Turning to the Board

[JustinInOz]

One of the players is a marquis. We decided that it would be a bit boring for the others players if they were constantly playing his lackeys. So we decided that he was a wastrel son on a stipend until there was a cup on the planet. The head of the family, the sitting marquis, was tried and executed after the coup. Maybe he got “sick and died” awaiting trial.

This leads us to the central theme of the game. The structure of the campaign is loosely based upon the Odyssey. That is episodic adventures that lead toward a hostile homecoming. The players are trying to gather friends and resources to retake what is rightfully theirs. The meddling gods of the Odyssey are played by Megacorps – you can escape their notice, placate them or play them off against one another. You can not take them on and win.

Where I am not sure and I am turning to the collective minds, memories and creativity of the list is how the wider Empire would react to such events. I have read through a few accounts of 3rd Imperium nobility. They mostly cover what happens in the normal course of events. They do not address what happens outside of this. I imagine that this is due to the explosion of possibility that occurs when you step off of the yellow brick road. They don’t have the space or the imagination to cover it all. The exception to this is the assassination of Strephon and what follows.

So, back to the situation. I have assumed that the on planet parties who lead and/or befitted from the coup were backed by some megacorp. This megacorp has become the new “patron god” of the planet. Through play it has come up that the new government is a democracy of some sort. Democrat has become a dirty word. It is clear, at least to me, that the new government has fulfilled its financial obligations to the Empire. That being the payment of naval taxes and the permission of unfettered travel and commerce. To do less than these minimums would be to invite invasion and reconquest by imperial troops.

The real question is what would happen to the seat of the Marquisate? Could the player present himself to the sector duke and get recognised in the next birthday list? Would no one bat an eye if the players came in with mercenary cruiser and retook the planet? Could the megacorp who sponsored the coup put forward a different candidate (probably a noble from their shareholders) to occupy the seat of the marquis in the moot? How would the Imperium react to such events? What do they do when a populace rejects a noble but embraces the Empire?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

A "cup on the planet"? Oh, a coup.... I thought you meant he was a lush.

I would think the assassination of a noble would tend to draw the attention of the Imperium. After all, nobility is given by the Emperor or by the Moot, and knocking off one of his appointees in that fashion would sort of delegitimize the new government. Unless the Emperor wanted the guy gone in the first place. It would tend to set a bad precedent, though, by having him guillotined by the mobs - rather than yanking his patent and putting in the new guy himself. A really bad precedent. I doubt they would just let it go.

Of course, all of this is OTU. What you do in YTU is up to you, as long as everyone is having fun (including you).

BTW, democracies almost never come from coups. Mob rule is not really democracy, and it tends to degenerate into things like the French Reign of Terror. Especially when they're offing the nobles.... Of course, if you want to go the Scarlet Pimpernel route, that could be interesting....

 

[JustinInOz]

I take your point about democracies rarely rising from a coup d etat. I am looking at the way that traveller has a pretty wide ranging scope as to what a democracy is.

As to the previous Marquis and his demise, it is possible that his death in custody could be such that it was plausible that he died naturally. Perhaps he was tried for psionics use? Or something equally reprehensible so that no jury would convict his gaolers.

You are right about not setting a precedent. I do see that reactions to events in the 'Marches would be different than at the Core. Out on the perimeter of the Empire it might be better to have a complying (post coup/revolutionary) government rather than some Zhod sympathising mind blasting Marquis. Maybe they would scold the planet for not waiting till the Psionic Inquisitors turned up to do him properly. But the Empirte does strike me as being pragmatic above all else.

How do you think the Empire would react to a reconquest of the planet by the drunkard lush son of the deposed Marquis?

 

[JustinInOz]

As far as the previous Marquis goes, let us say that whoever was responisble for his death, be that a gaoler, a judge or a mob, they have been punished by the new regime. This was probably done so that those in power could not be blamed for his demise.

Maybe the post coup d etat government was not so strong and a popular revolution took hold after. These ones are the bloody democrats!

