Type X Starports

[Pickles]

I have a real problem with the way X starports have been handled in the OTU. If you go by the LBB3 definition, X just means that there is no place designated for landing. Nothing about interdiction. In practice, however, that's exactly how it has been used. That just does not make sense to me.

Fine. Say some outside power interdicts a planet. Does that mean it's completely cut off? What are the chances of even a naval blockade stopping all traffic entering or leaving the system? Pretty slim, I would say. Now, cut that down to some automated beacons and a few patrol cruisers, and it becomes more of a gesture than an enforcable border.

So, why should an interdicted world have no starport? Just because the neighbours don't want people coming or going, does that mean the inhabitants are just going to knuckle under? The only thing which would stop them from continuing their own interstellar activities would be continual bombardment of facilities by the blockading power, which would be a bit extreme (but might fit in with the 'dark imperium' idea).

In other words, I advocate decoupling Travel Zones from Starport Types, the way it was in the beginning.

 

[Pickles]

I have a real problem with the way X starports have been handled in the OTU. If you go by the LBB3 definition, X just means that there is no place designated for landing. Nothing about interdiction. In practice, however, that's exactly how it has been used. That just does not make sense to me.

Fine. Say some outside power interdicts a planet. Does that mean it's completely cut off? What are the chances of even a naval blockade stopping all traffic entering or leaving the system? Pretty slim, I would say. Now, cut that down to some automated beacons and a few patrol cruisers, and it becomes more of a gesture than an enforcable border.

So, why should an interdicted world have no starport? Just because the neighbours don't want people coming or going, does that mean the inhabitants are just going to knuckle under? The only thing which would stop them from continuing their own interstellar activities would be continual bombardment of facilities by the blockading power, which would be a bit extreme (but might fit in with the 'dark imperium' idea).

In other words, I advocate decoupling Travel Zones from Starport Types, the way it was in the beginning.

 

[far-trader]

That's odd, when and where did it change from being seperate notations and X became synonymous Red Zone? Is my memory slipping? Or is it a GT thing?

The way I've always read it and played it is:

E = A marked landing point. Either a beacon or some landmarks and a notation of coordinates on the navigation charts. No facilities beyond that. But if you do go there you know the place is safe for landings, as in the ground will support a starship and it's not prone to natural disasters every day.

X = Nothing. Landings are not advised. No points have been marked, no study has been done, you land at your own risk and pick your own place. And there's every chance that the place you pick could be the top of volcano about to blow or a sinkhole ready to swallow your ship, or a hundred million other nasty ways to die or worse.

Red Zones are a TAS advisory, usually due to Imperial Interdiction but not always. Local unrest can lead to a Red Zone classification so it's important to keep your Library program and TAS membership up to date.

Amber Zones are softer than Red but similar. The chances of death are not great but you may be inconvienced.

So a Red Zone could see you killed in an all out local war, or sentenced to life on an Imperial Prison Planet if it's an interdicted world. While an Amber Zone would just mean delays in clearing SPA during local unrest or perhaps a fine if violating an interdiction.

That's my take on it. Always has been, likely always will be.

 

[far-trader]

That's odd, when and where did it change from being seperate notations and X became synonymous Red Zone? Is my memory slipping? Or is it a GT thing?

The way I've always read it and played it is:

E = A marked landing point. Either a beacon or some landmarks and a notation of coordinates on the navigation charts. No facilities beyond that. But if you do go there you know the place is safe for landings, as in the ground will support a starship and it's not prone to natural disasters every day.

X = Nothing. Landings are not advised. No points have been marked, no study has been done, you land at your own risk and pick your own place. And there's every chance that the place you pick could be the top of volcano about to blow or a sinkhole ready to swallow your ship, or a hundred million other nasty ways to die or worse.

Red Zones are a TAS advisory, usually due to Imperial Interdiction but not always. Local unrest can lead to a Red Zone classification so it's important to keep your Library program and TAS membership up to date.

