mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I agree with WJP, vacc suit skill should get the same DMs in Beltstrike for the simple reason that a basic character - including a CotI Belter - can't have zero-G combat skill.
Vacc Suit Skill
- Thread starter Supplement Four
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I agree with WJP, vacc suit skill should get the same DMs in Beltstrike for the simple reason that a basic character - including a CotI Belter - can't have zero-G combat skill.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
So, the question remains...
Beltstrike includes both Vacc Suit skill and Zero-G Environment in its Belter character generation.
But...only the Zero-G Environment skill is referenced in Zero-G Activities chart from that same product.
I'm wondering what Vacc Suit was intended for when Beltstrike was written.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
So, the question remains...
Beltstrike includes both Vacc Suit skill and Zero-G Environment in its Belter character generation.
But...only the Zero-G Environment skill is referenced in Zero-G Activities chart from that same product.
I'm wondering what Vacc Suit was intended for when Beltstrike was written.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I've just compared the Beltstrike Belter character generation tables with the ones in CotI and the Spinward Marches campaign.
All three are different to each other, and neither of the latter two have a zero-G environment skill.
I also think that the SMC version is misprinted, or the result of a cut and paste error because the skill set looks wrong...
All three are different to each other, and neither of the latter two have a zero-G environment skill.
I also think that the SMC version is misprinted, or the result of a cut and paste error because the skill set looks wrong...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I've just compared the Beltstrike Belter character generation tables with the ones in CotI and the Spinward Marches campaign.
All three are different to each other, and neither of the latter two have a zero-G environment skill.
I also think that the SMC version is misprinted, or the result of a cut and paste error because the skill set looks wrong...
All three are different to each other, and neither of the latter two have a zero-G environment skill.
I also think that the SMC version is misprinted, or the result of a cut and paste error because the skill set looks wrong...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
page 2, Introduction, Belter's Handbook.
So you would use vacc suit skill as described in LBB1, 10+ with DMs of+4 per level.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
page 2, Introduction, Belter's Handbook.
So you would use vacc suit skill as described in LBB1, 10+ with DMs of+4 per level.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hmm, nothing too specific comes to mind, just a general sense of things as outlined above. If more detail of my take still interests you...
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VaccSuit skill:
Don VaccSuit in routine conditions: Roll Dex or less with DM 4 per level of VaccSuit skill, unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in minor malfunction after 2d6 minutes.
Don VaccSuit in emergency conditions: Roll Dex or less with DM 2 per level of VaccSuit skill (copy of Book 2 explosive decompression rule), unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in major malfuncion immediately.
Deal with minor malfunction: Roll 8+ with DM 4 per level of VaccSuit skill, unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in 1D injury per turn until corrected. Examples include small tears or holes, or incorrect sealing or PLSS (portable life support system) setting.
Deal with major malfunction: Roll 10+ with DM 2 per level of VaccSuit skill, unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in 2D injury per turn until corrected. Examples include large rips or holes, or damaged sealing or PLSS unit.
-------
Zero-G Environment skill:
Routine movement: Roll 8+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU, DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control of movement, roll 8+ each round to regain control.
Double movement: Roll 10+ per round with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Same DMs as above.
Triple movement: Roll 12+ per round with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Same DMs as above.
Quadruple movement: Roll 14+ per round with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Same DMs as above.
Of course if you're not using Zero-G Environment skill all those rolls would default to VaccSuit skill.
-------
Zero-G Combat skill:
Fire a zero recoil weapon in zero-g: Roll 10+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGC skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU (allows one handed weapon only), DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4 and allows one handed weapon only), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control, roll 10+ each round to regain control. The character may not attack or defend until control is regained. Zero recoil weapons include laser weapons.
Fire a low recoil weapon in zero-g: Roll 12+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGC skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU (allows one handed weapon only), DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4 and allows one handed weapon only), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control, roll 10+ each round to regain control. The character may not attack or defend until control is regained. Low recoil weapons include snub pistols.
Fire a high recoil weapon or engage in melee in zero-g: Roll 14+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGC skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU (allows one handed weapon only), DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4 and allows one handed weapon only), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control, roll 10+ each round to regain control. The character may not attack or defend until control is regained.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hmm, nothing too specific comes to mind, just a general sense of things as outlined above. If more detail of my take still interests you...
