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Using Wafertech to Emulate FTL Communication

I guess my question is whether or not this is going to ported back to Classic or only be part of the T5 canon. Since this technology apparently was supposed to exist prior to circa 1100 Imperium dating, is it now part of the Classic canon, and must be included in anyone writing about the Classic game?
 
Returning to Garfellows op:

Consider this: It's the final stage of the Solomani Rim War. Admiral Arielle Adair is directing a massive Imperial battle fleet advancing toward Terra. As needed, she creates mission-specific task forces that break off from the main force.

Each of these task forces carry wafers with the latest personality scans of the Admiral and her staff. Should the task force run into trouble, the commander is able to activate the wafers and discuss the situation at length with Admiral Adair.

While this has many shortcomings over true FTL communication, it also has many advantages over just giving the commander extremely broad orders and hoping that he or she will make the right decisions. The commander doesn't need to guess what Adair wants the task force to do -- she just tells them.

If i make ten copies of my personality and place them in the same situation I wonder would they all take the same course of action? Would nine go left and one go right? The copies of me are going to be just a fallible as me.

In the admiral's case they're at a further disadvantage because they no longer have the strategic overview that the real Admiral has. Actually thats what an Admiral is for, to command, in this case to command a fleet and not to manage in detail the task forces under her command.

I understand that wafertech seems to make that kind of command in detail possible, but I think rather than allowing the Admiral to be everywhere at once (and split her attention without the usual problems that causes) what you actually end up with is just an intermediate level of task force commander.

Originally the orders issued to captains and admirals of the Royal Navy were called "Advices" because rather than giving hard orders they advised the commander on the spot what the desired outcome was allowing him the freedom to act as the local conditions required.

Grant the Task Force commanders freedom to execute their mission, don't saddle them with a copy of their Admiral, that doesn't have an up to date strategic view that would allow her to meaningfully influence the execution of the mission. Sometimes you have to set an operation in progress and trust your subordinate commanders.

So my opinion in summary; wafers, rather than granting pseudo FTL communication to the Admiral, creates lots of "vice" Admirals in charge of Task forces that don't add a whole lot to achieving the mission.
 
I guess my question is whether or not this is going to ported back to Classic or only be part of the T5 canon. Since this technology apparently was supposed to exist prior to circa 1100 Imperium dating, is it now part of the Classic canon, and must be included in anyone writing about the Classic game?
The T5 adventure Cirque which is set in the CT era (post FFW pre Rebellion) has a nod towards wafer technology.

Remember the original setting of the Spinward Marches is a far away frontier, with only a few worlds at maximum 3I TL, IN bases and the like. Wafer technology may well not be at all widespread within the Spinward Marches.
 
I guess my question is whether or not this is going to ported back to Classic or only be part of the T5 canon. Since this technology apparently was supposed to exist prior to circa 1100 Imperium dating, is it now part of the Classic canon, and must be included in anyone writing about the Classic game?

I think the answer is yes, but I also don't think it breaks prior canon. (Bends, maybe.) What makes the Third Imperium so unusual as a setting is we have all sorts of minute details such as where each and every AHL was built but we lack really basic information as to what everyday life in the Imperium is like.

I think all these new T5 technologies have, like robots and the Amindii, always been there. Just in the background and largely irrelevent for most people most of the time. I'm sure nobles care a great great deal about clone succession and so on, but for most people this is a problem that has very little effect on them personally.

To paraphrase another poster in another thread, just because we've never had a Library Data entry for "Commodes, Imperial" doens't mean that Citizens of the Imperium don't ever need to use one.
 
If i make ten copies of my personality and place them in the same situation I wonder would they all take the same course of action? Would nine go left and one go right? The copies of me are going to be just a fallible as me.

I do suspect they would be surprisingly consistent when faced with the same situation, but not uniform. Probably the more chaotic the situation, the less consistent.

So my opinion in summary; wafers, rather than granting pseudo FTL communication to the Admiral, creates lots of "vice" Admirals in charge of Task forces that don't add a whole lot to achieving the mission.