 

[Golan2072]

A coup and a popular revolution are entirely different things - a coup is done by a small group (typically of military officers or of officials of the old government) replacing one tyrant with another (or worse, replaces a democracy with a dictatorship), while a popular revolution involves the action of the masses and changes far more than that... If it is successful, that is.

Anyway, the way I see it play on your world, the Marquis served Corp A's interests, and Corp B, wishing to do a hostile takeover of the local economy, began supporting the opposition. I'd imagine the opposition starting out as a genuine anti-government group wishing to get rid of the old corrupt regime and replace it with a more democratic one; Corp B has managed to bribe and corrupt that group and turn it into its tool. Now, with the help of mercs financed by Corp B, a coup placed the opposition - now Corp B's puppet - in power. The new regime calls itself democratic and has a democratic outer form - a parliament, periodic elections, a president, even multiple parties - but all parties and politicians allowed to take part in the elections are puppets for Corp B.

And trust Corp B's media devision to play up on the old regime's (partially real, for the very least) corruption to show the Imperial authorities that the coup is actually in the interest of the Imperium...

Now, by the time the character will return to his homeworld, the masses will probably be quite disappointed with the so-called "democracy". So he could either re-install himself as a Marquis by force of arms (and be unpopular, but not less popular than the "democracy") or fight to bring real democracy and run to office as the people's hero (and end up a very popular president).

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Oh - one point here to remember: the Marquis isn't necessarily the head of the local government. He may "administer" the local planet for the Imperium, but the government on the planet has nothing to do with him (normally, in canon). The Imperium doesn't care (that much) what kind of government the planet has (as long as they don't threaten trade, practice slavery, or use nukes, basically).

Normally, the Marquis is there to make sure things like coup d'etats and revolutions don't affect trade, use nukes, etc. He may directly run the government behind the scenes in some places, but he's not the government usually.

That being said, everyone else has good inputs.

 

[Agemegos]

I think that the Imperium has to take a very dim view of these proceedings. For the population of a planet to overthrow their own government is neither here nor there. For them to depose an Imperial marquis from his post, and especially to put someone else in his place is a disastrous precedent, one which threatens the continued existence of the Imperium itself. It is high treason, and the Imperium has to pound it so flat that the echoes of the pounding resound from the Zhodani Consulate to the Hiver Federation, and so that Aslans will be telling the story to Vargr when the last human is killed and eaten.

The Imperium cannot survive if its subordinates get the idea that it is worth trying to overthrow its officers by force. So it has to make sure that no-one in any way connected with this coup profits by it in anyway. History is full of analogues that would see the planet burned to bedrock, bombed into the Stone Age, or subjected to a death lottery in which 90% of the population was obliged to beat the other 10% to death with sticks. At very least, expect Judge Jeffreys and the Bloody Assizes to ride again. The megacorporate officers who organised the coup might have molten gold pouted down their throats, while their supervisors might be obliged to spend the rest of their brief lives standing up to their necks in vinegar. A really vigorous Empire would wind up the megacorps involved and confiscate their net assets.

Even some loyal Imperials are probably in a lot of trouble. The marquis's direct superior and the subsector duke ought to have seen this coming and stopped it. That is what they are there for, after all. So there is going to be a close inquiry into what in fact they knew, whether they had enough information to anticipate the coup, and how diligent and effective they were about hearing appeals from a disaffected planet, collating information from reports, and gathering intelligence through inspections, liaison officers, informants, and secret agents. An Emperor with a sense of humour would bomb the planet back into the Iron Age and send the former subsector duke there as its new governor, so that the two parties involved (from the Imperium's point of view) can spend the rest of their lives making each other miserable.