Amber Zones are softer than Red but similar. The chances of death are not great but you may be inconvienced.

So a Red Zone could see you killed in an all out local war, or sentenced to life on an Imperial Prison Planet if it's an interdicted world. While an Amber Zone would just mean delays in clearing SPA during local unrest or perhaps a fine if violating an interdiction.

That's my take on it. Always has been, likely always will be.

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by the Bromgrev:
I have a real problem with the way X starports have been handled in the OTU. If you go by the LBB3 definition, X just means that there is no place designated for landing. Nothing about interdiction. In practice, however, that's exactly how it has been used. That just does not make sense to me.

While many interdicted worlds may be class X, not all class X worlds are interdicted.

Fine. Say some outside power interdicts a planet. Does that mean it's completely cut off? What are the chances of even a naval blockade stopping all traffic entering or leaving the system? Pretty slim, I would say. Now, cut that down to some automated beacons and a few patrol cruisers, and it becomes more of a gesture than an enforcable border.

Depends on the world and the reason for the interdiction. Likely a world interdicted by the Navy will be more heavily patrolled than one interdicted by the IISS.

So, why should an interdicted world have no starport? Just because the neighbours don't want people coming or going, does that mean the inhabitants are just going to knuckle under? The only thing which would stop them from continuing their own interstellar activities would be continual bombardment of facilities by the blockading power, which would be a bit extreme (but might fit in with the 'dark imperium' idea).

Not all interdicted worlds have no starport. Those that do not may not have one for any number of reasons, the least of which was it was destroyed in a conflict, or they just don't have the tech to build one.

In other words, I advocate decoupling Travel Zones from Starport Types, the way it was in the beginning.

But they aren't coupled.

Hunter

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by the Bromgrev:
I have a real problem with the way X starports have been handled in the OTU. If you go by the LBB3 definition, X just means that there is no place designated for landing. Nothing about interdiction. In practice, however, that's exactly how it has been used. That just does not make sense to me.

While many interdicted worlds may be class X, not all class X worlds are interdicted.

Fine. Say some outside power interdicts a planet. Does that mean it's completely cut off? What are the chances of even a naval blockade stopping all traffic entering or leaving the system? Pretty slim, I would say. Now, cut that down to some automated beacons and a few patrol cruisers, and it becomes more of a gesture than an enforcable border.

Depends on the world and the reason for the interdiction. Likely a world interdicted by the Navy will be more heavily patrolled than one interdicted by the IISS.

So, why should an interdicted world have no starport? Just because the neighbours don't want people coming or going, does that mean the inhabitants are just going to knuckle under? The only thing which would stop them from continuing their own interstellar activities would be continual bombardment of facilities by the blockading power, which would be a bit extreme (but might fit in with the 'dark imperium' idea).

Not all interdicted worlds have no starport. Those that do not may not have one for any number of reasons, the least of which was it was destroyed in a conflict, or they just don't have the tech to build one.

In other words, I advocate decoupling Travel Zones from Starport Types, the way it was in the beginning.

But they aren't coupled.

Hunter

 

[Starviking]

Perhaps even if an interdicted system has an operational starport, authorities will have it marked 'X' on the charts - as it is not legally accessible.

Starviking

 

[Starviking]

Perhaps even if an interdicted system has an operational starport, authorities will have it marked 'X' on the charts - as it is not legally accessible.

Starviking

 

[Border Reiver]

My best analogy would be from flying. As a helicopter pilot (amateur) I have a wide choice of landing sites. My CAA maps and guidebooks indicate a number of helipads that are no more than area of clear ground or specified hard standing with maps of navigation hazards, indication of VOR and ADH beacons in the area. These are unmanned, no facilities, no fuel but are safe landing sites, examples are the local hospital helipad or Floors Castle which are listed as helipads. This is as opposed to trying to land a helicopter on a school playground or shopping centre car park. There is a nice clear area but I don't know what hazards are there, will my blades clear the street lights or are there any overhead wires?