I agree completely with your assessment of the practical limitations of this -- but hierarchical institutions are pretty heavily invested in at least the mythology of a meritocracy. This person rose to become a captain because she was the smartest/hardest worker/most talented officer. This person made admiral because she was the smartest/hardest worker/most talented captain. So on, so forth. And many people who make it to the top fully buy into that idea.

So I could see a lot of institutions thinking that having copies of the CEO/prime minister/admiral would encourage the "best" decision.
 
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Anagathics continues your existence.
Relicts/clones are not a continuation of your existence, the clone/relict just thinks it is you.
There would need to be pretty comprehensive laws governing the legal status of a relict/clone, inheritance rights etc.

We also turn this on it's ear and suggest a cultural value of the Relict/clone being viewed as a welcome relief from the onerous burdens of official service. What if when the individual dies, the new person takes the title and the relict/clone gets to retire? They get to enjoy their life, work as a trusted advisor every once in a while, but they "get their life back"?

Sure there are the folks who are going to want to hold on to power for as many incarnations as possible, and the Emperor can always re-appoint a Relict to the same or another position, but it is certainly possible that the Imperium has simply treated this as far more of a non-issue than we're assuming here in the discussion.

"Who's that? She looks familiar."

"That's Lady Roberta, former Duke of WhaWhosit, she's become quite the golfer after her passing hasn't she?"

They could (would?) certainly be considered members of house, probably retain some minor title or honorific as a result, and certainly retain a certain amount of social clout simply because of their family - plus whatever knowledge they retain.

Heck, that's a supercool character when you think about it!

Perhaps they are running around trying to right the wrongs they saw before but couldn't because they were constrained by their title and duties. Perhaps they are a troubleshooter for their house (or company, since much the same could apply to megacorps). Heck maybe they just turn into a classic remittance man? Put on a stipend by the family and sent far away to keep them out of "trouble"...

Maybe the custom is to put the relict/clone on a big tour of space with "pension" so that they don't accidently interfere with the new title-holder as well as a "Well done, now go enjoy yourself and trust your heir to do their job. When you get back the two of you can talk shop, but right now you need a break and he needs to get his feet wet."

Really just as fascinating if we treat this a socially positive situation used as a reward or a resource rather than a socially negative one that's a source of conflict.

D.
 
How about the Relict Clone from a pattern mother who didn't tell anyone she had Life Insurance?

Relict: "Um hi, guys. I'm kinda back?"

Family: "Oh no you're not!"

But I can see where there would be an immediate mixed reactions result ending with putting the Relict on the next interstellar flight and told to become a Traveller and maybe a representative/diplomat/emissary of the Family.

Socially positive side, the Relict gets to be everyone's favorite, talented, skilled and valuable aunt. On the negative, it could put wedges into the Family.

Family: "Why didn't you tell us about this?"

Relict: "I/She forgot? There was a Fifth Frontier War going on."

Family: "The heir is gonna go through the roof if he sees her."
 
I do suspect they would be surprisingly consistent when faced with the same situation, but not uniform. Probably the more chaotic the situation, the less consistent.

:D I'm not sure about ten "mes".

Situation will be one variable. the actual personality type of the person being copied (or do we say wafered?) is going to be another factor. Copy a flighty unfocused person will probably lead to a greater range of reactions.

I agree completely with your assessment of the practical limitations of this -- but hierarchical institutions are pretty heavily invested in at least the mythology of a meritocracy. This person rose to become a captain because she was the smartest/hardest worker/most talented officer. This person made admiral because she was the smartest/hardest worker/most talented captain. So on, so forth. And many people who make it to the top fully buy into that idea.

So I could see a lot of institutions thinking that having copies of the CEO/prime minister/admiral would encourage the "best" decision.

Ok I agree with you but in a military setting reducing the hierarchy and pushing responsibility down the chain of command in distributed operations, like space warfare, is desirable.

Its probably going to have a lot to do with the corporate culture of an organisation, do you trust your officers/executives or do you want your wafered leaders to be on-the-spot micro-managing.

Incidentally in the military case, if you know you're facing units controlled by wafered copies of famous General X and your intelligence people have a comprehensive psychological profile built up from every decision he's ever taken, do you have an advantage by being able to predict what each unit will do?

