Used Ships and other stuff

[hemulen]

Hi,

As part of my thinking about running some Traveller again, my partner (who has been converted to RPGs), rolled up an interesting character the other day:

Scientist, Age 22 Terms 1
STR 8
DEX 9
END 7
INT 9
EDU 4
SOC 3

Cr 0
Lab Ship(!)

Robotics-1
Robot Ops-1
Gun Combat-0
Grav Vehicle-0
Computer-0

I was wondering about the lab ship part. With robotics skills, it's possible that she could run parts of the ship automatically, although this doesn't seem very common in the Imperium, and I suspect that legally they may require human crew on board anyway. Robots have never been very widely covered, and I don't want to make her skills completely useless!

But I am also interested in how to handle the ship itself. To buy a new Lab Ship (72 Mcr) seems infeasible, especially given the low cargo space, and the character seems a bit inexperienced to be loaned one for research purposes. So I was wondering about buying a used ship, financed by a bank. I'm sure I've seen something about this somewhere, but I can't find it now.

My thoughts: depreciate the value of the ship by 5%/year. After 40 years a lab ship would be around 9 MCr. If you ripped out the laboratories to make extra cargo space, you'd get about 100 tons cargo space in total, which should be ok. Plus you get 4 hardpoints! Even if you only used the 100 tons for freight shipping on major routes, with 2 trips a month that's 200 KCr/month before expenses, which is not bad, and you can run on unrefined fuel (but no skimming, as it's unstreamlined, so you still have to buy that).

Of course, with no ship skills, she will be needing a crew.

I'd also like to give the ship some flaws, after all, if it's 40 years old, and there's nothing wrong with it, why buy new, apart from prestige value?

One more question, this one about fuel usage - if a Lab Ship has J2 capability, how much fuel does it used for J1? Is it:

- half that needed for J2 (because it's half the distance of J2)
- all that needed for J2? (because you still need to get all the ship into J-space)
- 8/12th of that needed for J2 (based on J units needed for J1 & J2 from the construction tables).

Any other thoughts gratefully received!

thanks,

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Hi,

As part of my thinking about running some Traveller again, my partner (who has been converted to RPGs), rolled up an interesting character the other day:

Scientist, Age 22 Terms 1
STR 8
DEX 9
END 7
INT 9
EDU 4
SOC 3

Cr 0
Lab Ship(!)

Robotics-1
Robot Ops-1
Gun Combat-0
Grav Vehicle-0
Computer-0

I was wondering about the lab ship part. With robotics skills, it's possible that she could run parts of the ship automatically, although this doesn't seem very common in the Imperium, and I suspect that legally they may require human crew on board anyway. Robots have never been very widely covered, and I don't want to make her skills completely useless!

But I am also interested in how to handle the ship itself. To buy a new Lab Ship (72 Mcr) seems infeasible, especially given the low cargo space, and the character seems a bit inexperienced to be loaned one for research purposes. So I was wondering about buying a used ship, financed by a bank. I'm sure I've seen something about this somewhere, but I can't find it now.

My thoughts: depreciate the value of the ship by 5%/year. After 40 years a lab ship would be around 9 MCr. If you ripped out the laboratories to make extra cargo space, you'd get about 100 tons cargo space in total, which should be ok. Plus you get 4 hardpoints! Even if you only used the 100 tons for freight shipping on major routes, with 2 trips a month that's 200 KCr/month before expenses, which is not bad, and you can run on unrefined fuel (but no skimming, as it's unstreamlined, so you still have to buy that).

Of course, with no ship skills, she will be needing a crew.

I'd also like to give the ship some flaws, after all, if it's 40 years old, and there's nothing wrong with it, why buy new, apart from prestige value?

One more question, this one about fuel usage - if a Lab Ship has J2 capability, how much fuel does it used for J1? Is it:

- half that needed for J2 (because it's half the distance of J2)
- all that needed for J2? (because you still need to get all the ship into J-space)
- 8/12th of that needed for J2 (based on J units needed for J1 & J2 from the construction tables).

Any other thoughts gratefully received!

thanks,

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Hi,

As part of my thinking about running some Traveller again, my partner (who has been converted to RPGs), rolled up an interesting character the other day:

Scientist, Age 22 Terms 1
STR 8
DEX 9
END 7
INT 9
EDU 4
SOC 3

Cr 0
Lab Ship(!)

Robotics-1
Robot Ops-1
Gun Combat-0
Grav Vehicle-0
Computer-0

I was wondering about the lab ship part. With robotics skills, it's possible that she could run parts of the ship automatically, although this doesn't seem very common in the Imperium, and I suspect that legally they may require human crew on board anyway. Robots have never been very widely covered, and I don't want to make her skills completely useless!

