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Updating the maps, or stars do move.

I'm not getting what you're trying to say. Stars entering jump space?

Stars entering or leaving the range that can be reached by using jump space. The obvious one is new stars coming into a J-6 range (say on one of the rifts), or moving out of that.

For another :CoW:, one description of JumpSpace is as a wavy sheet (1 pc thick) which is why you can use a flat map to show it. This would imply you might be able to suddenly use a short (J-1 or j-2) jump to reach a new star you couldn't before from anywhere. Or vice versa, suddenly a local trade hub move far enough off it's no longer connected to the jump space universe, and you can no longer reach it from anywhere.

A similar thing occurs in David Brin's Uplift universe, where at the start of the series there are five galaxies, connected by a hyperspace conduit system. At the end of the series, there are only four galaxies. One of the five having been cut off because the physics of the hyperspace conduit had changed over time.
 
For another :CoW:, one description of JumpSpace is as a wavy sheet (1 pc thick) which is why you can use a flat map to show it.
But since you can travel the exact same routes in realspace using maneuver drives, that doesn't actually work to explain why you can use flat maps to show it.

Traveller space is one parsec thick, that's all there is to it. Best not to think about it.


Hans
 
*nods in agreement*

I understand now. You were talking range, and I had this crazy thought that you were talking transitioning into and out of jumpspace.
 
*nods in agreement*

I understand now. You were talking range, and I had this crazy thought that you were talking transitioning into and out of jumpspace.

Well, that's also possible, but that is TL-33 technology.
 
Wellll....

Well, that's also possible, but that is TL-33 technology.
I'd place it at TL-X (31), at TL-Z (33) you are creating stars and pocket universes (and possibly Jumpspace).

Also, I think it would be neat if an occasional star moving on the Map would be cool, it makes the Third Imperium more a dynamic and living universe.
 
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Is that even doable for a Traveller session? I know in theory the rules are there, but has anyone really done a session beyond TL15, and into the magic-tech realm?
 
Is that even doable for a Traveller session? I know in theory the rules are there, but has anyone really done a session beyond TL15, and into the magic-tech realm?

Secret of the Ancients adventure (as well as the update) does. But that's more of a one-off thing. It's probably best done in GURPS, simply because the support for the high-level TL gadgets are all there.
 
Traveller space is one parsec thick, that's all there is to it. Best not to think about it.

Not even some extra-galactic star kicked out of one of the local clusters, traveling through the darkness between galaxy's for millions of years and now crossing into Imperial space. What dark secret might that be carrying?
 
Jim; I must admit, it's been twenty years since I took astronomy with a lab. Can you translate that to mph for us lay astronomers (I tried searching for something online to do this, but no go).

arc-seconds would be traveling across our view of that star.

That page has the animation I've always seen, a dot moving past other stars over a period of decades.

It isn't moving so fast you can see it move, it just means star charts for 1950, showing its position, are very much out of date.

However.

I have seen several recent documentaries on the core of our galaxy. The stars orbiting the massive black hole there are moving so fast around it, you can almost watch them move in the infra-red photos. Lots of dust in that region, so visual telescopes don't see much.

Barnard's Star will eventually come within a fairly short stellar distance of our solar system, then move away from us.

in other words, I have no idea how many miles per hour it is moving. But I hope what I posted this time was useful.
 
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Secret of the Ancients adventure (as well as the update) does. But that's more of a one-off thing. It's probably best done in GURPS, simply because the support for the high-level TL gadgets are all there.
A friend ran Secret of the Ancients. At the time it was pretty interesting, if at the same time also kind of vanilla flavored. At the time (when I was younger) I did wonder why there weren't more adventures with that kind of flavor, and with flavors of higher tech and so forth. I understand much better now that Traveller is more of a "current problems now projected onto a sci-fi / space backdrop" kind of game. Therefore we see cops and robbers, political disputes, domestic uprisings and so forth, instead of mutant monsters and classic alien invasions (Aslan not withstanding).

So when I think of things like astronomy and astrophysics, and how mankind might tackle those, or tackle problems arising from them, I do think that they would make really rocking adventures and / or stories for this game, and I actually drafted a few concepts this last summer. But it's my belief that Traveller, because of the kind of RPG that it is, doesn't lend itself to that.

But I'll tell you this, I have in the past posted concepts about your standard eight man team tackling something like a kaiju monster rampaging in Efate's startown, or, say, one of the Trek monsters like the Doomsday Machine or Vampire cloud coming to wreak havoc. In that same vein monsters from Star Fleet Battles, like the Starswarm, or Moray Eel of space, would simply be too much for your TL15 team of adventurers ... though most entertaining to watch from a GM's standpoit; GM/Referee -----> :devil:

arc-seconds would be traveling across our view of that star.

That page has the animation I've always seen, a dot moving past other stars over a period of decades.

It isn't moving so fast you can see it move, it just means star charts for 1950, showing its position, are very much out of date.

However.

