Consider this. . .
Have you ever made a mistake in your professional life at all?
Now. . . Did you know you were making a mistake at the time?
Okay, okay, that is a circular argument
Why pay more for less (from What you like about MGT)
- Thread starter mbrinkhues
- Start date
Consider this. . .
Have you ever made a mistake in your professional life at all?
Now. . . Did you know you were making a mistake at the time?
Okay, okay, that is a circular argument
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
With enough resources and and a do-abel deadline. That are the two key elements for a good product after all. OTOH few people expect an RPG company to make the deadline anyway and with time resources will always match QA problems
beowulf2044
SOC-12
I'm still waiting for GDW to fix all the typos and mistakes on their products.
Matt,
When I say "on the cheap", I'm not simply referring to production costs. Mongoose hasn't scrimped financially on the acquisition or the physical production of MgT obviously.
Time is a large part of "on the cheap". Design skills are a part of "on the cheap". Playtesting is a part, as are writing, editing, proofreading, fact checking, and other activities. Art is even a part of "on the cheap"
You bought your license, made your press release, and needed products now. You needed something to go out the door now. It didn't matter that Traveller was never truly generic, it didn't matter that MgT is a long way was from being generic. You needed something on store shelves now. You couldn't wait to produce an actual generic rules set, after all you couldn't wait for real playtesting or editing.
You needed products now, so you were forced to produce them on the cheap.
People asked for it because it is necessary.
Regards,
Bill
I, for one, don't want to drive you away. I want to win your friendship and influence you to use your powers for Good rather than Evil.
Hans
Matt,
Gygax's ex-wife began a process that took D&D from what was essentially a handcrafted, hobbyist run business setting and put it on the path towards being part of a professionally run business. That's an improvement.
Suggesting your role may be the same isn't being rude.
Regards,
Bill
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
If it where typos, I wouldn't have cared (nor would most others). I neither hunt for them nor do I find any but the most glaring. Even less so when using foreign languages.
We are talking much bigger stuff here. And that kind stuff was fixed by GDW with quite a bit of errata for both MT and TNE. So they actually fullfill the important part of your request.
A lot of them where the same "QA" problem that Mongoose has. And GDW was told that a lot both on the early internet and in their print magazine(s)
THIS is as mean spirited and argument baiting as anything posted by those that hate Mongoose Traveller. Visit the Mongoose website if you wish, but THAT attitude will do them no favors.
I am very sorry you feel that way. But you could not be more wrong.
Some certainly thought so. But, as I have been trying to point out over the past couple of days, these absolutes do not exist.
That would be true if I thought for a minute it was what was intended.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
That's always the case.
However, I don't think that it's fair to single Mongoose out on this point -- not that you're doing that. Considering the business that they are in, I'd say their stuff has not been unduly plagued with errors. Of course, I think they'd agree that it hasn't been notably free of errors either
And I do think that their customer service is excellent, having been the beneficiary of it.
Like it or not, our hobby is characterized by less perfection than other publishing fields. As someone who has put out a game and made huge efforts to get it perfect, I can attest that errors are effectively impossible to eliminate.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
Very true. Games need candid feedback about flaws (and stuff that they get right). Mindless acceptance and Pavlovian attacks on critics help no one. And I suspect that they impress no one...
When I was a Computer Sci Major in college, they used a figure of 1 error per 4000 lines of coding as the best that could be achieved, so it ain't just game designers.
(As an Architect, I can tell you that error management is a big part of any complex endeavour. The secret is to try and avoid errors that get people killed and, with the possible exception of 'canon wars' :rofl:, Mongoose has not gotten anyone killed. So good work.
)
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Yes but...
...there are ways to present criticism that do not involve insulting people and acting like an arrogant jerk. (I am not saying you have done either of these, but some have).
...after a certain point, when you have made your criticism known, say, three or four times, it's time to give it a rest.
...finally, some "candid feedback" around here has been motivated not by a desire to see the game made better, but by a desire to denigrate said game and those who play it.
No one that I have seen has advocated mindless acceptance of Mongoose Traveller's flaws (and yes, they do exist). I do feel though that supporting the line (which includes, yes, constructive criticism) makes a lot more sense than the egotistical agendas that we have seen in even threads designed to be positive about the game. Fortunatley, these are only a very few people out of those who have commented.
Allen
Matt,
That's exactly what was intended.