-------
VaccSuit skill:
Don VaccSuit in routine conditions: Roll Dex or less with DM 4 per level of VaccSuit skill, unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in minor malfunction after 2d6 minutes.
Don VaccSuit in emergency conditions: Roll Dex or less with DM 2 per level of VaccSuit skill (copy of Book 2 explosive decompression rule), unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in major malfuncion immediately.
Deal with minor malfunction: Roll 8+ with DM 4 per level of VaccSuit skill, unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in 1D injury per turn until corrected. Examples include small tears or holes, or incorrect sealing or PLSS (portable life support system) setting.
Deal with major malfunction: Roll 10+ with DM 2 per level of VaccSuit skill, unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4; failure results in 2D injury per turn until corrected. Examples include large rips or holes, or damaged sealing or PLSS unit.
-------
Zero-G Environment skill:
Routine movement: Roll 8+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU, DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control of movement, roll 8+ each round to regain control.
Double movement: Roll 10+ per round with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Same DMs as above.
Triple movement: Roll 12+ per round with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Same DMs as above.
Quadruple movement: Roll 14+ per round with DM 4 per level of ZGE skill. Same DMs as above.
Of course if you're not using Zero-G Environment skill all those rolls would default to VaccSuit skill.
-------
Zero-G Combat skill:
Fire a zero recoil weapon in zero-g: Roll 10+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGC skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU (allows one handed weapon only), DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4 and allows one handed weapon only), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control, roll 10+ each round to regain control. The character may not attack or defend until control is regained. Zero recoil weapons include laser weapons.
Fire a low recoil weapon in zero-g: Roll 12+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGC skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU (allows one handed weapon only), DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4 and allows one handed weapon only), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control, roll 10+ each round to regain control. The character may not attack or defend until control is regained. Low recoil weapons include snub pistols.
Fire a high recoil weapon or engage in melee in zero-g: Roll 14+ per round to maintain control with DM 4 per level of ZGC skill. Unskilled characters are subject to a DM -4. DM +5 if using MMU (allows one handed weapon only), DM +5 if using handholds or tether (using a handhold or tether reduces effective Dex by -4 and allows one handed weapon only), DM +2 if Dex 9+ (after reduction if applicable), additional DM +2 if Dex 11+ (after reduction if applicable); failure indicates loss of control, roll 10+ each round to regain control. The character may not attack or defend until control is regained.
My take is quite simple: Most people with Vacc Suit will not have had much time in 0-G, since a significant chunk of mainworlds have V-Thin, Trace, or no atmosphere. Most spacers will have had to don/doff suits for combat or hazard situations; more often than not, the A/G isn't out.
Likewise, a lot of zero-G guys learned it inside ships or stations with atmosphere. Koenig's Rock comes to mind.
So, me, I'd give a +3 to Mr Zero-G to accurately make the leap, doubled with a propulsor of some kind; I'd make him roll for a 4+ with no DM's (essentially a Vacc Suit roll) to get the tether undone and remember to not let the faceplate hit.
Mr Vacc Suit will have no problems with the tether, nor with remembering to protect the hard-but-fragile bits, but is making the 10+ to cross with no mods for his skill. (Other mods might apply...)
Likewise, a lot of zero-G guys learned it inside ships or stations with atmosphere. Koenig's Rock comes to mind.
So, me, I'd give a +3 to Mr Zero-G to accurately make the leap, doubled with a propulsor of some kind; I'd make him roll for a 4+ with no DM's (essentially a Vacc Suit roll) to get the tether undone and remember to not let the faceplate hit.
Mr Vacc Suit will have no problems with the tether, nor with remembering to protect the hard-but-fragile bits, but is making the 10+ to cross with no mods for his skill. (Other mods might apply...)
My take is quite simple: Most people with Vacc Suit will not have had much time in 0-G, since a significant chunk of mainworlds have V-Thin, Trace, or no atmosphere. Most spacers will have had to don/doff suits for combat or hazard situations; more often than not, the A/G isn't out.
Likewise, a lot of zero-G guys learned it inside ships or stations with atmosphere. Koenig's Rock comes to mind.
