• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Two Sphere Ship

... rarely does anyone do something like this purely for looks ...

Warships would be more interested in surviving battle. Cargo freighters are more interested in keeping costs low and making most efficient use of cargo space. But if it's pretty, it's either a passenger liner or some sort of luxury ship.

Passenger ships, they gotta persuade prospective passengers to pick them over the competition, and that requires tickling their fancy in some way. Looks would be a key part of marketing the ship to prospective passengers.

Me, I'm a big fan of Borg efficiency.
 
Me, I'm a big fan of Borg efficiency.

In which case you make spheres, not cubes, as spheres have the lowest ratio of surface area to internal volume, thus reducing the ratio of hull armor to total ship mass.

In addition, the entire external hull benefits from the "arch strength" principle, making a hull with exceptional strength for the mass.
 
In which case you make spheres, not cubes, as spheres have the lowest ratio of surface area to internal volume, thus reducing the ratio of hull armor to total ship mass.

In addition, the entire external hull benefits from the "arch strength" principle, making a hull with exceptional strength for the mass.

Depends on whether I'm flying a transport or a warship, I think. Also depends on the battle tactics planned. If I'm expecting to trade fire at long range using beam weapons, a torpedo shape with an up-armored nose and stern might be better - presents less of a target. Wedge works too - you're hitting the armored surface at a sharp angle, therefore having to plow through more armor to get at my soft innards. I see sphere as a "bar-fight" kind of shape: don't know which direction fire is gonna come from, so protect from all directions and maximize your ability to pivot and change direction quickly. Maybe better if you're expecting to receive a lot of missile fire.

Getting back to the butted spheres thing, I can think of only a couple reasons one would want a multisphere ship like that:
1. Aesthetics: Look cool, attract customers, make money.
2. Need: you want to be able to easily isolate one sphere from the others - as in a prison transport, bioresearch vessel, a ship with the kind of drives that might need to be jettisoned in a hurry, that kind of thing.

I recall once seeing an interstellar "slowboat" design, sub-C, big spherical fuel tank up front with the rest of the ship strung out on a boom behind that, smaller living section about midway down the boom, drive section farther back, the idea being that the big sphere acted as a shield at near-c speeds with the other sections basically in its shadow. I don't think the artist thought it through - when the ship turned about to decelerate, the sphere would then be trailing instead of leading. However, two spheres with the living section between and the drives aft of the second sphere would do that job okay.
 
...I don't think the artist thought it through - when the ship turned about to decelerate, the sphere would then be trailing instead of leading.

Or perhaps the exhaust of the thruster would provide sufficient deflection to protect the rest of the ship, being behind the exhaust bloom...

...my issue with such at one time was the most realistic thruster would probably involve high radiation of it's own which the ship would be continuing to plow through as it decelerated.
 
I once sketched out a "heavy cruiser" after GDW published the Broadsword deck plans that was essentially two spheres linked fore and aft by a short waist, like a fat dumbbell. The aft sphere was mostly fuel and drives, the forward was crew and cargo. It wasn't pure, since I ran two cutter wells up the long axis, and wrapped fuel tanks around the outer parts of the spheres, like in the Broadsword. I wasn't really thinking in terms of function, just trying to create a quick variant ship.
 
Spheres are the most stable structure (look to nature), irl, most ships would be spheres. However, it would be terribly boring, but that still doesn't explain completely ridiculous designs like the A2 with its bridge in a sponson. Looking at that from an engineering standpoint is hilarious; blame Mos Eisley I guess.
 
Lucas has a lot to answer for... as does Roddenberry.

I mean, a starship designed specifically to envoke an impression of the masts and bow of a sailing ship?

Warp nacelles at the end of long unsupported pylons?

At least many of the later Trek designs minimized the length of any pylons... made them thicker, and balanced them with regard to thrust-lines vs mass centers.
 
Agreed, one hard hit and the structure would be shedding those nacelles, same with the sponson for the Millenium Falcon or Far Trader where the bridge is. And yes, for thrust, it would always be along the axis of center of mass, or not outside of 45 degrees from it.
 
