X-boat stops

[kaladorn]

A compelling argument, and well reasoned.

I think you make a good point on the lower threshold, though admitting the upper threshold (longer time between flights) is possible for some regions.

I guess key data can be sent out on an emergency basis....

 

[Whipsnade]

kaladorn wrote:

"A compelling argument, and well reasoned."


Mr. Barclay,

Thank you sir!

"I think you make a good point on the lower threshold, though admitting the upper threshold (longer time between flights) is possible for some regions."

Most certainly. I can't even explain why Ianic has a x-boat route, let alone why it would be recieving one x-boar every standard day. Cut the flights back to weekly and it helps a little.

Your example of Nexine is another. Why would it have daily flights to Pallique and Kataluru? There's no real reason, although GT:Humaniti (a book I found oddly disappointing) does place an Imperial human geneering project(1) there. Even with that project chugging along, a few flights a week seems more reasonable.

The x-boat system is randomly generated so there is no logical reason for any of the routes, no hub and spoke systems for instance. However, I think we can still envision 'trunk' lines within it. The Marches seems to have ONE x-boat link to the Deneb Sector. (I'm not counting the Junidy-Tower-Nasemin line as it doesn't connect to anywhere else in the Marches.) This sole line enters via Mora; although Trin may have one, I just don't know or can't remember. IMHO, the x-boat routes leading from Mora to Rhylanor, Lanth-Regina, Trin, Lunion-Glisten, and out to Five Sisters via Biter(!) will see daily arrivals and departures as they are trunk lines. Everything else will have less traffic. This does mean that even inconsequnetial systems along those trunk lines will get daily 'boats while more important systems off the trunk lines will not. YMM and most certainly should V.

"I guess key data can be sent out on an emergency basis.... "

Yes, most certainly. We've the low profile jump6 Imperiallines couriers, a jump6 IISS/IN courier from Supplement 7(?) and GT:FI, and a jump4 Suleiman is child's play to build at TL14 via HG2. Toss in megacorp interests and you'll have plenty of non x-boat comm choices.


Sincerely,
Larsen

1 - Why do nearly all 57th Century geneering projects have Aquaman in mind? Yes, there are the Jonkareen(sic), but it seems all the others are bent on creating mermen.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
There's no real reason, although GT:Humaniti (a book I found oddly disappointing) does place an Imperial human geneering project(1) there. Even with that project chugging along, a few flights a week seems more reasonable.

GT:Humaniti did not "create" the Nexies. They were first mentioned way back in CT Supplement 3. The Kargol were a GT invention. Unfortunately, the Nexies were not.

While I do feel some disappointment in GT:Humaniti, as I feel they missed some more important races, the writeups of the Darrians, Floriani, and Geonee alone were worth the effort of getting it. (I just wish the artwork would have actually matched the text descriptions of the races!)

The Marches seems to have ONE x-boat link to the Deneb Sector. (I'm not counting the Junidy-Tower-Nasemin line as it doesn't connect to anywhere else in the Marches.) This sole line enters via Mora; although Trin may have one, I just don't know or can't remember.

Looking at my MT map of the Spinward Marches, I see connections to Deneb from Junidy, Natoko, Margesi [1], and Mora. Supplement 3 adds one from Chamois.

[1] How many duplicate names are in the Spinward Marches? I know of three: Aramis (3110/2540), Margesi (1020/3212), and Natoko (2620/3209). Not counting Tenalphi(1826) and Tenelphi(3040), Dinom(1811) and Dinomn(1912), Dallia(1435) and Callia(1836), and Quar(0808) and Quare(0915). I am sure I missed some ...

 

[Whipsnade]

daryen wrote:

"GT:Humaniti did not "create" the Nexies. They were first mentioned way back in CT Supplement 3. The Kargol were a GT invention. Unfortunately, the Nexies were not."


Daryen,

Ah! Thanks for the information! Still, too many Aquamen swimming about for my liking!

"While I do feel some disappointment in GT:Humaniti, as I feel they missed some more important races, the writeups of the Darrians, Floriani, and Geonee alone were worth the effort of getting it."

Yes those three were worth the price of admission. Sadly, their entries constantly remind me of how good the others could have been. Leaving the Seurrat out; the builders of an STL empire using generation ships and purportedly fine ecological engineers, was troubling.

"(I just wish the artwork would have actually matched the text descriptions of the races!)"

I understand that the position of art director at SJGames went vacant at an inopportune time. LKW had to fill the breach and the art was scraped up in a last ditch effort to meet an already greatly delayed shipping date. I would have posted samples of the proposed art and then held the book until some real art was available. Anyone squawking about the delay would be told that they could have the book now with the wretched art being shown or they could wait a few more months and get it with art that didn't actually suck. Some folks still would have squawked, but our first look at so many HMRs didn't deserve artwork of such godawful putridness.

"Looking at my MT map of the Spinward Marches, I see connections to Deneb from Junidy, Natoko, Margesi [1], and Mora. Supplement 3 adds one from Chamois."

