Weapons aboard ship?

[BlackBat242]

All I can say is... if I were an insurance company covering starships that carried passengers, I would darned sure want any potential hijack-enabling weapons those passengers might have to be locked up... for both the security of the ship (and thus my financial interest), and of the passengers themselves (same as before).

Now, also consider the influence that said insurance companies can wield... the financial institution that holds the mortgage on your ship won't let you space without proper insurance, so if insurance is withheld, cargo can't ship and commerce is halted.

And those financial institutions have their own influence... so just maybe that LBB2 rule is there because Lloyds of Vland and the Central Merchantile Bank of Capital (&cetera) insist that ship captains be granted the authority to order such weapons locked up.

Whether those captains actually exercise that right is a different matter... but if the captain feels that a particular passenger/group seem suspicious and invokes that regulation, rest assured the insurance companies and financial houses would back him up tooth & nail, as he is protecting their interests!

 

[rancke]

All I can say is... if I were an insurance company covering starships that carried passengers, I would darned sure want any potential hijack-enabling weapons those passengers might have to be locked up... for both the security of the ship (and thus my financial interest), and of the passengers themselves (same as before).

Leaving aside the relative influence of insurance companies and the Imperium, allowing Imperial officers to retain their sidearms might be considered a good way to discourage hijack attempts.


Hans

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Whether those captains actually exercise that right is a different matter...

Most probably will - forget losing their licence, they might get killed! - but some will be too lazy, greedy, or dumb to bother.

 

[BlackBat242]

Leaving aside the relative influence of insurance companies and the Imperium, allowing Imperial officers to retain their sidearms might be considered a good way to discourage hijack attempts.


Hans

In other words... unofficial "Space Marshalls"... like the "Sky Marshalls" governments currently employ aboard airliners to prevent hijackings?

Makes sense... but those are Imperial officials... not "run-of-the-mill" ordinary passengers... and employees of non-governmental Mercenary units don't count as Imperial officials... they are more like "annoying pests that pay well".

 

[stealth]

Huh?

Um, don't all passenger weapons get checked into the ships arms locker as standard procedure? I mean, that's the way we've done for 30 years. That, and run anti-highjack programs so you can vary the grav plating and air pressure....

 

[rancke]

Um, don't all passenger weapons get checked into the ships arms locker as standard procedure? I mean, that's the way we've done for 30 years.

One might, but I don't want to. See, I dislike that uncompromising "The captain locks up the weapons" rule. Part of the reason I dislike it is that it's a 20th Centurism. That's how we do things nowadays, but that doesn't make it a universal truth. Just imagine the captain of an Age of Sail East Indiaman demanding that a King's officer traveling on his ship turn over that pair of duelling pistols in his luggage. The captain wouldn't dream of doing any such thing and if he did, the officer would be highly offended. The captain would have the right to order the officer off his ship, of course, but I doubt he'd stay a captain once the Army had complained to the Company (social and political connections of the two gentlemen being assumed to not be a factor).

Now, just because something is a 20th Centurism isn't grounds in itself to dislike it (unless you prefer as much "We're not in Kansas anymore" feeling as you can get, anyway). But it is grounds to consider if it's a good idea. The notion that the Imperium wouldn't make sure its servants would be able to carry their sidearms aboard the ships that their tickets entitle them to ride (a High Passage force the captain to evict another passenger) doesn't seem right to me. And as an adventure-writer I regret the plot potential that such a rule deprive me of.

Hans

 

[rancke]

Makes sense... but those are Imperial officials... not "run-of-the-mill" ordinary passengers... and employees of non-governmental Mercenary units don't count as Imperial officials... they are more like "annoying pests that pay well".

Check the first post in this thread.


Hans

 

[Commander Truestar]

Imperial Charters.....

We are going to have to disagree on Charters...

Having seen what is involved in a LIC and various other methods of organizing companies, they generally cover the responsabilities of the company to follow all appropriate commerce laws, etc.. They do not get involved in the nitty gritty of things.
If your opinion alllows them to change such comfort policies as those who can travel armed on a ship, then you also grant them the ability to decide what kind of toilet paper must be used simply by slipping it into an Imperial charter. To grant the broad authority to over rule a Captain on their own vessle is a very powerful edict.

All National entities have a "charter" with companies serving in their terriroty which states that the so chartered organization will follow all laws of commerce, etc and who is reponsible in a breach. This protects people as it defines who can be held liable. It was fostered by the US market crash of 1929 where individual "know-nothing" stock holders were drained to destitution because they had a handful of shares of a company that went under.

I agree that The Imperium is a feudial empire, but I think you are over thinking the nature of the charter. Your version would give any Locally Senior Imperial officer the right to alter ANY facet of operation simply by saying, "I am the senior Imperial offier in charge of interpeting and enforcing the Imperial Charter in this space. So you will do as I command".

To put this in OTU terms, the Tukeras in charge in the Aramis System(Aramis Subsector/Spinward Marches) would be able to use their power to re-route Oberlindes vessels to the loss of Oberlindes megaCorp simply because they control the Aramis Subsector and compete with Oberlindes...


Marc

 

[stealth]

Hmmm....

IMTU a Free Trader ship captain is a law unto himself (for instance, he can select which passengers to carry, and unlike a chartered line, can't be forced to bump passengers).

I've always let nobles go discretly armed on even Law-9 worlds (sword and pistol), to add flavor. This is due to "beneficience" (i.e. needs) of the Emperor. Nobles are different in a society based on personal loyalties instead of a constitution.

Could Captain Han Solo ask you to turn over your weapons if your a noble? Well, if you wan't to board his ship, you play by his rules.

But then I let tramp traders get away with a lot.

 

[aramis]

See, the thing is the tramps and subbies are described as the primary mode of trade in the 3I (Supp 7)... therefore, I presume all the customs mentioned in the rules are based upon laws enforced upon them... They don't get away with much, they are where 90% of the sorties are, and 95% of the law enforcement, and the 3I is notably ruthless about enforcement, so why would they go soft on merchants?

Besides, allowing knives will satisfy most cults, and doesn't make much good against the cutlasses and pistols of the crew.

 

[rancke]

See, the thing is the tramps and subbies are described as the primary mode of trade in the 3I (Supp 7)...

But this is contradicted by other canon information (Merchant Prince, The Traveller Adventure) and by common sense. Big ships have a lesser per unit transportation cost than small ships. Thus big ships will be used wherever there is sufficient traffic to support them and small ships will be relegated to filling out the niches left by the big ships. And while there may be many niches, each of them can only support a few small ships (because if a niche could support many small ships, it could also support big ships). So you need a couple of niches to outweigh every single big ship.

Moreover, where you do have a steady niche for a small ship, it will often be filled by a regular company ship, relegating tramps and subbies to the niches left over by the small company ships.

Therefore, I presume all the customs mentioned in the rules are based on laws and customs that apply to tramps. These laws and customs may (in many cases definitely do) also apply to regular ships. But not necessarily in all cases.

Besides, allowing knives will satisfy most cults, and doesn't make much good against the cutlasses and pistols of the crew.

Passengers are allowed to keep their long blades too, and I've been told that at close quarters a knife is extremly dangerous to a pistol-armed person.


Hans

 

[shadowdragon]

Current policy in many, if not most or all, police departments - et cetera, in the USA is that a knife wielding subject within 21 feet of another human being constitutes a deadly threat and qualifies for the use of deadly force by the officer in question. Unless they just happen to already have the tasers out, this means the artillery comes out. Supposedly this is because a person can cover 20 feet in less than a second if agitated or motivated and therefore can engage and injure or kill a peace officer before the officer can pull his weapon out and defend himself.