Problem 1 with y'alls thinking re Trek: Warp Drives don't do thrust. They warp space around the ship (according to the writer's guide for TOS). Since it's bending spacetime, not providing thrust, the ship's just carried along on the wavefront, essentially in freefall. So the long pylons aren't a major structural stress issue.

Problem 2: Trek ship design wasn't written with science in mind - it was simply for cool factor and distinctive look. And, boy howdy, it was distinctive.
 
Problem 1 with y'alls thinking re Trek: Warp Drives don't do thrust. They warp space around the ship (according to the writer's guide for TOS). Since it's bending spacetime, not providing thrust, the ship's just carried along on the wavefront, essentially in freefall. So the long pylons aren't a major structural stress issue.

Problem 2: Trek ship design wasn't written with science in mind - it was simply for cool factor and distinctive look. And, boy howdy, it was distinctive.

However, the impulse engines DO "do thrust"... which leaves the warp nacelles bouncing around at the ends of long whippy stalks, mounted on the other side of the thrust axis from the nacelles!

Every time Enterprise does one of its famous "under impulse drive" "throw the crew across the bridge" maneuvers, there is tremendous stress on those pylons.


This is an example of where the "rule of cool" doesn't work!
 
There is no proof that impulse drive in ST is in any way a reaction drive in TOS nor TAS, and there are several indications that it's simply a low-effect form of warp drive... Carefully examine the dialogue in Balance of Terror.

You'll note that an "impulse only" ship was able to cross several light years of neutral zone in a few days.

Other episodes as well point to impulse drives being FTL capable.

I used to disbelieve SVC on that issue, but, in checking the transcripts, indeed, there is plenty of indication that the so-called Impulse drive is FTL capable, and thus not a thruster.
 
Wasn't there a civilian ship with just impulse drive in TOS too, that seemed to get around quite well? Was it Harry Mudd's little trader? Or am I thinking of something else?
 
There is no proof that impulse drive in ST is in any way a reaction drive in TOS nor TAS, and there are several indications that it's simply a low-effect form of warp drive... Carefully examine the dialogue in Balance of Terror.

You'll note that an "impulse only" ship was able to cross several light years of neutral zone in a few days.

Other episodes as well point to impulse drives being FTL capable.

I used to disbelieve SVC on that issue, but, in checking the transcripts, indeed, there is plenty of indication that the so-called Impulse drive is FTL capable, and thus not a thruster.
TOS yes, but by the time of STNG, DSN, STV the pseudo science had been tightened up and both the warp drive and impulse engines retconned to give the warp drive a max factor of 10 and impulse engines to be sublight only.

STE, which canonically predates TOS, also used the evolved tech parameters.
 
TOS yes, but by the time of STNG, DSN, STV the pseudo science had been tightened up and both the warp drive and impulse engines retconned to give the warp drive a max factor of 10 and impulse engines to be sublight only.

STE, which canonically predates TOS, also used the evolved tech parameters.

In TNG in the episode where they discovered Scotty, at the end of the episode they "gave" him one of their shuttles, and it was implied that the shuttle was FTL capable so he could roam the spaceways doing the Traveller thing.
 
Even in TOS there were special shuttles specified to have warp drives installed.

There are many technical errors in the TOS episodes... if we accepted every one as being "right" and "canon", then briefing rooms would have doors through the outer hull, and so on.

Just because a couple of episodes had sloppy writing about what a drive was capable of, and which drive a given ship had, doesn't make them "right".

It was stated specifically in at least one episode that with the warp drive gone the Enterprise would take years (and possibly decades) to reach the nearest system... hardly the stuff of even a minimal FTL drive.
 
Last edited:
In TNG in the episode where they discovered Scotty, at the end of the episode they "gave" him one of their shuttles, and it was implied that the shuttle was FTL capable so he could roam the spaceways doing the Traveller thing.
By the time of STNG warp drives are much smaller and can be installed in craft as smallas shuttles.

ST:TMP has Spock join the Enterprise on s shuttle connected to a warp sled, makes sense that years later the warp sled and suttle are combined.

Then look at the Vulcan ship Spock had in the new Star Trek film, much the same size as a shuttle but capable of very fast warp travel.
 
Back
Top