factor.
Having gone that route with my monojump speculations, a more acceptable interpretation is probably 1.25 parsecs, a quarter parsec window for each jump factor.
Starships of The Fringe
Like most other things, each of the major polities of The Fringe setting has a general "feel" and appearance to their technology - starship designs being no exception.
- The UEA tends to build their vessels in a wedge/lifting body shape, whether a 100-ton exploration ship, or the 1,000 ton Star Cruisers. As much as feasible, UEA ships are capable of atmospheric entry - both to enable more refueling options, as well as allowing for "show-the-flag" type presence above off-world colonies. UEA ships will emphasize redundant systems and crew safety, as well as ensuring appropriate facilities for morale and health throughout travel.
- French vessels tend to be more "elongated cigars," with turrets and barbettes showing as bulges on the overall ship structure. While they may not be quite as advanced as most UEA vessels, the quality of construction is exceptional.
- Hegemony warships and official vessels (effectively the same thing) have perfected the "Battle Rider" concept. A central vessel will transport 5-20 smaller craft piloted by a human crew; these smaller craft then control individual drone swarms to conduct fighting, maintenance, surveillance or the like. First generation ships were built on extended gantry and cylindrical structures; over the past five years newer Hegemony craft have taken on an almost insectoid appearance in their construction.
- Syndicate starships are utilitarian, rough, and effective. Brute power tends to be emphasized over efficiency, and technology may lag a few years behind the bleeding edge but is reliable and simple to work on. Most Syndicate vessels have just enough streamlining to be able to scoop fuel from a gas giant, relying on small craft for any planetary surface interface.
Of course, multiple other starship designs and variations do exist - this simply outlines general characteristics common to each group.
Another note I left out of the original post - given the need to use gas giants and such for refueling on all but the shortest journeys, all starships are constructed with the ability to use unrefined fuel (and the associated costs).
Like most other things, each of the major polities of The Fringe setting has a general "feel" and appearance to their technology - starship designs being no exception.
- The UEA tends to build their vessels in a wedge/lifting body shape, whether a 100-ton exploration ship, or the 1,000 ton Star Cruisers. As much as feasible, UEA ships are capable of atmospheric entry - both to enable more refueling options, as well as allowing for "show-the-flag" type presence above off-world colonies. UEA ships will emphasize redundant systems and crew safety, as well as ensuring appropriate facilities for morale and health throughout travel.
- French vessels tend to be more "elongated cigars," with turrets and barbettes showing as bulges on the overall ship structure. While they may not be quite as advanced as most UEA vessels, the quality of construction is exceptional.
- Hegemony warships and official vessels (effectively the same thing) have perfected the "Battle Rider" concept. A central vessel will transport 5-20 smaller craft piloted by a human crew; these smaller craft then control individual drone swarms to conduct fighting, maintenance, surveillance or the like. First generation ships were built on extended gantry and cylindrical structures; over the past five years newer Hegemony craft have taken on an almost insectoid appearance in their construction.
- Syndicate starships are utilitarian, rough, and effective. Brute power tends to be emphasized over efficiency, and technology may lag a few years behind the bleeding edge but is reliable and simple to work on. Most Syndicate vessels have just enough streamlining to be able to scoop fuel from a gas giant, relying on small craft for any planetary surface interface.
Of course, multiple other starship designs and variations do exist - this simply outlines general characteristics common to each group.
Another note I left out of the original post - given the need to use gas giants and such for refueling on all but the shortest journeys, all starships are constructed with the ability to use unrefined fuel (and the associated costs).
Well, my default is "Rule 0 - what works for you?"
But, as an answer to what I would use if I were running this: I would mix LBB book 2 limitations and the Hostile setting - in general, most craft are 1000 tons or less; but there exist mining platforms etc (un-self-propelled) which can be an order of magnitude larger. Think Alien and the Nostromo tug platform as a reference point if need be.
This limitation is also primarily in The Fringe - UEA and other forces certainly have some larger ship potentials, but they don't travel out this far, nor are there facilities to support them.
Nice. If you were running this, would there be certain Traveller tech you would ban as not fitting the setting in your mind? Like even if the setting does reach a certain TL, such a tech won't be made because it just doesn't fit?