But I am also interested in how to handle the ship itself. To buy a new Lab Ship (72 Mcr) seems infeasible, especially given the low cargo space, and the character seems a bit inexperienced to be loaned one for research purposes. So I was wondering about buying a used ship, financed by a bank. I'm sure I've seen something about this somewhere, but I can't find it now.

My thoughts: depreciate the value of the ship by 5%/year. After 40 years a lab ship would be around 9 MCr. If you ripped out the laboratories to make extra cargo space, you'd get about 100 tons cargo space in total, which should be ok. Plus you get 4 hardpoints! Even if you only used the 100 tons for freight shipping on major routes, with 2 trips a month that's 200 KCr/month before expenses, which is not bad, and you can run on unrefined fuel (but no skimming, as it's unstreamlined, so you still have to buy that).

Of course, with no ship skills, she will be needing a crew.

I'd also like to give the ship some flaws, after all, if it's 40 years old, and there's nothing wrong with it, why buy new, apart from prestige value?

One more question, this one about fuel usage - if a Lab Ship has J2 capability, how much fuel does it used for J1? Is it:

- half that needed for J2 (because it's half the distance of J2)
- all that needed for J2? (because you still need to get all the ship into J-space)
- 8/12th of that needed for J2 (based on J units needed for J1 & J2 from the construction tables).

Any other thoughts gratefully received!

thanks,

Mark

 

[Piper]

Jump 1 would use half the fuel of a jump 2.

Buying a 40 year old clunker lab ship seems reasonable and you as the referee can make any adjustments in price you choose. If I remember correctly, the ship's pinnace can be used as a mini tanker, so skimming should be possible.

Here's one way that you could handle the lab ship, if you and your partner like it: when I looked at the character stats, the first things I noticed after the age were the low values for EDU and SOC. This character isn't from a well-connected family and she/he doesn't have a string of prestigious degrees. This person might be something of a maverick; a bright kid with a brilliant idea.

Through sheer brass and determination, the character has convinced someone to give the idea a test. The patron could be a robotics company, the Scout service or navy or a venture capitalist. The patron provides the ship and your character needs to cover expenses as much as possible. The patron might also provide crew, but they will be employed by the patron and will act as minders to safeguard his investment.

The idea itself would (obviously) involve robots. This could be creating a fully automated or robot-crewed freighter, X-boat or scout ship. The lab ship is the test vehicle for the concept and proving the idea would involve running a trade route or scanning a series of systems. This should give your partner enough flexibility to travel almost anywhere.

And running a ship full of prototype robots can give you as the referee all kinds of opportunities for mischief.

 

[Piper]

Jump 1 would use half the fuel of a jump 2.

Buying a 40 year old clunker lab ship seems reasonable and you as the referee can make any adjustments in price you choose. If I remember correctly, the ship's pinnace can be used as a mini tanker, so skimming should be possible.

Here's one way that you could handle the lab ship, if you and your partner like it: when I looked at the character stats, the first things I noticed after the age were the low values for EDU and SOC. This character isn't from a well-connected family and she/he doesn't have a string of prestigious degrees. This person might be something of a maverick; a bright kid with a brilliant idea.

Through sheer brass and determination, the character has convinced someone to give the idea a test. The patron could be a robotics company, the Scout service or navy or a venture capitalist. The patron provides the ship and your character needs to cover expenses as much as possible. The patron might also provide crew, but they will be employed by the patron and will act as minders to safeguard his investment.

The idea itself would (obviously) involve robots. This could be creating a fully automated or robot-crewed freighter, X-boat or scout ship. The lab ship is the test vehicle for the concept and proving the idea would involve running a trade route or scanning a series of systems. This should give your partner enough flexibility to travel almost anywhere.

And running a ship full of prototype robots can give you as the referee all kinds of opportunities for mischief.

 

[Piper]

Jump 1 would use half the fuel of a jump 2.

Buying a 40 year old clunker lab ship seems reasonable and you as the referee can make any adjustments in price you choose. If I remember correctly, the ship's pinnace can be used as a mini tanker, so skimming should be possible.

Here's one way that you could handle the lab ship, if you and your partner like it: when I looked at the character stats, the first things I noticed after the age were the low values for EDU and SOC. This character isn't from a well-connected family and she/he doesn't have a string of prestigious degrees. This person might be something of a maverick; a bright kid with a brilliant idea.

Through sheer brass and determination, the character has convinced someone to give the idea a test. The patron could be a robotics company, the Scout service or navy or a venture capitalist. The patron provides the ship and your character needs to cover expenses as much as possible. The patron might also provide crew, but they will be employed by the patron and will act as minders to safeguard his investment.

The idea itself would (obviously) involve robots. This could be creating a fully automated or robot-crewed freighter, X-boat or scout ship. The lab ship is the test vehicle for the concept and proving the idea would involve running a trade route or scanning a series of systems. This should give your partner enough flexibility to travel almost anywhere.