So class X should mean that there may be a place to land but it's at your own risk not that it is impossible to land.

 

[Border Reiver]

My best analogy would be from flying. As a helicopter pilot (amateur) I have a wide choice of landing sites. My CAA maps and guidebooks indicate a number of helipads that are no more than area of clear ground or specified hard standing with maps of navigation hazards, indication of VOR and ADH beacons in the area. These are unmanned, no facilities, no fuel but are safe landing sites, examples are the local hospital helipad or Floors Castle which are listed as helipads. This is as opposed to trying to land a helicopter on a school playground or shopping centre car park. There is a nice clear area but I don't know what hazards are there, will my blades clear the street lights or are there any overhead wires?

So class X should mean that there may be a place to land but it's at your own risk not that it is impossible to land.

 

[Pickles]

Ok, I've had to dig out my Spinward Marches map from the old CT Deluxe Boxed Set. And you're right, there are some red zone worlds with starports:

E - Djinni/2112/Lanth
C - Andor/0236/Five Sisters
C - Candory/0336/Five Sisters

However, all X starports, without exception, are also red zones. I wonder what the thinking behind this is?

Oh, and I have come across a canon instance for X starport = red zone, in the CT Hiver Aliens Module. I suspect there has been some behind-the-scenes movement to equate the two, even though they were unrelated in the original rules.

 

[Pickles]

Ok, I've had to dig out my Spinward Marches map from the old CT Deluxe Boxed Set. And you're right, there are some red zone worlds with starports:

E - Djinni/2112/Lanth
C - Andor/0236/Five Sisters
C - Candory/0336/Five Sisters

However, all X starports, without exception, are also red zones. I wonder what the thinking behind this is?

Oh, and I have come across a canon instance for X starport = red zone, in the CT Hiver Aliens Module. I suspect there has been some behind-the-scenes movement to equate the two, even though they were unrelated in the original rules.

 

[Border Reiver]

Mmmh.

AM2 K'kree is the same, Type X = Interdicted (but not red zone).
AM4 Zhodani has Class X = Forbidden World

AM3 Vargr ignores it

AM1 Aslan is very revealing. Interdicted worlds have class X ports which may have some facilities

This could be a real can of worms.

 

[Border Reiver]

Mmmh.

AM2 K'kree is the same, Type X = Interdicted (but not red zone).
AM4 Zhodani has Class X = Forbidden World

AM3 Vargr ignores it

AM1 Aslan is very revealing. Interdicted worlds have class X ports which may have some facilities

This could be a real can of worms.

 

[Pickles]

<wriggle>

 

[Pickles]

<wriggle>

 

[Psion]

My assumptions when making my own maps was that X-starport worlds in the Imperium get interdicted by Imperial authority, but outside the Imperium it's just an undeveloped world, no red zone unless a special "no contact" order exists.

 

[Psion]

My assumptions when making my own maps was that X-starport worlds in the Imperium get interdicted by Imperial authority, but outside the Imperium it's just an undeveloped world, no red zone unless a special "no contact" order exists.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by the Bromgrev:
However, all X starports, without exception, are also red zones. I wonder what the thinking behind this is?

To convert a Type X starport to a Type E starport requires a gallon of paint and a brush to paint a line marking a landing spot onto a natural flat spot. Perhaps it is only in a red zone that landings are "officially" impossible.

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by atpollard:
To convert a Type X starport to a Type E starport requires a gallon of paint and a brush to paint a line marking a landing spot onto a natural flat spot. Perhaps it is only in a red zone that landings are "officially" impossible.

Although LBB3 says "a marked spot of bedrock", I would think something more than a spot of paint is required to make it noticeable (and thus useable) from orbit. IIRC several published E starports at least had automated beacons, which I would see as aminimum requirement.