And another thought: where does a personality of an officer on a wafer fit in the chain of command?
 
There's no reason that a personality matrix on a wafer has to be nondeterministic--that is, "random." Sure, the default has free will and all, just like the real person, but you can program that out so that ten copies of a personality will all make exactly the same choices given the same inputs.

Of course, "given the same inputs" is a slippery slope. Butterfly effect and all that.

But assuming that you can program determinism into personality wafers, and assuming that you can decant a General's personality, give it input in a controlled way, and then get a decision...

Why not have this on all ships, including the ship of the actual General? The actual General decants her copy and asks her the same question, too, so she knows what advice "she" will give to her captains all over the place. She knows that, if she ignores this advice, her captains will be confused. Then you set up protocols for when to absolutely use this procedure to make decisions.
 
And another thought: where does a personality of an officer on a wafer fit in the chain of command?
In Agent of the Imperium, the agent personalities all have Imperial Warrants -- so they trump everyone in the chain of command. I don't think we see what happens to the general and admiral personalities, but I would guess the personality activates with its own rank?

Which makes me wonder. A naval officer given command probably also has some kind of Quarantine training to identify situations where you need to activate the Q agent wafer. And mostly, these are going to be WtF situations -- if you don't understand what's going on, you spin up the agent just to be safe.

But for a general, when do you activate a general wafer? It is basically advising you on something you are already supposed to be able to handle. Wouldn't it be seen as throwing in the towel to call up a wafer daddy to tell you what to do?
 
There's no reason that a personality matrix on a wafer has to be nondeterministic--that is, "random." Sure, the default has free will and all, just like the real person, but you can program that out so that ten copies of a personality will all make exactly the same choices given the same inputs.

Of course, "given the same inputs" is a slippery slope. Butterfly effect and all that.

Wait. Why would you want a personality advising you without free will or randomness? Surely you could just run simulations on a computer to achieve the same result. the whole idea of having a personality wafer of your superior there is that it can react in the same way as the original and advise if not order you to take a particular course of action.

In other words, if you program out all the humanity, why not go all the way and remove the crew and turn the warship into a drone, or give whatever task is required to a robot of the appropriate type?



In Agent of the Imperium, the agent personalities all have Imperial Warrants -- so they trump everyone in the chain of command. I don't think we see what happens to the general and admiral personalities, but I would guess the personality activates with its own rank?

Which makes me wonder. A naval officer given command probably also has some kind of Quarantine training to identify situations where you need to activate the Q agent wafer. And mostly, these are going to be WtF situations -- if you don't understand what's going on, you spin up the agent just to be safe.

But for a general, when do you activate a general wafer? It is basically advising you on something you are already supposed to be able to handle. Wouldn't it be seen as throwing in the towel to call up a wafer daddy to tell you what to do?

Okay I particularly ignored AoI because the Agent is empowered by Imperial Warrant.

Actually I assumed all those special wafers, Warlord, General etc. would be backed by Imperial warrent because they are what you turn to when the situation transcends the normal chain of command.

When I was reading AoI I started to wonder if the depiction of Imperial services were of a slightly dumbed down or neutered population. Those ships crews got themselves in a situation over and over where they got stuck. they got stuck, they checked the computer and it said activate the Agent....

Now I wonder if they were the equivalent of NPC crews and would real Travellers have had the where-with-all to take the steps the Agent did?

But back to the question. Lets say the AoI wafers are backed by their Imperial Warrants or equivalent. Your Admiral Adair only has her commission and orders appointing her to command the fleet. If she starts commanding by wafering herself to every ship in the fleet, or at least every task force flag ship, what happens when one of those copies gives an order that leads to a loss? Does the Admiral or the wafer go before a court of inquiry? What happens if the task force commander refuses to follow the orders of the copy?

The simplest way I can reason this out is the copy isn't in the chain of command, its presence is only advisory, like having very detailed orders that cover lots of contingencies. Now any officer that ignores orders (or a copy of his or her boss) will be in trouble unless they have good grounds for doing so.