And running a ship full of prototype robots can give you as the referee all kinds of opportunities for mischief.

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Piper:
Jump 1 would use half the fuel of a jump 2.

Ok. That's what seemed reasonable, but I couldn't remember any particular statement about it in MT rules as to how much fuel was used on less than maximum jumps.

Buying a 40 year old clunker lab ship seems reasonable and you as the referee can make any adjustments in price you choose. If I remember correctly, the ship's pinnace can be used as a mini tanker, so skimming should be possible.

Yup, that's true, although I think it would take a few runs to get enough fuel together using the pinnace. Maybe remove some of the seats and get a bladder tank fitted? Otherwise you'd be spending days just skimming fuel. Similarly for unloading cargo to surface - if you had to use the pinnace it would take a long time, so you are going to end up paying for orbit to surface shipping, or using highports where possible.

Through sheer brass and determination, the character has convinced someone to give the idea a test. The patron could be a robotics company, the Scout service or navy or a venture capitalist. The patron provides the ship and your character needs to cover expenses as much as possible. The patron might also provide crew, but they will be employed by the patron and will act as minders to safeguard his investment.

The idea itself would (obviously) involve robots. This could be creating a fully automated or robot-crewed freighter, X-boat or scout ship. The lab ship is the test vehicle for the concept and proving the idea would involve running a trade route or scanning a series of systems. This should give your partner enough flexibility to travel almost anywhere.

And running a ship full of prototype robots can give you as the referee all kinds of opportunities for mischief.

Exactly! I did wonder about doing it that way, it still leaves room for other PCs to be around, in case anything goes wrong, and I don't think that the Imperium would allow robot-only vehicles anyway. They migh allow operation with reduced crew though, or be used in hazardous survey/scout missions.

I'll talk to her about it and see what ideas grab her about what she wants to do - if she wanted to do the research vessel approach that's good. I have a feeling that she might go for the "rusty trader with dodgy crew" approach though...

I may say that although by stripping out the labs you can gain extra cargo space, you aren't going to get a 100% reusage of the space, it may be 50% or 66% of it.

Was there ever much in the way of resources for MT robots? I don't have the CT Robots book, although I do have the early JTAS' with the robot articles.

cheers,

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Piper:
Jump 1 would use half the fuel of a jump 2.

Ok. That's what seemed reasonable, but I couldn't remember any particular statement about it in MT rules as to how much fuel was used on less than maximum jumps.

Buying a 40 year old clunker lab ship seems reasonable and you as the referee can make any adjustments in price you choose. If I remember correctly, the ship's pinnace can be used as a mini tanker, so skimming should be possible.

Yup, that's true, although I think it would take a few runs to get enough fuel together using the pinnace. Maybe remove some of the seats and get a bladder tank fitted? Otherwise you'd be spending days just skimming fuel. Similarly for unloading cargo to surface - if you had to use the pinnace it would take a long time, so you are going to end up paying for orbit to surface shipping, or using highports where possible.

Through sheer brass and determination, the character has convinced someone to give the idea a test. The patron could be a robotics company, the Scout service or navy or a venture capitalist. The patron provides the ship and your character needs to cover expenses as much as possible. The patron might also provide crew, but they will be employed by the patron and will act as minders to safeguard his investment.

The idea itself would (obviously) involve robots. This could be creating a fully automated or robot-crewed freighter, X-boat or scout ship. The lab ship is the test vehicle for the concept and proving the idea would involve running a trade route or scanning a series of systems. This should give your partner enough flexibility to travel almost anywhere.

And running a ship full of prototype robots can give you as the referee all kinds of opportunities for mischief.

Exactly! I did wonder about doing it that way, it still leaves room for other PCs to be around, in case anything goes wrong, and I don't think that the Imperium would allow robot-only vehicles anyway. They migh allow operation with reduced crew though, or be used in hazardous survey/scout missions.

I'll talk to her about it and see what ideas grab her about what she wants to do - if she wanted to do the research vessel approach that's good. I have a feeling that she might go for the "rusty trader with dodgy crew" approach though...

I may say that although by stripping out the labs you can gain extra cargo space, you aren't going to get a 100% reusage of the space, it may be 50% or 66% of it.

Was there ever much in the way of resources for MT robots? I don't have the CT Robots book, although I do have the early JTAS' with the robot articles.

cheers,

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Piper:
Jump 1 would use half the fuel of a jump 2.

Ok. That's what seemed reasonable, but I couldn't remember any particular statement about it in MT rules as to how much fuel was used on less than maximum jumps.

Buying a 40 year old clunker lab ship seems reasonable and you as the referee can make any adjustments in price you choose. If I remember correctly, the ship's pinnace can be used as a mini tanker, so skimming should be possible.

