Vacc Suit Skill

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Plankowner:

In the day, I gave Vacc Suit as ZGE at -1 and ZGC at -2. So the advantage of having Vacc Suit 3 is that you got ZGE and ZGC skills as well as being damn fast in donning that suit during explosive decompression.

I like this, it's a nice compromise solution. Much like Pilot skill can be used as Ship's Boat skill minus one.

I'm adopting this into my campaign.

 

[jawillroy]

Damn Canon.

The games do occasionally shed light: I've found MAYDAY useful in shedding light on some of the gaps in LBB2 regarding missile & sand behavior, as well as clarifying some points about evasion programs.

But for me, nearly everything after LBB123 gets to be a bloody millstone.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

My take would be Vacc Suit-1 confers at least Zero-G-0. And, your Vacc Suit skill would give you Zero-G equal to Vacc Suit minus 1 or 2. Zero-G would give you nothing in relation to Vacc Suit.

I don't differentiate Zero-G Combat from Zero-G Manuever.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

My take would be Vacc Suit-1 confers at least Zero-G-0. And, your Vacc Suit skill would give you Zero-G equal to Vacc Suit minus 1 or 2. Zero-G would give you nothing in relation to Vacc Suit.

I don't differentiate Zero-G Combat from Zero-G Manuever.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Is Beltstrike actually marked as "For Use With Traveller", or is do we consider it a completely separate game with its own self-contained rules system?

As I quoted earlier:

This module is designed as a companion to Starter Traveller, and is specifically oriented to the information, rules, concepts, and background presented there. It is consistent, however, with all Traveller rules sets and can be used in conjunction with any of them: The Traveller Book, Basic Traveller, or Deluxe Traveller.

Beltstrike is a scenario pack for CT.

You know there is also Invasion Earth, Dark Nebula and Imperium. Those three are games that take place in the OTU. Are they separate games, or must we consider them canonical rules to integrate into CT?

They are part of the history of the OTU, but the rules in those games deal with fleet level engagements and so don't translate down to the PC/rpg level very well (if at all).

And a few bits in Imperium and Dark Nebula are conveniently ignored in the greater canon - refueling from stars and terraforming worlds to name two...

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
Is Beltstrike actually marked as "For Use With Traveller", or is do we consider it a completely separate game with its own self-contained rules system?

As I quoted earlier:

This module is designed as a companion to Starter Traveller, and is specifically oriented to the information, rules, concepts, and background presented there. It is consistent, however, with all Traveller rules sets and can be used in conjunction with any of them: The Traveller Book, Basic Traveller, or Deluxe Traveller.

Beltstrike is a scenario pack for CT.

You know there is also Invasion Earth, Dark Nebula and Imperium. Those three are games that take place in the OTU. Are they separate games, or must we consider them canonical rules to integrate into CT?

They are part of the history of the OTU, but the rules in those games deal with fleet level engagements and so don't translate down to the PC/rpg level very well (if at all).

And a few bits in Imperium and Dark Nebula are conveniently ignored in the greater canon - refueling from stars and terraforming worlds to name two...

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Beltstrike is a scenario pack for CT.

Ahh then that's one thing I learned here. If it was originally intended for use with CT, then it's own rules *should* be considered... or shoe'd in somehow with the rest of the LBB rules.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Beltstrike is a scenario pack for CT.

Ahh then that's one thing I learned here. If it was originally intended for use with CT, then it's own rules *should* be considered... or shoe'd in somehow with the rest of the LBB rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Beltstrike is a scenario pack for CT.

Ahh then that's one thing I learned here. If it was originally intended for use with CT, then it's own rules *should* be considered... or shoe'd in somehow with the rest of the LBB rules. </font>[/QUOTE]If you've never seen Starter Traveller, don't let the name fool you. It's really not a "beginner" set of rules with a lot of things missing (in fact, there are some things in Starter Traveller that aren't in other versions of Traveller--like Range Band-based Book 2 Space Combat, Pulse Laser DMs, and a nifty charts booklet).

Starter Traveller is not as expansive as The Traveller Book, but if ST doesn't have everything that LBB's 1-3 have in them, I'd be surprised.