I have seen several recent documentaries on the core of our galaxy. The stars orbiting the massive black hole there are moving so fast around it, you can almost watch them move in the infra-red photos. Lots of dust in that region, so visual telescopes don't see much.

Barnard's Star will eventually come within a fairly short stellar distance of our solar system, then move away from us.

in other words, I have no idea how many miles per hour it is moving. But I hope what I posted this time was useful.

It was interesting. Like I posted above, Traveller, I've come to realize over the last few years, is more a law enforcement and international politics laboratory, therefore threats like super-fast stars swinging by a star system and causing havoc, probably don't fall into Traveller's overall scope of things.

I think someone writing up an adventure about a rogue world careening through a star-system would be, oh, how does one put it, most interesting. From a campaign POV a star moving across a hex may have political implications; say a system moving from pure independence into Swordy or Zho-space. As a matter of the adventurers tackling the physicality of that, I think falls outside the scope of material provided.

Traveller is geared towards the human (or Alien) fallout of cataclysms, usually manmade, and not so much the addressing of astrophysical aberrations.

Still, these are, to my way of thinking, most interesting notions.
 
I think someone writing up an adventure about a rogue world careening through a star-system would be, oh, how does one put it, most interesting. From a campaign POV a star moving across a hex may have political implications; say a system moving from pure independence into Swordy or Zho-space. As a matter of the adventurers tackling the physicality of that, I think falls outside the scope of material provided.

Traveller is geared towards the human (or Alien) fallout of cataclysms, usually manmade, and not so much the addressing of astrophysical aberrations.

Still, these are, to my way of thinking, most interesting notions.

The astrophysical aberration... it's one of those "great concept for a novel, absolutely lame for an adventure"... The time scale will be months to years, and pretty much, the TL's presented (even those being aimed at in Galaxiad) will limit the responses to "How many people can we evacuate?"

And evacuations have already been a part of Traveller cannon (1126—1140 - Hard Times and the spread of virus)...

Plus, since they can't be "solved," any such events and the resulting evacuations are major setting change.
 
It is something that I didn't realize until the last few years as to why Traveller stuck with law enforcement and geo-political themes templated onto the Imperium and her neighbors. I kind of get the whole Imperium and her neighbors theme now from a psychological POV. The idea being to explore how social upheavals are created and tackled.

Still, since Traveller was originally designed as a "do-all" sci-fi RPG, it would have been nice had it been allowed to expand in those unexplored but well known avenues regarding rogue worlds and so forth.

When I was younger I half expected a TL21 or TL35 kind of expansion, but it never happened, and knowing what Traveller is now, I don't imagine it will. Still, given the anecdotes by other players, there seems to be a potential for it.
 
The astrophysical aberration... it's one of those "great concept for a novel, absolutely lame for an adventure"... The time scale will be months to years, and pretty much, the TL's presented (even those being aimed at in Galaxiad) will limit the responses to "How many people can we evacuate?"
Alan Dean Foster's The End of the Matter chronicles just such an event, but to give the problem any sort of immediacy, he had to make the astronomical phenomenon travel at FTL (because <Science!>). And the solution was to locate a forerunner artifact. The same adventure could be had with some lesser threat (like the threathening devastation of Rhylanor in the MegaTraveller 2 computer adventure).

So I guess that what I'm saying is that I agree with Wil. ;)


Hans
 
It is something that I didn't realize until the last few years as to why Traveller stuck with law enforcement and geo-political themes templated onto the Imperium and her neighbors. I kind of get the whole Imperium and her neighbors theme now from a psychological POV. The idea being to explore how social upheavals are created and tackled.
The idea is to have human-scale adventures.


Hans
 
The astrophysical aberration... it's one of those "great concept for a novel, absolutely lame for an adventure"... The time scale will be months to years, and pretty much, the TL's presented (even those being aimed at in Galaxiad) will limit the responses to "How many people can we evacuate?"

And evacuations have already been a part of Traveller cannon (1126—1140 - Hard Times and the spread of virus)...

Plus, since they can't be "solved," any such events and the resulting evacuations are major setting change.
The thing is the tools were created during Traveller's primordial stage, but the game veered towards social issues stemming from either social psychology or "real life" scenarios. Annic Nova is a play on a coast guard vessel finding an abandoned yacht, Chamax plague is a mix of army ants combined with a stampede, Night of Conquest is essentially "Dogs of War" or even the "Black Hawk Down" scenario (before that event happened). I could go on.

I had fun with all those; as a player or GMing, but there was nothing about space monsters, mutants of somekind, black holes, some super race that wants to screw with you, or even the verboten Time Travel.

I mean I'm okay with all that, but it seemed to me that there was ample opportunity for official Traveller material that didn't dabble with the OTU.

So when we discuss things like stars moving or rogue planets, one wonders if there's some wiggle room somewhere for more traditional and far out sci-fi.

I shrug at it. If I ever GM Traveller again, I'll make something up on the fly, and see how my players deal with it.
 