Anyway, I reckon that the megacorps in your scenario have bitten off a lot more than they can chew, and will be lucky to get away with having their jaws prised off with a car jack. Getting back to your Homeric theme, in the end Poseidon and Athene are going be read the riot act according to the Iliad book VIII. About a year after the coup Duke Moira, Lord Chief Justice of the Imperial Supreme Court of High Chivalry is going to show up from Capital with a grand jury of dukes, an Imperial Atrocity Corps, and a warrant giving her powers so sweeping that they make a sector duke's eyes water. As a demonstration of the irresistible character of Imperial law, Duke Moira is going to see to it that the proper heir of the late marquis is properly installed in his post, and that there is a general wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Ishmael]

The Imperium cannot survive if its subordinates get the idea that it is worth trying to overthrow its officers by force. So it has to make sure that no-one in any way connected with this coup profits by it in anyway. History is full of analogues that would see the planet burned to bedrock, bombed into the Stone Age, or subjected to a death lottery in which 90% of the population was obliged to beat the other 10% to death with sticks. At very least, expect Judge Jeffreys and the Bloody Assizes to ride again. The megacorporate officers who organised the coup might have molten gold pouted down their throats, while their supervisors might be obliged to spend the rest of their brief lives standing up to their necks in vinegar. A really vigorous Empire would wind up the megacorps involved and confiscate their net assets.

-
naw....nothing will happen so long as tax revenues aren't interrupted...hell, the Imps may praise the new gov for getting rid of a cad and bounder and thief if tax revenues increase a bit. How can the megacorps be punished by the Imps when the highest levels of Impie government OWN huge percentages of the megacorps' holdings? That'd mean they would be punishing themselves....Punishments would occur if there was no profits from this; only loses and given the way Vilani operate, maybe losses are acceptable in the short term but the new gov better make up for it in the long term.

Imperium only cares about money ( which is why they don't get involved in wars unless trade is hurt or megacorps trade wars...ummm..unless trade is hurt. )

I view megacorps as a group of 'shadow' states which overlap Imp borders mostly and fight their own wars and do their own diplomacy and world taming while treating markets as territory and constantly trying to take over other megacorp's territories. The Imperium simply keeps things from getting out of hand so trade continues.
Kind of like the United Nations but with real teeth. ( but because they're part-owners, you can be certain that they won't bite down toooo hard. )

The golden rule...he who has the most gold, rules....( even if their PR department says to stay behind the scenes and out of sight.)

 

[Agemegos]

naw....nothing will happen so long as tax revenues aren't interrupted...hell, the Imps may praise the new gov for getting rid of a cad and bounder and thief if tax revenues increase a bit.

Then they are idiots, and they are all going to die. Once the planets have the idea that they can overthrow their Imperial governors with impunity they'll soon get the idea that they don't have to pay tax.

How can the megacorps be punished by the Imps when the highest levels of Impie government OWN huge percentages of the megacorps' holdings?

By fines, for example. The Imperium might own a large percentage of megacorporate stock, but it own 100% of fine revenue.

By revoking the megacorps' charters, winding them up, and keeping their net assets. Again, the Imperium bears part of the loss, but it gets all the gain.

By putting megacorporate managers to a gruesome death when they commit high treason. Doesn't affect the bottom line, but it imposes a cogent incentive on future megacorporate activity.

That'd mean they would be punishing themselves....Punishments would occur if there was no profits from this; only loses and given the way Vilani operate, maybe losses are acceptable in the short term but the new gov better make up for it in the long term.

How can the Imperium survive if it allows the megacorps to overthrow and kill its governors?

Imperium only cares about money

That is egregiously stupid. The Imperium ought also to care about its own continued existence.

I view megacorps as a group of 'shadow' states which overlap Imp borders mostly and fight their own wars and do their own diplomacy and world taming while treating markets as territory and constantly trying to take over other megacorp's territories. The Imperium simply keeps things from getting out of hand so trade continues.

Things have got out of hand when a megacorp decides to usurp Imperial government.

Kind of like the United Nations but with real teeth. ( but because they're part-owners, you can be certain that they won't bite down toooo hard. )

Part-owners of the stock. Full owners of the fine revenue. And they have an interest in staying in charge.

The golden rule...he who has the most gold, rules....( even if their PR department says to stay behind the scenes and out of sight.)

If the megacorps play on as you suggest, soon there will be no sandbox.

The Don of a protection racket might not care if two of his made men jostle a bit over territory. And he doesn't give a damn if the shopkeepers 'enjoying his protection' black each others' eyes. But if the shopkeepers of a neighbourhood seize and kill one of his collection agents and "appoint their own" collection agent he wants them dead, their families dead, and their houses burned to the ground. Because if he doesn't, he won't be don for long, and would never have become don in the first place.