Yup, that's true, although I think it would take a few runs to get enough fuel together using the pinnace. Maybe remove some of the seats and get a bladder tank fitted? Otherwise you'd be spending days just skimming fuel. Similarly for unloading cargo to surface - if you had to use the pinnace it would take a long time, so you are going to end up paying for orbit to surface shipping, or using highports where possible.

Through sheer brass and determination, the character has convinced someone to give the idea a test. The patron could be a robotics company, the Scout service or navy or a venture capitalist. The patron provides the ship and your character needs to cover expenses as much as possible. The patron might also provide crew, but they will be employed by the patron and will act as minders to safeguard his investment.

The idea itself would (obviously) involve robots. This could be creating a fully automated or robot-crewed freighter, X-boat or scout ship. The lab ship is the test vehicle for the concept and proving the idea would involve running a trade route or scanning a series of systems. This should give your partner enough flexibility to travel almost anywhere.

And running a ship full of prototype robots can give you as the referee all kinds of opportunities for mischief.

Exactly! I did wonder about doing it that way, it still leaves room for other PCs to be around, in case anything goes wrong, and I don't think that the Imperium would allow robot-only vehicles anyway. They migh allow operation with reduced crew though, or be used in hazardous survey/scout missions.

I'll talk to her about it and see what ideas grab her about what she wants to do - if she wanted to do the research vessel approach that's good. I have a feeling that she might go for the "rusty trader with dodgy crew" approach though...

I may say that although by stripping out the labs you can gain extra cargo space, you aren't going to get a 100% reusage of the space, it may be 50% or 66% of it.

Was there ever much in the way of resources for MT robots? I don't have the CT Robots book, although I do have the early JTAS' with the robot articles.

cheers,

Mark

 

[Klaus]

There's the Avenger Robot books, over on Comstar. I think they're statted for CT as well as T20.

 

[Klaus]

There's the Avenger Robot books, over on Comstar. I think they're statted for CT as well as T20.

 

[Klaus]

There's the Avenger Robot books, over on Comstar. I think they're statted for CT as well as T20.

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Klaus:
There's the Avenger Robot books, over on Comstar. I think they're statted for CT as well as T20.

Haven't seen those - I'll nip off and have a look, thanks!

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Klaus:
There's the Avenger Robot books, over on Comstar. I think they're statted for CT as well as T20.

Haven't seen those - I'll nip off and have a look, thanks!

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Klaus:
There's the Avenger Robot books, over on Comstar. I think they're statted for CT as well as T20.

Haven't seen those - I'll nip off and have a look, thanks!

Mark

 

[aramis]

One side thought:

Ships are considered to have a service life of 60-70 years, not 40, so 5% per year is a HUGE drop. 1.5-2% is more likely

 

[aramis]

One side thought:

Ships are considered to have a service life of 60-70 years, not 40, so 5% per year is a HUGE drop. 1.5-2% is more likely

 

[aramis]

One side thought:

Ships are considered to have a service life of 60-70 years, not 40, so 5% per year is a HUGE drop. 1.5-2% is more likely

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Aramis:
One side thought:

Ships are considered to have a service life of 60-70 years, not 40, so 5% per year is a HUGE drop. 1.5-2% is more likely

Ok. I don't recall seeing service lifetimes quoted anywhere, but 60-70 years sounds like a good number. So, if we say depreciation of 2%/year, we get the following:

60 years: 0.297 * original price
70 years: 0.243 * original price

For the Lab ship at MCr 72, that works out to 21.38 and 17.50. I guess it wouldn't be a straighforward 2% decrease per year though, it would probably devalue more rapidly when new and when old, but it may be a good approximation.

On a 70 year old ship I suspect that it would be worth considerably less than nearly 25% of it's original price, since it's very close to end of service. Companies must write off old ships - presumably there are scrapyards around full of old ships that it's not worth anyone's time to dismantle?

There must be some sort of curve for this price drop, probably for buying used cars...

Mark

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Aramis:
One side thought:

Ships are considered to have a service life of 60-70 years, not 40, so 5% per year is a HUGE drop. 1.5-2% is more likely

Ok. I don't recall seeing service lifetimes quoted anywhere, but 60-70 years sounds like a good number. So, if we say depreciation of 2%/year, we get the following:

60 years: 0.297 * original price
70 years: 0.243 * original price

For the Lab ship at MCr 72, that works out to 21.38 and 17.50. I guess it wouldn't be a straighforward 2% decrease per year though, it would probably devalue more rapidly when new and when old, but it may be a good approximation.

On a 70 year old ship I suspect that it would be worth considerably less than nearly 25% of it's original price, since it's very close to end of service. Companies must write off old ships - presumably there are scrapyards around full of old ships that it's not worth anyone's time to dismantle?

There must be some sort of curve for this price drop, probably for buying used cars...

Mark