The thing is the tools were created during Traveller's primordial stage, but the game veered towards social issues stemming from either social psychology or "real life" scenarios. Annic Nova is a play on a coast guard vessel finding an abandoned yacht, Chamax plague is a mix of army ants combined with a stampede, Night of Conquest is essentially "Dogs of War" or even the "Black Hawk Down" scenario (before that event happened). I could go on.

I had fun with all those; as a player or GMing, but there was nothing about space monsters, mutants of somekind, black holes, some super race that wants to screw with you, or even the verboten Time Travel.

I mean I'm okay with all that, but it seemed to me that there was ample opportunity for official Traveller material that didn't dabble with the OTU.

So when we discuss things like stars moving or rogue planets, one wonders if there's some wiggle room somewhere for more traditional and far out sci-fi.

I shrug at it. If I ever GM Traveller again, I'll make something up on the fly, and see how my players deal with it.
Space-dwelling monsters are too much into fantasy for the majority of people playing Traveller. If you want that, there's Star Wars, Star Trek, or Dragonstar...

Hell, they make more sense in Dragonstar than anywhere else.

Traveller has come to mean a specific kind of humanocentric hard Space Opera...
 
Yeah, but that wasn't always the case, and the books even state that. I shrug at it now. Traveller's taken on a certain form, and that's just the way it is.

I do, however, think that Traveller has suffered some for not keeping its possibility threshold a little wider. But, at the same time, it doesn't appear to be harmed too much by it. We'll have to see.
 
Yeah, but that wasn't always the case, and the books even state that. I shrug at it now. Traveller's taken on a certain form, and that's just the way it is.

I do, however, think that Traveller has suffered some for not keeping its possibility threshold a little wider. But, at the same time, it doesn't appear to be harmed too much by it. We'll have to see.

This is not a problem limited to Traveller. I have, over the years, read a number of utterly cool, brilliant settings with no idea of what the players were do to in them. And a few settings defined the term "railroading". Finding the balance is difficult. And one challenge is Traveller's history of overarching events with no player interaction (the Rebellion, Virus, TNE) has made the writers a little shy about introducing such thing.

The other half of that is in order to have a living campaign you really need to have a constant flow of products to continually update the setting. And as much as we (as fans) would like to see that, it really requires a professional effort. Pazio (with their Pathfinder campaigns) seems to be making a good effort at doing so. I have not seen if Wizards has done so. I haven't seen anyone else doing so, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know the whole of the gaming industry anymore.
 
Yeah, I remember that when Traveller was still in the LBB format, TSR had a huge display of D&D modules that would take up an entire wall of a hobby or game store. Traveller had a rack, but the books were rather plain, and I've always been somewhat curious about that. There was no attention by the company to call attention to the product, or so it seemed.

I now understand why there weren't any shrink wrapped modules with excellent art with stories of things like a sun going supernova in a subsector, or a meteor showing bombarding a world, or a rogue planet that screwed with the oceans as it sped by missing a high density population world.

I'm wondering if Traveller was never meant as a hard sci-fi game, and more or less a tool to help train investigators. I often wondered why there were only off handed reaches or remarks to other sci-fi venues, instead of a hard drive to grab and run with the latest fads.

Still, I stuck with it because it had things like conventional modern day firearms and vehicles, and that seemed to "ground" the setting, as opposed to bombarding players with all kinds of ultra tech. Wow. I didn't know. No wonder. Interesting.
 
I often wondered why there were only off handed reaches or remarks to other sci-fi venues, instead of a hard drive to grab and run with the latest fads.

GDW was happy to run with the "latest fads" - Space 1889 was the late 80's initial steampunk rise in the literature (before other companies followed GDW's lead in crossing over to gaming). And 2300 had cybertech, with only one real competitor in the market (Cyberpunk 2013). They jumped on the resurgence of Call of Cthulhu with Dark Conspiracy. They jumped on cold war paranoia of the mid 80's and early 90's with two editions each of Harpoon and T2K. They jumped on the RPG bandwagon in the mid 70's with two that are still played to this day... the 1975 En Garde! and the 1977 Traveller. They jumped on the postholocaust binge of the early 90's with TNE. Classic Traveller also was in the wake of Star Wars A New Hope...

What they weren't willing to do was go all hyper-fantasy. All of their RPG settings were firmly in the "minimal changes, but ignore a few inconvenient details"... their wargames were hard core milsims, save for the Traveller ones and the 1889 ones. Soldier's Companion for 1889 was first and foremost a really awesome set of Victorian Period Military Minis Rules. So was Ironclads & Ether Flyers. Both overlaid a solid science-fantasy element on top... but both of them were solid intro-to-moderate experience level tactical games with plenty of realism for the non-fantasy elements.

I don't think that Frank, Loren, and Marc were capable of going for the grossly unrealistic stuff; none of them have done so since the break-up, either. Their general approach to design is simulationism. As a company, it was always simulationism tempered with ease of play.

So, we get Practical Fusion, Jump Drives, Gravitics, Psionics and Sandcasters as the fantasy elements. Everything else was college-graduate-layman's plausible. (And, based upon certain leaked bits, Practical Fusion may already exist in the lab as of late 2014.)
 
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