Starter Traveller is definitely a worthy set of rules to own.

There were two boxed "adventures" for Starter Traveller. These were more like campaigns, or detailed settings (somewhat akin to the Traveller Adventure, but not as detailed). Those two adventure scenarios were: Beltstrike, which deals with belters in the Bowman Belt of District 268, and Tarsus, another world in the same subsector.

Both of these adventures are well worth owning. (Think the Adventures and Double Adventures in LBB format, except they come boxed.)

Neither Tarsus or Beltstrike are "games" in the sence that Dark Nebula or Fifth Frontier War is a "game". Tarsus and Belstrike are adventure scenarios for Traveller.

Ahh then that's one thing I learned here. If it was originally intended for use with CT, then it's own rules *should* be considered... or shoe'd in somehow with the rest of the LBB rules.

Pretty much: Starter Traveller = LBBs Traveller = The Traveller Book.

They're all pretty close to each other (a different tweak here, a different tweak there).

They're all pretty much the same rules set, with just a tad variation.

And, they're all inter-changeable (so much so that I think of them all as "Traveller", not as individual rules sets).

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Beltstrike is a scenario pack for CT.

Ahh then that's one thing I learned here. If it was originally intended for use with CT, then it's own rules *should* be considered... or shoe'd in somehow with the rest of the LBB rules. </font>[/QUOTE]If you've never seen Starter Traveller, don't let the name fool you. It's really not a "beginner" set of rules with a lot of things missing (in fact, there are some things in Starter Traveller that aren't in other versions of Traveller--like Range Band-based Book 2 Space Combat, Pulse Laser DMs, and a nifty charts booklet).

Starter Traveller is not as expansive as The Traveller Book, but if ST doesn't have everything that LBB's 1-3 have in them, I'd be surprised.

Starter Traveller is definitely a worthy set of rules to own.

There were two boxed "adventures" for Starter Traveller. These were more like campaigns, or detailed settings (somewhat akin to the Traveller Adventure, but not as detailed). Those two adventure scenarios were: Beltstrike, which deals with belters in the Bowman Belt of District 268, and Tarsus, another world in the same subsector.

Both of these adventures are well worth owning. (Think the Adventures and Double Adventures in LBB format, except they come boxed.)

Neither Tarsus or Beltstrike are "games" in the sence that Dark Nebula or Fifth Frontier War is a "game". Tarsus and Belstrike are adventure scenarios for Traveller.

Ahh then that's one thing I learned here. If it was originally intended for use with CT, then it's own rules *should* be considered... or shoe'd in somehow with the rest of the LBB rules.

Pretty much: Starter Traveller = LBBs Traveller = The Traveller Book.

They're all pretty close to each other (a different tweak here, a different tweak there).

They're all pretty much the same rules set, with just a tad variation.

And, they're all inter-changeable (so much so that I think of them all as "Traveller", not as individual rules sets).

 

[Supplement Four]

Just thinking out loud...

Vacc Suit

Battle Dress Sub-set of Vacc Suit? Since Vacc Suit can be used as Battle Dress?

Zero-G Environment A Sub-set of Vacc Suit as well? Can you use your Z-G Environ skill to help you don your Vacc Suit quickly? I would think so. Vacc Suit is the broad skill, and it has been broken down into two different skills: Z-G Environ and Z-G Combat?

Zero-G Combat Another sub-set of Vacc Suit? This is the "combat" portion of Vacc Suit skill?

---------------------------

I would think that Vacc Suit is the broad skill. Zero-G Enviornment, Zero-G Combat, and Battle Dress are all more narrow versions of Vacc Suit.

So...

Vacc Suit should be able to be used in place of any of those skills...

Someone has mentioned: Vacc Suit minus 1 (maybe) can be used as any of those skills?

 

[Supplement Four]

Just thinking out loud...

Vacc Suit

Battle Dress Sub-set of Vacc Suit? Since Vacc Suit can be used as Battle Dress?

Zero-G Environment A Sub-set of Vacc Suit as well? Can you use your Z-G Environ skill to help you don your Vacc Suit quickly? I would think so. Vacc Suit is the broad skill, and it has been broken down into two different skills: Z-G Environ and Z-G Combat?