So, me, I'd give a +3 to Mr Zero-G to accurately make the leap, doubled with a propulsor of some kind; I'd make him roll for a 4+ with no DM's (essentially a Vacc Suit roll) to get the tether undone and remember to not let the faceplate hit.
Mr Vacc Suit will have no problems with the tether, nor with remembering to protect the hard-but-fragile bits, but is making the 10+ to cross with no mods for his skill. (Other mods might apply...)
Likewise, a lot of zero-G guys learned it inside ships or stations with atmosphere. Koenig's Rock comes to mind.
So, me, I'd give a +3 to Mr Zero-G to accurately make the leap, doubled with a propulsor of some kind; I'd make him roll for a 4+ with no DM's (essentially a Vacc Suit roll) to get the tether undone and remember to not let the faceplate hit.
Mr Vacc Suit will have no problems with the tether, nor with remembering to protect the hard-but-fragile bits, but is making the 10+ to cross with no mods for his skill. (Other mods might apply...)
Plankowner
SOC-13
Geez, miss one evening and this is now a 2 page topic!
Well, here is my take:
Basic LBB1-3 traveller did not address 0-gee environments at all. It was sort of assumed that gravity (AG or natural) would always be there, so Vacc Suit covered any of these 0-Gee skills. In the expanded books (Belter etc) the ZGC skill was introduced and also the ZGE. At that point, the vacc suit skill from LBB1 split into 2 skills, operation of the suit itself and operation in a 0-G environment; with combat being a subset of the later.
If you are using LBB1-3 ONLY, then Vacc Suit skill implies ZGE AND ZGC skill of the same level. If you are using LBB4+ Then Vacc Suit and ZGE are still one skill, but ZGC is pulled out. Belter splits Vacc Suit and ZGE into separate skills.
I like Aramis' description above for what each character would be skilled in or worried about. In the end, the rolls may be the same, but WHAT is being rolled for is different.
As to the Belter skill set, I would say that a 1 term belter is learning to operate without atmo, such as on the hull or a ship or a large asteroid/moon. Later terms, they gain skill operating around small asteroids in a Zero G environment.
In the day, I gave Vacc Suit as ZGE at -1 and ZGC at -2. So the advantage of having Vacc Suit 3 is that you got ZGE and ZGC skills as well as being damn fast in donning that suit during explosive decompression.
Hope that helps.
Well, here is my take:
Basic LBB1-3 traveller did not address 0-gee environments at all. It was sort of assumed that gravity (AG or natural) would always be there, so Vacc Suit covered any of these 0-Gee skills. In the expanded books (Belter etc) the ZGC skill was introduced and also the ZGE. At that point, the vacc suit skill from LBB1 split into 2 skills, operation of the suit itself and operation in a 0-G environment; with combat being a subset of the later.
If you are using LBB1-3 ONLY, then Vacc Suit skill implies ZGE AND ZGC skill of the same level. If you are using LBB4+ Then Vacc Suit and ZGE are still one skill, but ZGC is pulled out. Belter splits Vacc Suit and ZGE into separate skills.
I like Aramis' description above for what each character would be skilled in or worried about. In the end, the rolls may be the same, but WHAT is being rolled for is different.
As to the Belter skill set, I would say that a 1 term belter is learning to operate without atmo, such as on the hull or a ship or a large asteroid/moon. Later terms, they gain skill operating around small asteroids in a Zero G environment.
In the day, I gave Vacc Suit as ZGE at -1 and ZGC at -2. So the advantage of having Vacc Suit 3 is that you got ZGE and ZGC skills as well as being damn fast in donning that suit during explosive decompression.
Hope that helps.
Plankowner
SOC-13
Geez, miss one evening and this is now a 2 page topic!
Well, here is my take:
Basic LBB1-3 traveller did not address 0-gee environments at all. It was sort of assumed that gravity (AG or natural) would always be there, so Vacc Suit covered any of these 0-Gee skills. In the expanded books (Belter etc) the ZGC skill was introduced and also the ZGE. At that point, the vacc suit skill from LBB1 split into 2 skills, operation of the suit itself and operation in a 0-G environment; with combat being a subset of the later.
If you are using LBB1-3 ONLY, then Vacc Suit skill implies ZGE AND ZGC skill of the same level. If you are using LBB4+ Then Vacc Suit and ZGE are still one skill, but ZGC is pulled out. Belter splits Vacc Suit and ZGE into separate skills.
