CT Only: Vacc Suit Combat Rules

[Supplement Four]

I spotted these rules on page 19 of DA2: Across the Bright Face.

Vacc Suits are treated a cloth armor. If a person wearing a vacc suit is hit in combat, then throw 11+ for the face plate to shatter.

Stuff like that.



Question...

I do have a question about these rules, though. It says to throw the DEX of any one adjacent individual to fully cover a puncture hole. DM is twice* Vacc Suit skill.

If that roll fails, then throw the wearer's DEX using +1 DM per Vacc Suit skill on the next combat round (which means that character is leaking air for 30 seconds).

If that roll fails, then the air bleeds out and the character dies.



I'm not getting the "throw DEX" part. Shouldn't high DEX be beneficial? The way it reads, a lower DEX is more likely to get the puncture covered.

I guess I am reading this wrong?





*First time I've seen twice the skill used...a multiplier...as a DM. Anything goes in Classic Traveller!

 

[Supplement Four]

Also, if you check out pages 21-22, an ATV is detailed there.

That's a good example to use for any type of vehicle: Description, operation notes, performance notes, an endurance chart, etc.

 

[BlackBat242]

The rule doesn't say whether you are rolling higher, or lower, than Dex.

Yes, I know that 99% of CT rolls are "get above this", but all you have to do for this rule to make sense is to be rolling below the Dex number, with the DMs subtracting from the dice roll.

Then higher dexes are more likely to succeed, etc.

 

[mike wightman]

Skill DM being double comes up in the skill examples in LBB:1 - see admin (which actually has an example of the skill being worth +1 or +2 per level of expertise depending on the situation), engineering, forward obs has a whopping +4 per skill level, as does vacc suit.

Characteristic rolls are roll equal to or lower than characteristic, a beneficial DM will increase the target number, a hindrance would lower it.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

It is confusing when DMs (in Classic Traveller) can mean adding to die rolls or adding to target numbers.

 

[mike wightman]

It was supposed to be clear by using +DM or -DM, but like a lot of CT the authors forgot to use their own rules when writing for the supplements and adventures. The intent is obvious.

 

[Axe]

Another example of poor wording:

"Hull hits result in explosive decompression if pressure has not already been lowered. Explosive decompression kills all persons in that section unless a vacc suit is available
and put on immediately. Throw dexterity or greater to put on a vacc suit in an emergency; apply DMs of double vacc suit skill."

The Errata changes it to "dexterity or less"

 

[Supplement Four]

Throw dexterity or greater to put on a vacc suit in an emergency; apply DMs of double vacc suit skill."

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

It is confusing when DMs (in Classic Traveller) can mean adding to die rolls or adding to target numbers.

I don't think DMs are supposed to be added to the target numbers at all. At least not according to the Traveller Book.

Page 11 states that DMs are applied to the dice roll, specifically.

Is there an example of throw that modifies the target number in CT? Mike, this is your area...?

 

[Axe]

CT Refs "must really be on their game".

The flip flopping of what is good for players to roll (roll high vs roll low) and the DMs being wonky (add skill for greater success, which means subtracting the skill from the roll, OR vise versa) were never endearing. Here is only one example:

Shadows (stand-alone and within TTB):

"The knobby cable may be a method of descending into the depths of the shaft. It would require a leap to the cable (throw dexterity or less to succeed; DM + vacc suit skill, DM -3 if vacc suit skill is 0 or non-existent), followed by a slow descent (throw strength or less to succeed; DM + vacc suit skill and + endurance, DM -4 if vacc suit skill is zero or non-existent). Perform the descent throw three times (for high, moderate, and low heights). If any throw is unsuccessful, the individual falls, and will suffer 2D hits applied randomly in one lump (perhaps producing unconsciousness), and a further 2D applied in 1D units. In addition, vacc suit integrity may be broken (throw 10+; DM -vacc suit skill), which will result in instant death.

Ascending the cable follows a reverse procedure, but requires an automatic DM of -2 on each throw to cover the added strain of moving up the cable, and then leaping from an unstable position."


A successfull leap to the cable requires the player to roll low (dexterity or less).
DM + Vacc suit skill.
In practice, Vacc suit skill is subtracted from the roll.
DM -3 if Vacc suit skill 0 or none.
In practice, 3 is added to the roll.


Slow descent runs similar to the leap. It is worth wondering why a failed descent throw results in the same hits being applied for high, moderate, and low heights (although, it keeps it simple). Also, I'd like to hear the conversation of why descending slowly is another 8% more difficult than leaping and grabbing onto a cable (maybe due to a different stat being used).


Vacc suit integrity remaining intact requires a low roll by the player.
In this case, the DM for Vacc suit skill is stated logically. A player wants a low roll, so, Vacc suit skill is subtracted from the roll. The rule doesn't state "+ Vacc suit skill" (which means subtracting from the roll).

Ascending the cable puts a slightly different spin by requiring an automatic DM of -2.
In practice, to hurt the player's chances, 2 is added to the throw.


Classic Traveller. What a wicked mistress...

 

[mike wightman]

I think a lot of the time the authors go the sign of their DM wrong, it is clear in LBB:1 that DMs are applied to the number you throw on the dice, so a +DM increases your rolled number and a -DM reduces it.

For a roll high throw this is usually handled correctly, the issue appears to arise when throws are roll under.

On a roll under throw then the -DM becomes a beneficial modifier and a +DM becomes a hinderance.

The intent is often clear, the actual numbers that are written down are another thing.

The way I do it is to apply a +DM to the dice for a roll over throw, but I add the DM to the characteristic to increase it for a roll under throw, that way I can always see a +DM as beneficial.

For -DM it's the opposite, reduce the dice throw result by the DM for a roll over, reduce the characteristic by the DM for the roll under. Again, this way I always think of a -DM as being a hinderance.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I don't think DMs are supposed to be added to the target numbers at all. At least not according to the Traveller Book.

The Traveller Book is the only CT core rules I go by. Much safer that way. The wording is less ambiguous. And Referees don't have to do a mental pass/fail test first before using what they just read.

 

[mike wightman]

The Traveller Adventure has the best explanation of dice throws IMHO.