Very good to know. Does MT show another link to the Trojan Reach beyond the one in Glisten? Trin perhaps? Or one from Deneb cutting the corner so to speak?

"[1] How many duplicate names are in the Spinward Marches?"

LKW has a funny in retrospect story regarding those duplicate names. Some 'fan' braced him at a 'con and delivered a harangue about Aramis (IIRC) being all wrong. When LKW pointed that there were 2 Aramis systems, the fellow barely stopped for breath and kept on whingeing. Go figure...


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
"Looking at my MT map of the Spinward Marches, I see connections to Deneb from Junidy, Natoko, Margesi [1], and Mora. Supplement 3 adds one from Chamois."

Very good to know. Does MT show another link to the Trojan Reach beyond the one in Glisten? Trin perhaps? Or one from Deneb cutting the corner so to speak?

Both the map and Supplement 3 show one link going straight rimward from Romar/Romor (2140). It connects to Cyan (TR 2102).

The map of the Trojan Reaches in TD20 (my only TD) shows another link going into the Spinward Marches from Bleak (TR 2902). Going by its "trajectory", it would connect to Dodds (2739), but no Spinward Marches map I have ever seen shows that link.

Speaking of the Trojan Reaches, did you know that the Trojan Reaches has a greater population than the Spinward Marches? By a lot.

In fact, three worlds from the Reaches (specifically Strend (TR 0505), Hreahrya (TR 0229), and Iriaiw (TR 1236)) have a total population that is two-thirds as large as the rest of the Trojan Reaches and the Spinward Marches combined!

Strend, if it ever bothered to improve its "B" starport, could probably conquer both subsectors by itself.

Gotta love DGP!

 

[kaladorn]

And they accuse some of the people at Judges Guild of producing dodgy sectors...

I myself haven't bought GT:Humaniti (I have most of the original materials that describe human sub races...). Sounds like it is kind of a 'if you can get it cheap' proposition, yes?

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:

Daryen,

Ah! Thanks for the information! Still, too many Aquamen swimming about for my liking!

Sincerely,
Larsen

Evening (somewhere, I'm pretty sure ) sophonts,

Hello especially to you Larsen. On that little bit of bother I can imagine that being as we evolved from water and most water has sufficient O2 to support life with just a little gill trick the whole merfolk thing is probably the easiest and earliest (TL wise) gene toying we would do. I do agree though there is lots of room for other adaptations.

 

[Whipsnade]

kaladorn wrote:

"And they accuse some of the people at Judges Guild of producing dodgy sectors... "


Mr. Barclay,

Like Loren Wiseman pointed out, they never quit their day jobs. I can understand subcontracting the work out; GDW was never very large and the amount of product they produced over the years was staggering, but why DGP wasn't kept on a tighter leash is anyone's guess. IMHO, DGP is like the little girl with the little curl; when they were good, they were very, very good and when they were bad, they were horrid.

"I myself haven't bought GT:Humaniti (I have most of the original materials that describe human sub races...). Sounds like it is kind of a 'if you can get it cheap' proposition, yes?"

Definitely. I got it as a gift, otherwise I'd be kicking over the price. Most of the MHRs described blend together; they're nearly all honorable warriors or some such thing. MHRs folks were interested in; i.e. Seurrat, were left out. The art is bad to the point of incredulity. The maps are near-useless, grey tone horrors that require eye watering effort to comprehend or read; "Gee, is that grey-swamp or grey-ocean or grey-savanna or just freakin' GREY!!!"

GT:Humaniti is definitely a bargain bin purchase, the first truly bad GT product I've seen (I haven't yet seen them all).

I find it interesting that the few MHRs that do stand out; Darrian, Floriani, Geonee, have all been described in earlier Traveller products! Darrian's had a CT Alien Module of their own, the Geonee are from MT and DGP's TD magazine, and (IIRC) the two species nature of the Floriani (although touched upon by DGP) really came to light in a relatively recent JTAS article. So the only good bits in GT:Humaniti were written sometime before by somebody else! Pretty damn sad, IMEHO.

Still, we do get a look at everyone's homeworlds and they are plenty of racial templates. The Sylean philosophy/religion is intriguing, but not enough to justify the rest of the book. I disliked the Sylean language bits, it didn't 'feel' like any language I've ever read about or heard. All it amounted to was a string of capitalized single syllable nuggets; Mer Ren Thyl Len, a cultural reservation region, or Maar Ki Zon, the Sylean religion. What's next, Sha Na Na and Sis Boom Bah?


Sincerely,
Larsen

P.S. You must see the maps to truly appreciate their wretchedness.

 

[Whipsnade]

far-trader wrote:

"Hello especially to you Larsen. On that little bit of bother I can imagine that being as we evolved from water and most water has sufficient O2 to support life with just a little gill trick the whole merfolk thing is probably the easiest and earliest (TL wise) gene toying we would do. I do agree though there is lots of room for other adaptations."


Dan,

That's as good a reason as any and one I heartily agree with. I was just squawking over the numbers of 'Aquaman' HMRs in canon and not even bothering to consider why. Call it an illogical gripe on my part!