That's an interesting question I hadn't considered - guess I fell in the trap of "setting beginning is all the tech that ever happens." So, as food for thought (and, it's been an 16-hour work day, I'm not at my best), some general ideas:
Definite "NO"
- FTL comms (the whole delay in information/instructions is part of what I love about CT/LBB settings & the reminder of the days of sail)
- FGMP/PGMP - just no.
- Battle Dress/Mechs - *possibly* in advanced military tech, but definitely not as player items, even in a mercenary type campaign.
- Psionics as an "everyman" type thing. I don't mind them in the campaign, but not as a default thing. Part of why I never got into the Spinward Marches/Zhodani side of CT.
- Easy cloning/regeneration - player/NPC deaths should have consequences. Not that cloning tech doesn't fit, but it's not a freebie ressurection.
- Trillion Credit Squadron/High Guard massive ships as PC elements. Not saying larger vessels aren't out there - but they are rare, expensive and not appropriate to the PC level of play.
- Similarly no black globes, meson crap and the like.
"Maybe"
- Grav vehicles in general use.
- More laser weapon tech (But not "blasters" and the like - The Fringe still is a colony setting)
- *Slight* expansion of Jump-2 tech - I don't want it common, but I could see the start of a version of the "x-boat network" and people paying high-dollar amounts for faster travel or information sharing.
- AI, whether in an NPC or potential PC "android" role. One area I always felt CT lacked was in following the advances in computer technology from 1977 to modern day, and extrapolating appropriately. However, I also don't want the game to devolve into a Cyberpunk hacking extravaganza.
Probably more I could go with, but my brain is fried. Sorry.
Campaign Arcs
I like sandbox settings - because, IMHO, the best games have always come out of the ref and the players collaborating on ideas and what happens. Be that as it may, I also like to imagine stories and how the players would get there. So - given The Fringe as written, here are some (far from exclusive) arcs I can see working (could be solo, or a mix of any of these):
- "Classic Traveller Patrons" - find a job, get some credits, find another job. The setting provides opportunities for this, even if just vignettes between other scenes. Rescues, bounty hunting, exploration and all the classics.
- New Colony Challenges - this wouldn't be my normal route, but if a group wanted to do a prolonged stay on one world, imagine the ways they could help a new colony and residents establish and maintain themselves.
- Revolution - the Proxima rebellion may have been crushed, but that doesn't mean all the rebels are gone. Some people still fight against the abuses of the UEA, and try to bring the masses to their side. Whether it's surgical strikes against UEA forces in The Fringe, or spreading the word by solving problems the UEA can't, Freeborn Humans can still influence the path of humanity.
- Counter-insurgency - Despite the UEA's generosity at the end of the Proxima rebellion, there still exist guerilla forces which threaten the peace and prosperity of the known worlds. Today's war is more one of covert actions and understated events than of grand battles, but that doesn't mean it's not as important.
- The Great Game - United Earth Alliance. The Trading Syndicate. The Mandarin Hegemony. "Unofficial" colonies. The one thing they all have in common is seeking power, and watching the moves of the others. How can the players influence this?
- Empire Building - No, it's not like the UEA is going to let a new polity form within The Fringe. But, an enterprising individual (or group) certainly could build an economic/criminal/blended financial behemoth. Of course, others are trying to do the same.
- Xenomorphs Suck. It's obvious that humanity only survives through hard work and technology in The Fringe. The bad part is, some of the native life forms are downright inminicable towards our species. Once a group shows an affinity for defeating these threats, it's not a stretch to imagine other colonies or companies recruiting them to do the same.
- First Contact - We know at least three intelligent alien species existed in our small area of the universe in the past - it's foolish to think that none do at this point in time. Some day we will meet them, and everything will change.
- Secret Histories - Whether it's facist bases established in the solar system long ago, or Martian influences on human events, or Forerunner seeding of the galaxy, there are *always* secrets. Do the players hide them or expose them? And, what do they change?
I like sandbox settings - because, IMHO, the best games have always come out of the ref and the players collaborating on ideas and what happens. Be that as it may, I also like to imagine stories and how the players would get there. So - given The Fringe as written, here are some (far from exclusive) arcs I can see working (could be solo, or a mix of any of these):
- "Classic Traveller Patrons" - find a job, get some credits, find another job. The setting provides opportunities for this, even if just vignettes between other scenes. Rescues, bounty hunting, exploration and all the classics.
- New Colony Challenges - this wouldn't be my normal route, but if a group wanted to do a prolonged stay on one world, imagine the ways they could help a new colony and residents establish and maintain themselves.