Zero-G Combat Another sub-set of Vacc Suit? This is the "combat" portion of Vacc Suit skill?

---------------------------

I would think that Vacc Suit is the broad skill. Zero-G Enviornment, Zero-G Combat, and Battle Dress are all more narrow versions of Vacc Suit.

So...

Vacc Suit should be able to be used in place of any of those skills...

Someone has mentioned: Vacc Suit minus 1 (maybe) can be used as any of those skills?

 

[aramis]

Why would most of the Vacc-Suited many have ANY 0-G experience. If we make a generous assumption of a whopping 1% of people being spacers, the vast majority of vacc suits will be for planetside use.

Battle Dress is a specialized (and probably even more "dirtside only") subset of operating the suit itself. It also would allow for using the bells and whistles.

These two overlap. Almost all of Vacc Suit would be covered by BD, but a significant chunk (the augment features, etc) probably wouldn't be useful without the BD skill itself.

ZGE is "life in 0-G" skill; how to use the commode, how to not spill your food, how to tie yourself down, take a bath, etc.

ZGC is "How to apply interpersonal force to a resisting target". How to leverage, how to brace, how to avoid spinning off into the middle of the room.

ZGE and ZGC both would allow mods to avoid space sickness.

Let's use Ender's Game as an example. The kids there get only ZGC. They can fight quite effectively, and even move without a problem. What they won't be comfy with is eating in 0-G, using the fresher, keeping from flinging their M&M's across the cabin, remembering to do the daily exercises needed for bone health, remembering to tie down for bed time.

Most NASA types will be just the opposite. They can move around, eat, drink, be merry; they are unlikely to be able to fight effectively. (Well, with firearms, anybody can get off one good shot...)

And while NASA DOES train all of them in Vacc Suit, there's no good reason for most of them to have it above 0; very few go EVA.

No, Vacc Suit and ZGC should be separate... the only confusion in the way the skill system grew.

 

[aramis]

Why would most of the Vacc-Suited many have ANY 0-G experience. If we make a generous assumption of a whopping 1% of people being spacers, the vast majority of vacc suits will be for planetside use.

Battle Dress is a specialized (and probably even more "dirtside only") subset of operating the suit itself. It also would allow for using the bells and whistles.

These two overlap. Almost all of Vacc Suit would be covered by BD, but a significant chunk (the augment features, etc) probably wouldn't be useful without the BD skill itself.

ZGE is "life in 0-G" skill; how to use the commode, how to not spill your food, how to tie yourself down, take a bath, etc.

ZGC is "How to apply interpersonal force to a resisting target". How to leverage, how to brace, how to avoid spinning off into the middle of the room.

ZGE and ZGC both would allow mods to avoid space sickness.

Let's use Ender's Game as an example. The kids there get only ZGC. They can fight quite effectively, and even move without a problem. What they won't be comfy with is eating in 0-G, using the fresher, keeping from flinging their M&M's across the cabin, remembering to do the daily exercises needed for bone health, remembering to tie down for bed time.

Most NASA types will be just the opposite. They can move around, eat, drink, be merry; they are unlikely to be able to fight effectively. (Well, with firearms, anybody can get off one good shot...)

And while NASA DOES train all of them in Vacc Suit, there's no good reason for most of them to have it above 0; very few go EVA.

No, Vacc Suit and ZGC should be separate... the only confusion in the way the skill system grew.

 

[mike wightman]

"jumping untethered from one ship to another", 10+ DM +4 per skill level implies zero-g training to me

However, I do agree that a separate ZGE skill is a good idea - but that is how the skill list starts to grow and character generation has to grant more skills...

Years ago I adapted the SPI Universe environ matrix to Traveller characters, but I can't quite remember how

 

[mike wightman]

"jumping untethered from one ship to another", 10+ DM +4 per skill level implies zero-g training to me

However, I do agree that a separate ZGE skill is a good idea - but that is how the skill list starts to grow and character generation has to grant more skills...

Years ago I adapted the SPI Universe environ matrix to Traveller characters, but I can't quite remember how