GT:Humaniti had 42 (or 46?) HMR to choose from when compiling the book. Out of 16 selections, 2 are aquatic and there really isn't much different between them. One was modified by the Ancients and the other by the 3I, but they're pretty much the same thing on different homeworlds. They could have dropped one and tried their hand with another HMR, IMHO.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Definitely. I got it as a gift, otherwise I'd be kicking over the price. Most of the MHRs described blend together; they're nearly all honorable warriors or some such thing. MHRs folks were interested in; i.e. Seurrat, were left out. The art is bad to the point of incredulity. The maps are near-useless, grey tone horrors that require eye watering effort to comprehend or read; "Gee, is that grey-swamp or grey-ocean or grey-savanna or just freakin' GREY!!!"

While I completely agree on Larsen's complaints about the artwork and the maps, my assessment is not quite as harsh. While the price is a bit steep considering how much of the material seems pointless, I am still not kicking myself, and I did buy it.

I really liked the following writeups: Darrian, Dynchia, Floriani, Geonee, Iltharans, and Luriani. The Darrian writeup is actually (IMO) better than AM8. The Floriani are well described for the first time. The others all have well thought out and are more than just "humans with a gimmick".

The Acheron, Irhadre, and Otrai are all variations on the same theme (humans that can live in nasty atmospheres and become nasty themselves as a result). One would have been OK, but all three is a bit much. (None of them, IMO, are much more than "gimmicks", however.)

The The Anserin, Azhanti, Dynchia, and Iltharans are all "warrior races", but the first two just don't have anything really distinctive about them, other than being "warrior races". The second two at least have some fundamentally interesting features about them.

I just don't see the real interest of the Kargol (cat-men), Syleans (???), and Yileans (blue-skinned racist dog-haters). While the Nexine are different from the Luriani (fully aquatic instead of just amphibious), they just don't have enough meat in the story to generate interest (IMO).

So, six out of fifteen may sound bad, but those six are very well done. And $24 for six well written MHR isn't too bad. (Heck, I paid $32 for four races - twice!) If you do buy it, however, be sure to never look at the illos for the Dynchia and Kargol.

Finally, I do have one question: Where is it written in stone that humans in low gravity must be skinny bean-poles. Can't low gravity humans end up short?

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
...I'd still like to see that table from the original LBB #3 that showed what the rolls were to place one.

Here you go - this was posted to the TML recently, where I snipped it from. Note that it's not actually for xboat network stops, but rather for "space lanes" in general.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Per CT Book 3 Worlds and Adventures p 2 (1st edition):

The worlds of a subsector are connected by the charted
space lanes, which mark the regular routes travelled by
commercial starships. While it is possible for starships to
travel without regard to the lanes charted, individuals who
do not own a starship are generally restricted to
commercial travel on starships which ply to routes which
are mapped.

For each world, note the starport type for it and its
neighbors. Consult the jump routes table, throwing one die.

World          Jump Distance
Pair   Jump-1   Jump-2   Jump-3   Jump-4

A-A      1+       2+       4+       5+
A-B      1+       3+       4+       5+
A-C      1+       4+       6+       --
A-D      1+       5+       --       --
A-E      2+       --       --       --
B-B      1+       3+       4+       6+
B-C      2+       4+       6+       --
B-D      3+       6+       --       --
B-E      4+       --       --       --
C-C      3+       6+       --       --
C-D      4+       --       --       --
C-E      4+       --       --       --
D-D      4+       --       --       --
D-E      5+       --       --       --
E-E      6+       --       --       --

If the die roll is equal to, or greater than the number, a
space lane exists. Draw a line connecting the two worlds on
the map. Each specific pair of worlds should be examined
for jump routes only once.</pre>[/QUOTE]Not sure why they took it out of later editions; maybe it was lame, or they needed the space, or both.

As far as the jump routes appearing utterly haphazard, inefficient, and silly, there is mention in eg Supp 3 regarding new xboat stops being considered/negotiated for one world or another. The xboat network should probably be considered not a static entity but rather an evolving system with all kinds of historical decisions retained despite their obtuseness, for political, economic or other reasons. At least, that's how I think of the xboat network.

 

[kaladorn]

Merci Buckets pour la table.

It seems likely that if this is to track 'spacelanes' that stuff in GT:Far Trader or the like is meant to supplant it as it calculates trade route data based on economic criteria.

But this is a worthwhile thing to have a copy of too. Merci!

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Merci Buckets pour la table.

It seems likely that if this is to track 'spacelanes' that stuff in GT:Far Trader or the like is meant to supplant it as it calculates trade route data based on economic criteria.

But this is a worthwhile thing to have a copy of too. Merci!

Yes, it's what Bloo et al attempted to "reality Rule" in GTFT; it generates the chances of a regular route for merchant and/or passenger shipping, not exboat routes per se.

in the computer forum, the issue has come up of how to generate XBoat routes. I always used
Connect A-ports, using B or even C ports, if needed, to the capitals. routes under J3 use Type S, not Type X.