Taking the other view, what say the Mayor of New York arrested and executed the US Marshal for the Southern District of New Your, and appointed his own US Marshal for the district. Do you think the government of the USA would be happy so long as New Yorkers kept paying their income tax? Hell no!

 

[Icosahedron]

For what it's worth, I agree with the hard-liners.

The Marquis is the voice of the Emperor. If he is executed, the planet must be trashed to avoid setting a precedent. In fact even deposing/arresting him will have this effect.

If he died 'accidentally' without being officially arrested, there will still be a huge inqiry, and, as others have suggested, heads will roll in various quarters. If imperial intervention is witheld, other nobles might start having 'accidents'.

Either way, this will be a matter of high personal importance to the Emperor, and if the inquisition finds that the son is not worthy, he will be swept aside as part of the cleansing process and a new, iron-fisted Marquis will be tasked with keeping an eye on the place.

At the very least, that world will be under martial law for a generation or two.

No attack, or suspicion of attack, on the Imperial Nobility can be tolerated.

 

[Ishmael]

without know the circumstances behind the coup except that it was engineered by a megacorp, noone can say what will happen. Perhaps the coup just because the old Marquis was on the order of Caligula. Or perhaps Imperial interests within the megacorp decided to 'remove' him for unknown reasons or even as part of court intrigues.

The planet, by continuing to meet its obligations to the Imperium shows its loyalty to the Imperium. Presumably, the continuation of paying taxes would imply that the starport(s), the real Imperial interests on the planet, were not touched. Trade is not interupted.

of course, how inept is the Imp intelligence agencies to not know what is going on and take steps to steer it in a direction that benefits the Imperium....

or how stupid is the upper levels to not make a stink about things whle the marquis sits in a cell waiting to hang. THAT's when the Imperium should have made its move, not ignore it.

 

[atpollard]

Then they are idiots, and they are all going to die. Once the planets have the idea that they can overthrow their Imperial governors with impunity they'll soon get the idea that they don't have to pay tax.

... and before you know it, we have the Emperor being assainated, a Rebellion, a Virus and the colapse of the Imperium.

 

[chshrkt]

... and before you know it, we have the Emperor being assainated, a Rebellion, a Virus and the colapse of the Imperium.

Vargr and Aslan living together... Mass histeria!

 

[davebill]

Did the Marquis who got off-ed get replaced by a legitimate heir (ie another member of the extended family/clan of the ruling family) who happens to be in the pocket of/backed by Megacorp B?

Inheritance by eldest child isn't a given, even under canon - often the senior members of a clan/extended family will effectively elect the next holder of a position who serves in the best interestes of the FAMILY, then the Imperium.

Depends upon how much control Capital has - a 'legitimate' successor who already has strong backing and has pacified the area by the time the Imperial Inquisitors arrive will probably get Imperial approval. There is the whole 'Right of Succession through Assassination' thing for Imperial precedence (see the Library Data books).

So, your Odysseus character could be really up against it if Uncle Eviltrousers, with the backing of Slimeycorp, is now Marquis after the previous Marquis suffered a fatal accident - and what could be more fatal than falling backwards onto a salad fork thirty-seven times? - and has installed a 'democratic government' on the homeworld. Odysseus has either got to win over the Family factions and unseat Uncle Eviltrousers; or "pop a cap" in Uncle Eviltrousers' "ass" to replace him by Right of Assassination - though without some serious backing this could be a shortcut to an extended stay in an oubliette; or do the military campaign thing by raising an army/fleet and come stormin' in.

Sounds like lots of fun.

My Traveller campaign is set in a frontier sector where Imperial power is weak and the bulk of expansion and defence falls on the resources of the Major Houses. This has the side effect that there is a constant tension between the Sector Ducal House (with Imperial backing) and their retainers and the Subsector Dukes and their retainers. A lot of nobles end up with truncated careers as they tend to lead their fleets and armies from the front.

