What if T5 development was stopped?

[plop101]

Evil Doctor Ganymede replys:

Actually, no I haven't [Smile] . Well, I guess I've heard it a bit about T20, but I've never heard anyone claim that GURPS was like CT. In fact, I've heard more people pouring scorn on GURPS because it's nothing like CT.

Oh yeah, I have heard it lots of times. Way back when, about, oh, 2-3 years ago when I was on the TML, all the GT people where saying, 'GT, just like CT,' as if to justify it. I notice some of the T20 folks are doing pretty much the same thing these days. I expect at any time to hear someone start screaming 'burn your CT books because our system is the only true system.'Whatever. If cancer didn't kill me, the anti-CT crowd ain't gonna kill me either.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by plop101:
Oh yeah, I have heard it lots of times. Way back when, about, oh, 2-3 years ago when I was on the TML, all the GT people where saying, 'GT, just like CT,' as if to justify it.

Interesting. You must have been reading a different TML than I was.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Originally posted by plop101:
Oh yeah, I have heard it lots of times. Way back when, about, oh, 2-3 years ago when I was on the TML, all the GT people where saying, 'GT, just like CT,' as if to justify it.

I suspect they were probably talking more about the SETTING, which is more like CT in the sense that there's no assassination of Strephon, no Virus, whatever. The GT universe is basically what the CT OTU would be like around the year 1120.

But the system is certainly nothing like CT at all. POint-based, non-random character generation, 3d6 for skills, etc.

I notice some of the T20 folks are doing pretty much the same thing these days. I expect at any time to hear someone start screaming 'burn your CT books because our system is the only true system.'Whatever. If cancer didn't kill me, the anti-CT crowd ain't gonna kill me either.

[/qb]

Funnily enough, I hear most of the 'burn your books because our system is the One True System for Traveller' type arguments coming from CT fans rather than being aimed at them... personally, I prefer GT but I really couldn't give a toss what system other people preferred. So long as you're playing Traveller, it's all good.

 

[Morte]

May I ask you long term Travellers a question out of curiosity, since I played CT for a bit in about 1979 and didn't touch it again until T20 recently:

How much difference between the various editions is there, on the cosmic scale. Is it like 2e vs 3 e in D&D, or D&D 3.0 vs 3.5, or D&D vs Rolemaster, or... ?

To put it another way, here are my T20 house rules:

1. You get to reroll up to four survival/promotion/enlistment rolls during chargen.

2. No psionics in the game. They exist in the setting (Gateway 993), but they never impinge on play.

3. Nobody plays a vargyr.

Now which is more different from pure T20, CT/MT/etc or my game?

 

[TheDS]

I daresay that no version of Traveller is ABOUT Chargen. Many like to point out the differences between random and point-based, and extoll the virtues of one over the other, but in the end, who really cares? The important thing is that you make a character you want to play (or settle for playing, in some cases) and play the game.

There is no such thing as a "pure Traveller experience". Everyone, since day 1, has had their own way of doing things (since day 1 required you to invent your own universe). A lot of people like the task system of MT, a lot of people like the D20 system. Who really cares what the core rules are, as long as they're somewhat consistent with themselves? I use the core of Aurora in the game I'm running. Makes translating guns and ships a bit of a challenge, but we're not to the point where it matters yet.

Once you've decided how you want to resolve events and actions, next you need a universe to play in. There's plenty of Traveller timeframe out there. Don't like the Rebellion? You've got plenty of options. Don't like the Virus? You've got plenty of options. I personally use my own universe, and have taken Traveller's TLs as a guideline, since I'm more comfortable with it than with other games' TLs. I use a lot of stuff. But in the end, the game is of my design, and things work mostly by technological explanation instead of magical means.

It's hard to say any one edition is the best or worst. As long as you get the results that you want to get, who cares what system you use? There can never be "one system to unite them all".

 

[theSea]

Some ramblings here....


To address the Evil Doctor's question... I probably wouldn't notice if development of T5 were officially halted. At this point I have enough crunchy Traveller goodness on hand to hold me for quite a while, and if nothing is forthcoming from Mr. Miller - well then there are other licensee's working on things.

I *would* like to see a lot more separation between the rules system(s) and the background. It really irked me how much editing and expurgation had to be done to the MTlayers Book to get it to the point where I could hand a copy to my players for an 1105 campaign without dumping spoilers. Such a thing would be impossible with TNE as the rules and setting are more tightly intertwined than Win98 and IE.

But of course I fly in the face of conventional wisdom (probably economics too) by insisting that a great RPG does NOT have to come with a full blown setting woven into its chromosomes.

I really love the rules system embodied by CT and MT (i.e. CT++) - elegant and adaptable to many different eras and settings. MY preference.

Likewise, I have a lot of respect for the work and talent that went into the GDW 'house' system, Gurps and D20 - they just don't happen to be equally to my tastes as a ref (GM).

I'm also a big fan of the OTU - mostly the Spinward Marches around 1105. I like the idea of two parallel histories starting in 1116 and would like to see more development of the 'Strephon lives' timeline. The forthcoming IW sourcebook from SJG sounds fascinating, and I am also waiting to see what MJD does with the 1248 sourcebook. Hopefully it will be a great example of a rules independent OTU sourcebook, do incredibly well and spawn a wealth of system neutral OTU books in *all* eras.

The system neutral OTU sourcebook is a wonderful thing... everyone who plays any version of Traveller can use one and they would serve to keep the Traveller flame burning in the most efficient way possible.

That said, I'm firmly in the camp that would like to see a setting neutral, minimal errata, CT++ released, which could stand as the definitive 'Traveller' rules set. It was very good and minimally broke - *just* fix it. (yes I know, I'm an old fart - sue me)

I wonder what a license to do such a thing would cost..... Oh well, since I don't have a large fortune to turn into a small fortune in the game biz, the question is moot.

It seems that Marc is not headed in that (CT++) direction either. Well - he's the game designer and if T4++ is what he wants then that's his prerogative. I'll check out what (if anything) he releases and try to judge it on its own merits. In the meantime I'll be among those clamoring for more reprints and errata free MT .pdf series.

Anyways - just my cr0.02 heaped onto the debate. Enjoy - discuss.

--michael