[Edit]This is how I can best fit wafer tech in without changing what I'd call the human responsibility culture. If you can micro manage across interstellar distances using wafer copies, then that takes away a lot of the responsibility that Traveller assumes is placed on the Johnny on the spot.

Think of it this way as it applies to the game: With wafers the Patron can always be with and in control of the group of PCs. Now play that game....
 
The simplest way I can reason this out is the copy isn't in the chain of command, its presence is only advisory, like having very detailed orders that cover lots of contingencies. Now any officer that ignores orders (or a copy of his or her boss) will be in trouble unless they have good grounds for doing so.

I think this probably is how the wafertech would work -- as advisory only, though I could see the Imperium working through several iterations to get to this point. The whole feudal system is predicated on the fact that because of the lag in interstellar communication you have to empower the nobility to make decisions on behalf of the Emperor. (I love, by the way, your note that orders were previously called "advices," something I will totally use for MTU.)

Putting wafer personalities in the military chain of command, except in Imperium-level threats, just seems to be asking for trouble.
 
I think the answer is yes, but I also don't think it breaks prior canon. (Bends, maybe.) What makes the Third Imperium so unusual as a setting is we have all sorts of minute details such as where each and every AHL was built but we lack really basic information as to what everyday life in the Imperium is like.

I think all these new T5 technologies have, like robots and the Amindii, always been there. Just in the background and largely irrelevent for most people most of the time. I'm sure nobles care a great great deal about clone succession and so on, but for most people this is a problem that has very little effect on them personally.

To paraphrase another poster in another thread, just because we've never had a Library Data entry for "Commodes, Imperial" doens't mean that Citizens of the Imperium don't ever need to use one.

And what happens when a character with a societal level of 12 or higher fails an aging role and decides that he now has a clone and is back to having a 21 year old body, but all of his acquired skills are still there and available for use?
 
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Wafertech has widespread implications yes indeed. AotI shows a demonstrable need by Imperium itself, but do individuals have a need? But are relicts really a big deal in widespread use in the 3I? I go back to the idea about the Imperium not ruling the actual planets.
You are a product of your homeworld. Individual planets and cultures may have factors that prevent widespread adoption. Such as:
  • local TL - All you fancy smancy offworlders may be reckless with your lives, but here on the TL8 farm planet we know you only get one chance at a happy life.
  • Red Zone planets - No one gets in or out. If your planet is Red Zoned and you have relicts they are not going offworld to spread such ideas. If you are Red Zoned and don't have them how is anyone going to let you know?
  • Your homeworld's culture. This is the big X in the equation. The aforementioned worlds can be reasonably, statistically eliminated. So how many of the remaining worlds may or may allow Relicts?
We don't serve your kind around here. - Bartenders at many desert planet bars
 
And what happens when a character with a societal level of 12 or higher fails an aging role and decides that he now has a clone and is back to having a 21 year old body, but all of his acquired skills are still there and available for use?
Put yourself in that character's shoes. You are still trapped in your meat shell and you are still going to die. There is an imposter that looks just like you, would have all your memories, but is not you. Would you really be comforted by the fact that that this homunculus will take up all your hard-earned experience while you dwindle, or would you maybe resent that lab grown thing, if only a little?

Relicts are not going to be affordable to most of the population of the Imperium and profoundly unattractive to most of those few who could.

They are most valuable to other people: the government, employers, grieving widows, widowers, or parents,
 
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If you can "bring the admiral with you", why would you simply not have it activated all the time, assuming the admiral is truly a better tactician than the commander.

The point of the upper staff is to keep their eye on the meta information of the battle and the campaign. The individual commanders handle their ever finer details. I guess it reduces the problems with vague orders for special situations.

But, going farther, why not replicate your best tacticians in consulting or leadership roles across the fleet, where they simply need to know the current situation and can act on current data, rather than needing higher level data that they won't have access to.

Then the actual officers are simply mechanism to manifest the orders of the replicated commander.
 
Interestingly enough, Altered Carbon deals with this topic, and to some extent, Dungeons and Dragon's Azure Bonds.

How far do you retain your identity, and if consciousness is unique and transferable.
 
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