Wish list?

[aramis]

I still want to see, in essence, eratta free, thoroughly playtested and proofread, rules, preferably with a fully integgrated design sequence and combat system, and a single unified skill methodology.

And either advanced CG for ALL or NONE of the core carreers.

And I like a separated Pen/atten/Damage mechanic (like MT's).

 

[Spinward Scout]

I'd like to see a consolidated Traveller. I've been scanning in everything I could find for making a Fusion Gun sheet for one of my players. I scanned in the references I could find in CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, and T20 and consolidated all of the information, scratching all duplicates and leaving me with a document that has only the distilled info. There were things in one version that weren't in another. I worked it all together to make a logical, synthesised whole. It worked out great. I see the need for doing the same with Anagathics, Psionics, and a couple of others. I think this is my biggest wish for T5 - to have a consolidated version of Traveller...

Later,

Scout

 

[Tanuki]

Originally posted by Dameon Toth Detached Scout:
I'd like to see a consolidated Traveller. I've been scanning in everything I could find for making a Fusion Gun sheet for one of my players. I scanned in the references I could find in CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT, and T20 and consolidated all of the information, scratching all duplicates and leaving me with a document that has only the distilled info. There were things in one version that weren't in another. I worked it all together to make a logical, synthesised whole. It worked out great. I see the need for doing the same with Anagathics, Psionics, and a couple of others. I think this is my biggest wish for T5 - to have a consolidated version of Traveller...

See Peter's Traveller Consolidated Equipment List at http://www.sff.net/people/kitsune/traveller/peter/vehicles.html for a start. I just posted version 0.71 for him.

 

[robject]

My opinions. Very opinionated. Grain of salt, please.

Many of your wishes seem to be in Marc's plans. The main thing that keeps coming back is the need for clear and concise rules summaries or flowcharts, and thorough playtest and error correction before publication.

Playtested?

Well that's where we come in. That's why Marc is letting us try out the playtest files... it's also why he's not working on T5 as hard as he might: not very many playtesters have mailed their suggestions regarding his material.

Chargen

The playtest material currently out there appears to include a sampling of several ways of summarizing chargen; I have found that some of the pages work for me, and some don't. That's part of playtesting, in that we tell Marc the parts we don't like, why, and what's better.

That said, if the chargen system itself is anything like the rest of the rules (and it would make sense that the whole book would use the same method if not the same content), then the book will be quite easy to use. Chargen gives full rules for all character classes, while also adding the "Life Pursuits" rule to turn chargen into a 2D matrix of career + specialty(-ies). Thus there are not 10 character types, but rather a matrix of 10 * N (where N is however many skills one might want to specialize in) character types. Add to that the "Quick Chargen" rules, where one can build the desired character in 5 minutes, and it looks like chargen is as flexible as it's going to get.

Alien Chargen!

But I'd be wrong, because Marc has mentioned that T5 will have a full-fledged alien chargen system as well, perhaps bridging the gap between chargen and the animal-building rules from CT.

Integrated Task System

And as far as the Task System goes, Marc has also mentioned in the playest docs that combat is integrated fully (and seamlessly, I suppose) with the TS. I think this means the "combat" sections of the book will be very small and simply outline rules (perhaps with a flowchart?) rather than actions. This probably goes for space combat, too. In fact, the Task System probably will contain all elements needed for abstract as well as detailed personal and space combat, and might once and for all erase the differences between the two. Perhaps. Maybe.

Moore's Law

As for Moore's Law, T5 will either ignore computers entirely, or treat it as a quaint mid-TL anachronism, or embrace and refine the T4 rules, which did take Moore's Law into account. Or he might do like T4 did for starships and scrap the computer requirement.

Hardcover

Also, I imagine T5 could be published like The Traveller Book and T4: a hardcover and a softcover.

Art

As far as art goes, if he picks and chooses from the best of Traveller's art, he can't go too far wrong.

Disclaimer

My opinions. Very opinionated. Grain of salt, please.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Thanks Tanuki! Downloaded and saved last night. It's a keeper!

Scout

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by robject:

Well that's where we come in. That's why Marc is letting us try out the playtest files... it's also why he's not working on T5 as hard as he might: not very many playtesters have mailed their suggestions regarding his material.