I like Aramis' description above for what each character would be skilled in or worried about. In the end, the rolls may be the same, but WHAT is being rolled for is different.
As to the Belter skill set, I would say that a 1 term belter is learning to operate without atmo, such as on the hull or a ship or a large asteroid/moon. Later terms, they gain skill operating around small asteroids in a Zero G environment.
In the day, I gave Vacc Suit as ZGE at -1 and ZGC at -2. So the advantage of having Vacc Suit 3 is that you got ZGE and ZGC skills as well as being damn fast in donning that suit during explosive decompression.
Hope that helps.
Well, here is my take:
Basic LBB1-3 traveller did not address 0-gee environments at all. It was sort of assumed that gravity (AG or natural) would always be there, so Vacc Suit covered any of these 0-Gee skills. In the expanded books (Belter etc) the ZGC skill was introduced and also the ZGE. At that point, the vacc suit skill from LBB1 split into 2 skills, operation of the suit itself and operation in a 0-G environment; with combat being a subset of the later.
If you are using LBB1-3 ONLY, then Vacc Suit skill implies ZGE AND ZGC skill of the same level. If you are using LBB4+ Then Vacc Suit and ZGE are still one skill, but ZGC is pulled out. Belter splits Vacc Suit and ZGE into separate skills.
I like Aramis' description above for what each character would be skilled in or worried about. In the end, the rolls may be the same, but WHAT is being rolled for is different.
As to the Belter skill set, I would say that a 1 term belter is learning to operate without atmo, such as on the hull or a ship or a large asteroid/moon. Later terms, they gain skill operating around small asteroids in a Zero G environment.
In the day, I gave Vacc Suit as ZGE at -1 and ZGC at -2. So the advantage of having Vacc Suit 3 is that you got ZGE and ZGC skills as well as being damn fast in donning that suit during explosive decompression.
Hope that helps.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
After consideration I stuck the DMs for skill back into my take on ZGE and ZGC on the previous page. Originally I felt it was an all or nothing deal but upon consideration and to stick to the CT default I kicked it back in. I still don't think VaccSuit or Battle Dress should add as well though (especially for some and not others), except if you aren't using the ZGE and ZGC skills.
Plankowner's -1 and -2 idea isn't bad for that either.
Plankowner's -1 and -2 idea isn't bad for that either.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
After consideration I stuck the DMs for skill back into my take on ZGE and ZGC on the previous page. Originally I felt it was an all or nothing deal but upon consideration and to stick to the CT default I kicked it back in. I still don't think VaccSuit or Battle Dress should add as well though (especially for some and not others), except if you aren't using the ZGE and ZGC skills.
Plankowner's -1 and -2 idea isn't bad for that either.
Plankowner's -1 and -2 idea isn't bad for that either.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
That's why I had never heard of Zero-G Environment skill. It only appears in Beltstrike?
Is Beltstrike actually marked as "For Use With Traveller", or is do we consider it a completely separate game with its own self-contained rules system?
You know there is also Invasion Earth, Dark Nebula and Imperium. Those three are games that take place in the OTU. Are they separate games, or must we consider them canonical rules to integrate into CT?
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
That's why I had never heard of Zero-G Environment skill. It only appears in Beltstrike?
Is Beltstrike actually marked as "For Use With Traveller", or is do we consider it a completely separate game with its own self-contained rules system?
You know there is also Invasion Earth, Dark Nebula and Imperium. Those three are games that take place in the OTU. Are they separate games, or must we consider them canonical rules to integrate into CT?
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
I like this, it's a nice compromise solution. Much like Pilot skill can be used as Ship's Boat skill minus one.
I'm adopting this into my campaign.
Damn Canon.
The games do occasionally shed light: I've found MAYDAY useful in shedding light on some of the gaps in LBB2 regarding missile & sand behavior, as well as clarifying some points about evasion programs.
But for me, nearly everything after LBB123 gets to be a bloody millstone.
The games do occasionally shed light: I've found MAYDAY useful in shedding light on some of the gaps in LBB2 regarding missile & sand behavior, as well as clarifying some points about evasion programs.
But for me, nearly everything after LBB123 gets to be a bloody millstone.
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