David

 

[Icosahedron]

Yes, I think 'domestic/family incident' is the one situation in which the Imperium would take a back seat - though the inquisitors would still arrive and do their job. This is the only coup I can see wherein the legitimate incumbent would be replaced by a legitimate heir, even if it's not the next-in-line. Of course, if 'Eviltrousers' now has the backing of Imperial sanction, the PC could find even more problems.

Perhaps the Odessey is a race against time to unseat Eviltrousers before the Imperial Delegation arrives to ratify whichever family member is holding the seat? In which case, he probably needs to watch his back, too.
This could be a deadly game of musical chairs. :devil:

 

[davebill]

Perhaps the Odessey is a race against time to unseat Eviltrousers before the Imperial Delegation arrives to ratify whichever family member is holding the seat? In which case, he probably needs to watch his back, too.
This could be a deadly game of musical chairs.

And just tying it back to the Odyssey (I assume we're talking Homer and not the famous Irish writer whose name escapes me ), Odysseus arrives home to find a house full of guys attempting to marry his wife, while spending all his money, and his son in, literally, fear for his life. Big O shows up in disguise, gets his hands on his heirloom FGMP-15 - sorry, mighty-bow-which-no-mere-man-might-draw, and cuts lose in that delightfully Classical Greek way that ensures his story gets bumped from 'G' to 'M' rating.

Which suggests that the Player Characters could try the 'infiltrate the hostile stronghold' plan as opposed to the 'raise a fleet and an army and attack the palace' plan which sounds an awful lot like the prequel to 'The Odyssey'

Please keep us updated as to how it goes - I'd love to hear whether the remake is as successful as the original

David

 

[Daneel Olivaw]

What you do in YTU is up to you, as long as everyone is having fun (including you).

Hear, hear!

I love your "Odyssey" idea - great template for a campaign!

The Imperium's response to the coup and the Marquis' death will depend on how important the world and the person were to the Imperium. For example, the PCs may eventually uncover a vast conspiracy in which the Marquis and/or the world played key roles. The PCs could end up fighting or aiding the conspiracy, leading to the confrontation with conspirators, usurpers or betrayers at the end.

There are so many possibilities here... enjoy!

 

[robject]

Did the Marquis who got off-ed get replaced by a legitimate heir (ie another member of the extended family/clan of the ruling family) who happens to be in the pocket of/backed by Megacorp B?

Agree with the above. A marquisate can be an inheritable patent, and "local troubles" which end up with the Marquis in a pine box will always be a mixed bag for the Imperium -- which is absofreaklinglutely huge -- some will win politically and some will lose.

But in the large scheme of things, powerful men don't get bumped off unless more powerful men have given up cajoling and threatening them. So if you're looking for an ultimate culprit, I'd start my search with an adjacent marquis, or a regional Count.

Another plot twist one might consider is that the marquis is only presumed dead, but in reality is imprisoned aboard the Gaesh -- an orbital prison hulk special-made for political prisoners who must never see the light of day. Nosy People who Learned Too Much about how the Imperium really works (whatever that means).

Anyhoo, I also like your tapping into the Odysseus epic, and agree that an infiltration might be more interesting than coming in guns blazing from a fleet. Or you could do both: a fleet to hit the defenses, and then an infiltration force to take the palace.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

The one possibility to avoid all the Imperium entanglements would be for the noble to be only a planetary noble. He's only a peer in the Imperium, but he's a high noble on the planet. Then you get all the intrigue you're looking for, without the Imperium giving a whit.

I do like the Odysseus idea....

 

[Agemegos]

The one possibility to avoid all the Imperium entanglements would be for the noble to be only a planetary noble. He's only a peer in the Imperium, but he's a high noble on the planet. Then you get all the intrigue you're looking for, without the Imperium giving a whit.

Good idea. An Imperial peer is officially supposed to be immune from sentences of death passed by planetary courts, but the Imperium won't get as steamed up about enforcing that rule as it would about planets presuming to overthrow, kill, and replace the Imperium's actual governors--what GURPS Traveller: Nobles calls 'high nobility'.