Well I've downloaded what's currently out there at the Traveller5 site however I've heard for a *long* time (over a year likely over two now) that these playtest files aren't the latest version. If Marc's already moved beyond these and changed substantial portions of the rules <shrug> I wonder how much good it would do to comment on things he's already changed or gotten rid of?

If there are updated playtest files, which evidently some have access to I really think it would be helpful if those were made available for wider playtest and comment.

Basically I want to help as T5 looks interesting but don't want to waste my time and far more importantly Marc Miller's time.

Casey

 

[Jame]

I'll go with Gaming Glen and ask for a revised tech level chart. Make us the border between 7 and 8. Maybe make Jump Drives a tl10 thing.

Also give Marines an automatic rifle-1 skill along with the cutlass skill.

 

[robject]

Yeah, good point Casey. I hadn't heard about there being a revised playtest ruleset in existence. I wonder who's best to ask (Marc?)?

 

[robject]

Casey,

I have word from Mr. Miller that the playtest update is still in-process; the material at traveller5.com is current.

Rob

 

[clementk]

Originally posted by robject:
Casey,

I have word from Mr. Miller that the playtest update is still in-process; the material at traveller5.com is current.

Rob

Good. I stand corrected.

Casey (goes to look over printouts)

 

[ACK!!]

I started out with and kind of fell in love with the MT system but hated the Rebellion.

The Hard Times post-apocalyptic thing got on my nerves.

TNE I did not like.

Will not go into it but I did not like it all, over-complicated IMHO. Lost all my books and stuff a long, long time ago.

So, I get the LBB re-prints. I play for awhile in a group of Traveller old-timers and then about 2 years later I find a group of people that want to play on-line and I have the books so I am the referee.

Ok, what did I have a problem with or added to Classic Traveller?

Simple to follow tasks system like Digest Task System.

Good straightforward Hits and Wounding system kind of like MT.

Traveller Central has a quick Aiming and location system.

Good Starship generation and Combat System that is simple and easy to use. I hear a couple of different system praised over another here.

Andy Slack's experience system is still the best I have seen so far. 1 - 3 experience points a game and get 8 you can progress one skill level. I always add it has to be a skill you used across those adventures. Good stuff.

No dying in character generation. BTW, I know that has been around since the MT days.

Notice, a theme coming here .. simple but enough detail for fleshing out things.

Lots of weapons and equipment please!! The classic books were light even by the early rpg days standards.

Some sample deckplans with a quick starship supplement quickly following release of main books.

Lots of pictures. More pictures everywhere all over the place and I mean it. It was one of the few things about TNE I really liked. (Ok, TNE fans do not stone me IMHO and all that.)

Re-working of canon history timelines and TL stuff for modern times.

At least an acknowledgement of some new technologies and explanations for why they exist or not.

Tweak of computer rules to reflect new tech trends which kind of goes with the above point but it is important enough to go into all by itself.

Rules and careers for non-human characters.
Please..

Bring back the LBB's!! Light, inexpensive and find someone, somewhere, somehow to get them distributed all over the place. Especially the bookstore rpg sections.

I know that part is way tough probably impossible.

Basically, a fleshing out and minor tweaking of CT and MT merged systems.

That is it. I want an updated CT with lots of the MT style rules and all those ends and pieces from different sections of Trav canon brought together in one list of Main books.

For someone who has NOT played Traveller as much as others here I really sound like an old fart.

 

[robject]

Funny, but yesterday I, too, was actually thinking how nice the LBBs were. Cheap to pick up, compact to carry around, and just had the facts without flashy extras. Now that's getting the most bang for your buck!

 

[robject]

I think we need to create a poll out of all the options listed so far and see how the items fall out, popularly speaking!

 

[robject]

Well, I can't post a poll here, but I can post them at Traveller5.com, under "Wish List". So come on over and vote!

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by robject:
Well, I can't post a poll here, but I can post them at Traveller5.com, under "Wish List". So come on over and vote!

I might just do that but I also might end up ticking some people off really quick.

Why?

I have looked over the stuff already posted there on traveller5.com.