- Revolution - the Proxima rebellion may have been crushed, but that doesn't mean all the rebels are gone. Some people still fight against the abuses of the UEA, and try to bring the masses to their side. Whether it's surgical strikes against UEA forces in The Fringe, or spreading the word by solving problems the UEA can't, Freeborn Humans can still influence the path of humanity.
- Counter-insurgency - Despite the UEA's generosity at the end of the Proxima rebellion, there still exist guerilla forces which threaten the peace and prosperity of the known worlds. Today's war is more one of covert actions and understated events than of grand battles, but that doesn't mean it's not as important.
- The Great Game - United Earth Alliance. The Trading Syndicate. The Mandarin Hegemony. "Unofficial" colonies. The one thing they all have in common is seeking power, and watching the moves of the others. How can the players influence this?
- Empire Building - No, it's not like the UEA is going to let a new polity form within The Fringe. But, an enterprising individual (or group) certainly could build an economic/criminal/blended financial behemoth. Of course, others are trying to do the same.
- Xenomorphs Suck. It's obvious that humanity only survives through hard work and technology in The Fringe. The bad part is, some of the native life forms are downright inminicable towards our species. Once a group shows an affinity for defeating these threats, it's not a stretch to imagine other colonies or companies recruiting them to do the same.
- First Contact - We know at least three intelligent alien species existed in our small area of the universe in the past - it's foolish to think that none do at this point in time. Some day we will meet them, and everything will change.
- Secret Histories - Whether it's facist bases established in the solar system long ago, or Martian influences on human events, or Forerunner seeding of the galaxy, there are *always* secrets. Do the players hide them or expose them? And, what do they change?
Sixteen hour day or not. your setting becomes more interesting with every post you make!
Let me suggest that useful psionics is not an "everyman" type of thing. While the Classic RAW says everyone has a psionic strength rating:
- If not identified it decays with age.
- If identified it may not be high enough to be useful.
- It requires training to access.
- Even after training there's a chance no useful skill(s) will achieved.
Take a look at Classic's psionic rules again, especially the initial strength throw, the six Talents throws, and the costs associated with seemingly minor activities. Useful psionic talents don't occur as often as we think.
That expansion would be a good reason why Jump-1 ships are now within the financial reach of individuals, small groups, and small companies. Let me use the Suez Canal as an example.
Finished in 1867, the Canal allowed steamer to finally compete along Europe to India routes. Their need to refuel after a certain distance, which was tied to engine efficiency, meant they hadn't been able to compete economically on longer routes no matter if fuel was available or not. The Canal put India within "range" of steamers, that put a lot of sailing ships out of work, and that put a lot of sailing on the market at cheap prices. (The fact that sailing ships had to be towed through the Canal and couldn't easily sail northwards in the Red Sea for parts of the year helped too.)
The expansion of Jump-2 is going to put a lot of Jump1 ships out of work which will put a lot of those ships on the market at cheap prices. Prices the PCs or the kinds of patrons who may hire them may be able to swing.
Other than Psionics, which I usually include in my settings, this is very much to my taste. Near-future, "hard" tech, tech looking like tech and not magic.
Avoiding grav vehicles means more opportunities to you your ATV, tilt-rotor/VTOL, and other cool low-tech vehicles of the Alien(s) flavor. OV did not have grav vehicles for that reason, as grav generators were quite large - enough for shipboard gravitics but too heavy for an air/raft.
YES! Every madman with a budget can now charter a ship; a rich madman can buy a ship outright. The J-1 Solar Main is finite, but sparsely colonized the further you go from Earth. So all crackpot attempts at illegal research, Utopian societies, and cults will be likely to spring out on various secondary rockballs on the The Fringe. In some cases even on Mainworlds!
Mostly failed - colonizing space is hard - but enough material for all sorts of espionage, crime, and horrors.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Agree, this is a very interesting set up.
No grav vehicles in a setting...
does that mean no artificial gravity and no acceleration compensation? How do you make it stand out from say T2300?
A setting without artificial gravity and air/rafts is very different to one with, even if you make grav generators so large you need something the size of a ship to have them.
You then have the issue of how to handwave the technology that grants ships multi-g acceleration without being mostly fuel tank, or do you handwave magic gravitics again?
Orbital springs to mind as being the hardest published sci fi setting I have seen for Traveller.
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