Among other things, Doc McCoy and I were discussing Traveller's creative and business history in terms of D&D's creative and business history; who is Gygax, who is Arneson, etc. He kept casting you in a founder's role, i.e Gygax or Arneson, and I objected to that. You analogous D&D "role" is much more on the business side.
While Traveller has had a web presence and web sales of various products for nearly a decade, no one can compare the FFE website to the Mongoose website. One, putting it bluntly, is a hobby, while the other is an actual business. What's more and has been stated in these threads repeatedly, people weren't aware of FFE or its products. The same cannot be said for Mongoose and its products, again the hallmark of an actual business instead of a hobby.
In the mid-80s D&D was dying financially. TSR business practices were nothing of the sort, they were over a million dollars in debt, and the banks were sniffing 'round the door. Gygax's ex-wife was one of the people who turned D&D into a business again. Her actions, apart from her motives, helped return D&D to prominence by removing it from eager hobbyists and turning it over to professional business types. The sales to WOTC and Hasbro were only later events in a trend that she helped begin. She and a few others were the catalyst that saved the game.
Because I see you and Mongoose as potentially being a similar catalyst for Traveller, I cast you in the role of Gygax's ex-wife. I could have said you were Lorraine Williams or some of the other business types, but how many people know of them?
My point did not concern what the ex-wife did to Gygax, either implicitly or explicitly. My point did concern what the ex-wife did for D&D.
You want us to trust you and you want us to believe what you say is the truth. That trust and belief is a two way street. I meant what I say I meant by my comments; you and your license will help return Traveller to the real world of business just as Gygax's ex-wife's actions helped return D&D to the same.
Doc McCoy's original analogy was wrong. You're not akin to Gygax or Arneson. You're more akin to the ex-wife or Williams instead. You're "business" and Traveller needs "business".
Regards,
Bill
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Equating Matt to Lorraine Williams, who drove TSR right into the ground and damn near killed D&D permanently is not going to win you any points.
Allen
Allen,
Egotistical agendas? Let's talk about egotistical agendas...
In the thread Who Play MGT And Loves It I myself have made six posts stating specifically what I like about MgT. In the same thread, you have made no posts that said anything specific about MgT.
You have made four posts in that thread, however, in which you whine, mewl, bitch, and complain about other people whining, mewling, bitching, and complaining. You also remarked on threadcrapping by posting in a thread about MgT's good points without actually mentioning any of MgT's good points. Isn't that threadcrapping too?
You say want good informative posts, yet you don't actually post any yourself.
So, what's your agenda then?
Regards,
Bill
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Allen,
Williams treated D&D as a business, not as a hobby. That her successful attempts to put D&D on a sound business footing are viewed by gamers as a failure are beside the point. She evetually had to sell TSR after experiencing the same mid-90s distributor-induced cash flow pinch that closed GDW.
She was brought in to manage TSR and found it to be essentially a sandbox where a bunch of hobbyists puttered about pursuing personal agendas and creating products of varying quality while driving the company over one million dollars in the hole. Someone had to grab the "Boys' Club" by the neck and shake it out. She did what needed to be done and was defiled for doing it.
Prior to her arrival, TSR had already killed D&D as a business, but were too busy playing with the corpse to notice. In her hands, TSR went from a bankrupt joke to profitable business stable enough for other business people to view it as a potential investment rather than a club full of creepy hobbyists.
If she allegedly disdained gamers, she was only returning the favor. She was in the business to earn a living and that's the only reason anyone needs to be in business.
She saved D&D. She might not have saved it in a manner that you approve, but the decisions were made by her, not by you, and her decisions worked.
Regards,
Bill
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captainjack
SOC-13
So how was the Steam & the Sox ?
Cap'n
The Sox that night pulled it out in the eighth and ninth innings after playing like dopes for most of the game. If I were an Angels fans I'd have gnashed my teeth.
Both Steams were great. I could feel that first sip go all the way down, something I just love in a beer. The shot after Pap closed the game was delightful too.
We had a trifecta of sorts here in New England last night and not a good trifecta at that. The Sox in a day game lost in 12 innings. Ortiz stranded 12 base runners tying a team record. The Bruins went into overtime in the final game of the conference semis and lost to a team they had beaten all year during the regular season. The Celtics lost, although game seven remains, in a game where both teams played as if they'd cloned me a dozen times and sent the results out onto the court. It was a very, very ugly game to end a very, very ugly day.
The two Steams helped a great deal though!
Regards,
Bill