It is 46 different pages just for the skills and tasks. Geez. Even with the skill descriptions that is a bit much. Not much left open to the imagination when it is all charted out.

I hear the old-timers talk about how Traveller made you use your imagination. That is funny. Many of the maligned story-telling style RPG systems like the White Wolf stuff for example was like that. Lots of background and story ideas. Very few hard rules. We played a loose Magic campaign and a couple of one-off vampire hunter adventures off the rules and there is one thing we realized right off the bat.

The GMs in those games were forced to do what the best traveller referees and the best D&D DMs do already. They don't roll through a laundry list of charts to figure out what happened. They make that stuff up. Because that puts the story at the center. They roll a couple of times and tell you what they want to happen to help tell the story.

Maybe Combat was not detailed enough in CT but MT was. Maybe experience rules were not there but in MT and Andy Slack and others came up with ideas.

Why do we have to make the wheel octagonal for visual impact? Why does everything have to be so complex?

Sure, I have seen lots of game systems. I have my list of CT house rules. That is why I have suggestions.

Still I am afraid I see Traveller5 going into the overally complex realm of what I disliked about TNE.

Tying life pursuits to experience and stuff is interesting but its also an example of why Traveller5 scares me.

Life pursuits are the stuff we role-play anyway. Use a skill, get trained in a skill, well ... you got the skill. How you play the character tells the world if its a hobby or a life pursuit.

If you are an imaginative player why the hell do have to fill out a form telling the rest of the world what they will all find out after one game with your character -- what his life pursuit is.

My Vargr was a joking humorous puppy with a life-long desire for mind-numbing speed. Any chance he got to pilot or drive a grav vehicle he was all for it. I did not need a form to tell everyone his life pursuit was to be a good pilot and to survive all the numbnut profitless adventures the damn humans kept dragging him along on.

How am I wrong?

Please tell me how this system preserves the elegant simplicity of CT and the MT systems?

I am not looking to get flamed I swear to the gods.

I want to be wrong about this.

 

[Captain Zoom]

Am I not looking to get flamed I swear to the gods.

Whooooshhhh! You've been flamed.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Captain Zoom:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Am I not looking to get flamed I swear to the gods.

Whooooshhhh! You've been flamed. </font>[/QUOTE]Post edited thanks!

 

[ACK!!]

Re-edit of my wish list in a format from I saw on traveller5's boards. These comments have already been posted there so I am cross-posting.

A. Core

1. General
a. Red Stripe Traveller with Cover design a la Lindsey prefer LBBs broken down MT-style. Every LBB has a picture beside the text in upper right-hand corner but style is preserved.
i. Player
ii. Referee
iii. Library
b. Grounded in CT
c. Digest Group Task System -- first saw in MT and blew me away after years of D&D
d. More stuff equipment and vehicles and new inventive but hard science based weapons.
e. Lots and lots and lots and lots of good art. (I like Bryan Gibson's stuff myself.)

2. Chargen
a. CT/MT chargen
b. Scientist rules for higher ed (I also heard T4 was good for chargen)
c. quick chargen rules like Andy Slack's House rules or
d. T5 -- Marc's quick gen rules
e. T4 Psionics
f. Andy Slack's House Rules on Experience (heard T4 was good on this)
g. Approved alien types for PC play detailed and chargen outlined for thoses races
h. Computer program for chargen with ability to export into nice html like TravGen or mtcg with a save option

3. Combat
a. A simplified MT/Striker/AHL system of pen/atten versus armor combat system.
b. MT's ground/starship encounter rules/tables?
c. Everything is a task from Surprise resolution to initiative and initiative is individual not side based.
d. A damage system based on attributes but that is easy to follow (Maybe MT?)

4. Starships
a. Book 2 and 5 merged with some MT for vehicle/starship construction.
b. Better computer rules based on some thinking about Moore's Law.
c. Software program like Highguard type app for Starship design of stats.
d. Deckplans for Scout and Free Trader (muster-out benefits)?

