Vargr Language Arrghoun dialect

[snrdg082102]

Howdy Carlobrand,

Page 4: "Vargr expansion was stopped in the trailing direction by the Windhorn Rift, a region where stellar density is insufficient to permit easy travel. This was probably a lucky thing for the Vargr, for, beyond the Windhorn, the Vilani lmperium held sway at this time. Dedicated to maintaining the status quo of the Pax Vilanica, the Vilani emperors would most likely have attempted to subdue the Vargr had they been aware of their existence, for it was accepted Imperial policy at that time that no race possessing the secret of the jump drive should be allowed to exist independently.

The biggest problem I have with CT AM3 is that there are no dates given between the start of the Vargr expansion in -3790 and when they started going around both ends of the Windhorn Rift in -2400.

MT Alien Vol.1 Vilani and Vargr does some filling in of the 1,590 year gap between -3790 and -2400.

MT Alien Vol. 1 page 20 indicates that the decline of the First Imperium began in -3000 by -2800 insurrections, mutinies, and small border wars became increasingly common. Sometime around -2800 but prior to -2400 a self-appointed governor ruling parts of Provence, my guess is the Uekhoung and/or Daekvagul subsectors, Corridor (Amshagi?), and Deneb was the first Vilani to deal with the Vargr, equipping a Vargr mercenary unit in his unsuccessful bid for power.

MT Alien Vol. 1 page 60 agrees that when the early Vargr explorers met the barrier to trailing which is Windhorn Rift was fortunate since the First Imperium would have tried to subjugate them.

MT Alien Vol. 1 page 60 indicates that the initial expansion slowed around -2700. Sometime around -2700 the Vilani governor Tazzik Kuluunaddar controlled parts of both the Corridor and Provence Sectors, and was nominal ruler of the regions beyond. Many historians, both Vargr and human, identify him as the first Vilani human to have dealt with the Vargr.

"As the First lmperium declined, various provincial governors with ambitions of personal advancement took to arming and outfitting 'barbarian' mercenaries from beyond the boundaries. One such governor, who controlled the area now comprising portions of Deneb, Corridor, and Provence sectors, is believed to have been the first human to have had dealings with the Vargr, probably after Vargr corsairs raided a world at the edge of his province. This governor supplied arms and equipment to a large corsair group who were employed in his bid for power. Though he was defeated, he had set a precedent; the Vargr knew about the First lmperium and were interested in the wealth of that decadent civilization; by this point in time, Vilani troubles were such that there was no question of imposing the Pax Vilanica over these 'barbarians' from beyond the Windhorn."

AM3 itself declares that the first human contact with Vargr was by the Vilani, some time very late in the First Imperium era or very early in the Interstellar Wars period - as Whulorigan points out, toward the end of the Ziru Sirka. Some of the elements in Gvurrdon's Adventure, also in AM3, make clear that Gvurrdon's contact with the Zhodani occurred in about the same era, probably very close to the time the Vargr were encountering the Vilani. This becomes in some ways a "who discovered America first" exercise, since the incidents are fairly close historically. However, the Zho didn't have contact with the Vilani until a few hundred years after, ~-2000.

I do not see how CT AM3 page 4 "...is believed to have been the first human to have had dealings with the Vargr... declares that the first human contact with the Vargr in CT AM3 was the Vilani.

CT AM3 pages 3-4 states that the Vargr expansion started -3790 from Lair. There is a hint that Vargr expansion radiated in all direction from Lair, unfortunately there is not any mention of anything except what went on going rimward and trailing. No dates are given for 1,370 detailing when the expansion rimward and trailing from Lair ran into the Windhorn Rift preventing contact with the First Imperium. Further there is not date given when the Vargr came to the attention of the governor that controlled parts of the Provence, Corridor, and Deneb sectors. The next dates are -2400 through -1700 when the Vargr start a second round of expansion going around both edges of the Windhorn Rift.

Gvurrdon's Story page 45 Note 26 gives us a hint that Vargr expansion that started in -3790 was also going on spinward and rimward of Lair too. The Zhodani Consolate was expanding towards the trailing edge when the Makarn Trading Combine encountered Vargr expanding spinward in -2800.

There are some conflicts here. The myth is described as being in a 2500 year old Vargr tongue, but some of the names thrown about in the myth place the contact around or just before -2480, while AM4 says the Zho bumped into the Vargr in -2800, and current game time is generally some time after 1100, placing the incidents between 3.6 and 4 thousand years in the past. Possibly the text is translated from an earlier language; the crates found later are in a Vargr tongue other than Arrghoun. As to the discrepancy between AM3 and AM4, I'd tend to call it errata and side with AM3.

Current game time is 1111 and I agree that the document, per CT AM3 page 42, was written on paper dated to be 2,000 years old was written in Arrghoun which was a prominent language 2,500 years earlier in the Gvurrdon Sector and translated from an earlier Vargr dialect.

CT AM3 page 45 Note 26 states that the Makarin Trading Combine operated in the trailing edge of the Zhondai Consolate from -2800 to -1700.

CT AM3 page 44 states the Gvurrdon left his world during the rule of Serratogz and per Note 11 was deposed by Knurroe in about -2480.

Using the two dates -2800 and -2480 I am guessing that the Makarin traders did not make first contact with Gvurrdon.

However there is no doubt in my mind that after 990 years of Vargr expansion towards each other that they would met.