5. Worlds
a. CT-esque world gen
b. Animal encounter
c. T4's trade rules (just from what I have heard)
d. CT-esque Animal creation
e. CT-esque simplified System gen

6. Adventures
a. EPIC scenario system
b. MT technology chart (but updated please)
c. Library data in sections: Combat, Vehicles, Imperial
d. Sample system: map, detail
e. One solo adventure on this world
f. One multi adventure in this system

I don't like the idea of a lot of Advanced Rules. Supplements IMO should supplement game play not be essential for anything beyond basic play.

B. Supplements

1. 50 EPICs
Small scenarios designed to spur creative play like 76 Patrons.

2. 101 Vehicles
More stuff and less focus on low tech ages (DGP devoted too much space to the low tech stuff IMO)

3. Milleu whatever
Full detailing of sector of space with details on major planets and systems
Web contest for a new landgrab based on milleu with a cool prize

4. Ironmongery
Book with lots of weapons and armor types

5, Central Supply Catalog
Got have more stuff background info on futuristic clothes and such would be really nice

6. Fire Fushion and Steel
Wide TL range but focus on the future pleeeeeze!

7. 50 Starships
Yes, I mean it. Tech level stuff on fifty different types of ships with deckplans and drawings for some.

 

[savage]

I don't like the idea of a lot of Advanced Rules. Supplements IMO should supplement game play not be essential for anything beyond basic play.

ACK

New refs/players need a place to start without excessive complication. The basic book, HG combination worked.

I'd say you have some great points ACK.
but
- I'd add the tier'd system for jumps (up to jump 36. I think there was a home rule on someones site for it).

- I did a multi-spinal mount system for ships capital vessels. Ships over 1million tons (so they're not useless) need something like this.
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/savage/1WorldOrder/Multi-Spinal_Mount_HR.html

- Advantages and Disadvantages are good character generation tools not Feats.
- No experience. Traveller is 0 progression! If they want more skills they can study and train or actively use the skill.

- The TNE starship selection system is nice and flexible.

Savage

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by Savage:
ACK

New refs/players need a place to start without excessive complication. The basic book, HG combination worked.

That is why so many systems include a System-lite pdf for just that sort of thing. I don't want to have to search out 8 different supplements or 4 different reprint books to play a game in "advanced" mode.

As a bridge, I guess I could be less of hard ass on the issue and say that one advanced version of the core rules would not drive me nuts. I still prefer supplements like Central Supply Catalog, Traders and Gunboats and 76 Patrons to ones that modify the core rules.

However, we do not have to agree on this. In the end, Marc Miller will do as he likes.

Originally posted by Savage:

I'd say you have some great points ACK.
but
- I'd add the tier'd system for jumps (up to jump 36. I think there was a home rule on someones site for it).

- I did a multi-spinal mount system for ships capital vessels. Ships over 1million tons (so they're not useless) need something like this.
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/savage/1WorldOrder/Multi-Spinal_Mount_HR.html

- Advantages and Disadvantages are good character generation tools not Feats.

It may smack canon but multi-tiered jumps or multi-weapons on spines never really bothered me. After all, Travel in the known universe is kind of a slow tedious pain in the ass.

It is a testement to intelligent sophont achievement that they all did not bore of the idea of jumping, refueling and waiting a week and repairing and then jumping out again all to go a couple of parsec at a time crawling over months of travel to their destination.

I would not mind if there was some canon update to using melee weapons in the far future. If swords are going to be anything more than ceremonial then there has to be a way to update them without going instantly munchkin.

Never liked the ideas of Advantages, and Disadvantages. I guess it forces the schmuck who always tries to bring in super-perfect guy into every game he plays into role-playing but I always felt that was part of forging a character and ingraining his personality. But that is just me and I have enjoyed a number of systems that had these features so it would not put me off.

Originally posted by Savage:

- No experience. Traveller is 0 progression! If they want more skills they can study and train or actively use the skill.

- The TNE starship selection system is nice and flexible.

Savage

No experience and progression!! Oh god, no, that will not do. Slow steady fun progression. 1-3 points per game and you get 8 and then you can up a skill or something similiar. No random nonsense.

Are there examples of RPGs with no progression that do well?

Do not remember from my brief frustration with the TNE system about starship selection. What was it like?

I know we disagree but like I said that is alright.

What is your rule and mileu wishlist Savage?