At any rate, the Zho and Vilani would have encountered the Vargr independently and before they encountered each other, therefore either party would have created their own independent words for Vargr or would have based their word on whatever word the local Vargr clan they encountered happened to use - which might well have been different. The idea that the Vilani word might have fallen into disuse and been replaced by a Terran word during the Rule of Man period is interesting and deserves consideration, especially as you're not finding anything that connects the word to Vilani or Zho roots and there's clear similarity to a Terran language. I agree that it's the best hypothesis so far.

Yep I agree that when Terrans ran into the Vargr they had someone that looked at them and knew the word Vargr which they applied to them.

Hopefully the above makes sense I've been working on the reply for about six hours total, not at one sitting.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy all,

I am still plugging along with working through CT AM 3 Arrghoun Language by going through the vocabulary on page 22 and 23 breaking them down into syllable components.

Back on Post 26 I indicated that Arrghoun word Vargr does not appear to be possible based on the language word generation rules in CT AM 3 and CT AM 4. My only language word generation source for Vilani is in MT Alien Volume I, which is not able to create the word Vargr.

Posts 27 through 41 appear to have established that Arrghoun and Gvegh are related languages in the Gvurrdon Sector and surrounding areas.

Based on the word generation final consonant tables the closest to word vargr that Gvegh or Arrghoun can come is varrg or varrgh. My guess is that vargr was derived from contact with Terran/Solomani visitors per my research and the discussion in posts 27 through 41.

Based on the information I feel that one or more of the following suggestions be submitted as errata.

1. The Arrghoun word vargr should be changed to varrg or varrgh. My preference is varrg. In either case the Anglic translation should have something to do with being the first people or something that it is the name for the collective race.

2. The Gvegh final consonant table should include the syllable component of rgr to allow for the inclusion of the Anglic word vargr.

3. The Anglic translation of the for vargr is wolf.

 

[robject]

*THREAD RESURRECT*

*THREAD RESURRECT*

Tom, I'm interested in seeing what you've got for Gvegh and Arrghoun. I assume you haven't worked on it for four years. But if you're still here, can you dust it off and check it out?

Let me know. Thanks.

Rob

 

[robject]

ARRGHOUN GRAMMAR (AM03 p26, 42, etc)

Arrghoun was a language used in Gvurrdon sector 2500 years ago (p42).

"Analysis of the paper of the document places its age at about 2,000 years old." Just wow. Paper that survives 2,000 years, is possibly not "paper" as we know it. TL9+ paper, perhaps, whatever that is.


Proto-Arrghoun had these features, which were lost in Arrghoun (p26):
* noun declensions (like Latin)
* gender differences (like Spanish)
* "elaborate" prefixes and suffixes (like synthetic languages)

Arrghoun is a "relatively simple" synthetic language by comparison to its ancestor. I would guess that this "means" that the language is more "analytic".


SENTENCE STRUCTURE

No surprises here: it looks sorta like English with basic Spanish-like (sort of?) verb inflections. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[[ADJECTIVES] SUBJECT] - [ADVERBS] - VERB - [[ADJECTIVES] OBJECT].


VERBS

Verbs are inflected for tense and person (1,2,3, singular and plural), similar to Spanish (for instance). Tenses are quite simple in meaning. The same form can represent perfect or imperfect, progressive, and so on.

Verb Prefixes

sa-   All past tenses
ngu-  All future tenses

Verb Suffixes

-te   1s
-de   1p  ([I]sasenghikde[/I], we travelled)
-tas  2s  ([I]thoentas[/I], are you...)
-das  2p  (predicted; I don't think an example is in the text)
-tes  3s
-des  3p  ([I]sazeknungdes[/I], we were cruel)

Enclitics can further modify the verb. I suspect, though cannot know, that there are enclitics which may specify verb perfection, progression, and so on, but that's for another time (quite literally: that might be a development towards Gvegh).

Verb Enclitics

+tsoe  command

NOUNS

It seems that nouns are relatively simple.

Plurals are marked with a -z (-rz with vowel-final nouns).

Possession is shown by the noun enclitic fa, which might be a gerund.


ADVERBS

It looks to me that adverbs come before the verb. Example: ke zlanveng sathollrraenggangutes, and carefully spoke we.

Productive Morphology. There does appear to be a potentially productive adverbial ending -veng: aezhokveng slowly, zlanveng carefully. Potentially there could be verbs hidden here: aezhok to be slow, zlan to take care. That's backed up by ksoesueng, be secret, and ksoesuengveng, secretly.


ADJECTIVES

Adjectives come before the noun, as in English. Also like English, there's no agreement in number with the noun.

...kfe dak fuedhue ghaekh gozourz ke agedzllae: ...one of great sleek ships and return home

Unlike Adverbs, no neat "adjective making" suffix presents itself to me.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening PDT robject,

*THREAD RESURRECT*

Tom, I'm interested in seeing what you've got for Gvegh and Arrghoun. I assume you haven't worked on it for four years. But if you're still here, can you dust it off and check it out?

Let me know. Thanks.

Rob

I admit that I have not worked on the language file since 11/30/2013 and the spreadsheet that my attempts to figure out the route Gvurrdon took in the story was done 12/25/2013. I've taken a look at the material unfortunately nothing has kicked started my memory.

I can zip my files and send them to you if you use my email address. Hopefully by that time I may remember what I was doing.