Yeah, there's an app for that...

[iron warrior]

This isn't a specific bit of traveller gear but rather just a general question about gear in traveller as a whole, so I hope it belongs here.

Basically, at the rate modern tech advances, how do you keep tech in your traveller games ahead of it? I mean, when traveller was first written cell phones were high tech, long off science fiction of the far future. It took a decade of more to even get. the old fashioned "brick" mobile phone that is such a tech joke today.

The internet wasn't even science fiction when traveller was written in the 70's, no one really saw that one coming.

I was just curious how people keep traveller tech ahead of what we have today. I know some people like to laugh at "trekkies" because the communicator seems so p[rimitive compared to a cell phone, but then again a communicator could directly contact something in orbit of a planet, whereas most modern cell phones don't work without a tower within what? 5 miles?

Likewise, "flash mobs" and the cell phone revolt in egypt now, I wonder how to keep a consistent tech level in traveeller that's still ahead of what we have now but doesn't overwhelm the traveller setting. Discuss?

One thing I could see would be the kind of apps you could download to your phone/computer/god knows what else. Maybe one that let you focus on a hiver with your camera and translate it's gestures into language in case he doesn't have a translator computer handy, of an EMF generator to block annoying zhoad mindreaders, or a detector to let you know if a zhoad is trying to use psi on you.

Also, I wonder if your phone, or, hell, your watch, might have things like atmospheric analysis running in real time, along with alerts for radiation, toxins, dropping pressure, etc.

 

[sabredog]

More or less I gave up trying to keep Traveller in synch with today's reality. I keep it "Traveller" by keeping it kind of clunky and "70's Tomorrow is Today".

There was a time when I was trying to keep Traveller updated, but I just ended up ruining the game by getting bogged down in the "correctness" of it all, and the game's peculiar retro-space opera feel (room-sized mainframes on ships, slugthrowers, psionics, lots of aliens instead of lots of dead rocks in space, clunky starships that don't go swoosh with magic warp drives...) has a certain internal logic and flavor that can be easily lost by worrying too much if everything is constantly being reworked. I mean, just look at computers: you would have to completely rework all the computer rules in the game just to accommodate the changes in the 80's lt alone the last 5 years. Weaponry? My players would skin me alive if I tried to redo the combat and weapons info again.

When I was younger, and it was more about the gearheading and newness of RPG-ing I wouldn't hesitate to sweat over those things, but nowadays (for a long time, now actually) I emphasis the story and character development in relation to the events of my universe instead of what the phone the players use does exactly. Its a phone, it does what most people expect one to do, just with more chrome and Raymond Loewy-styling. I think it was either Asimov or Clarke that said the best thing for a scifi author to do when describing gadgets is to just have to do what it's supposed to and not worry so much about the details - the reader (player) will fill those in.

As for some of your thoughts: flash mobs are in the Niven story "Flash Crowd" written in 1973. It involves teleporters and people 'porting in to see a story happening live on TV. So that's a close miss, or near hit.

And as for the apps: as I said above - if its reasonable to have it I don't sweat it. If a player in-game where to say to me 10 years ago that he was using an app on his personal comp/commo widget to check the atmo levels and local news I'd have probably told him he'd need something else to do that....nowadays I say OK and give him the info. Makes it smoother.

 

[Icosahedron]

Yeah, I agree with Sabredog. Give em the comm, don't list 3000 things it can do, just wait for a player to ask 'can it do this?' then make up your mind and make a note of it. Less Ref stress.

 

[Frankymole]

The internet wasn't even science fiction when traveller was written in the 70's, no one really saw that one coming.

Although the 1981 LBB's refer to Library terminals hooked up to a "planet-wide information net"...

Hand computers seem fairly iPad-ish.

DGP had a go at updating comms with comm-dots, a bit less cumberson than handheld mobile/cellphones (which are really nothing more than small radios in a sense).

Let's not forget that modern cellphones rely on satellites and other network infrastructure, as do GPS navigation aids (etcetera) - these networks may simply not exist around TL7 or less worlds or even hi-tech, low pop (small economy) ones. Portable radio range for the best sets in the CT rules was 500 miles - e.g. maybe even a bit of a stretch to a ship in geostationary orbit, certainly useless for continental range comms if no orbiting ship and no commo-satellites exist. And you can't just show up now with a new cellphone/laptop and use it without a contract to a service provider!

Re-reading the 1977/81 LBBs (CT) recently I was struck by how little of it was really dated. We still use slug-throwers at TL8/9 here anyway - kinetic force really is economical. The ships' computers make sense if you consider them as being dispersed throughout the ship as electronic systems, other 'computers' like damage control, crew entertainment, sickbay diagnostic machines etc.

 

[rancke]

Basically, at the rate modern tech advances, how do you keep tech in your traveller games ahead of it? I mean, when traveller was first written cell phones were high tech, long off science fiction of the far future. It took a decade of more to even get. the old fashioned "brick" mobile phone that is such a tech joke today.

I assume that technological development in the Traveller universe diverged from that of the real world some time around the late seventies. A lot of the effort that went into computer development here went into space travel there. So some of what we have on our Earth today is actually TL8 or maybe even 9. Contrariwise, not everything we have on Earth today is TL8 just because we're in the 3rd Millenium.

The internet wasn't even science fiction when traveller was written in the 70's, no one really saw that one coming.

The ComWeb in James H. Schmitz' Federation of the Hub stories is a pretty good match, and they are from the mid-sixties to the mid-seventies.


Hans

 

[Icosahedron]

Let's not forget that modern cellphones rely on satellites and other network infrastructure, as do GPS navigation aids (etcetera) - these networks may simply not exist around TL7 or less worlds or even hi-tech, low pop (small economy) ones. Portable radio range for the best sets in the CT rules was 500 miles - e.g. maybe even a bit of a stretch to a ship in geostationary orbit, certainly useless for continental range comms if no orbiting ship and no commo-satellites exist. And you can't just show up now with a new cellphone/laptop and use it without a contract to a service provider!

IMTU I recognise that standard 'comms' work on a satellite system, but I also recognise how easily satellites can be bought from a higher TL neighbour and seeded in orbit, along with a network of ground-based relays. Contracts and service-providers are, of course capitalist political constructs and different government types may not adhere to these systems. A galactic empire could easily have a common realm-wide system. I see no reason why a comm network can't exist on most planets.

 

[E.D.Quibell]

Vanguard Class Weather GPS Com Satellite
Ewan Quibell 2009-11-03

CraftID: Vanguard Class Weather/GPS/Com Satellite, TL10, Cr151,537
Hull: 1/1, Disp=0.074, Config=0USL, Armour=40E, Unloaded=0.6745 tons, Loaded=0.6745 tons
Power: 1/2, Batteries=0.25 Mwh, Solar=0.025 Mw, Duration=10 hours/unlimited
Loco: 1/1, LowPowerH-GravTrust=0.25 ton, MaxAccel=0.37G
Comm: Radio=Planetary x4
Sensors: Synthetic Vision, Densitometer=LowPen(Surface), Neutrino=Direction only,
Off: Hardpoints=1
Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Computer=0, Panel=Dynamic linked x3
Accom: -
Other: Cargo=0.06 kliters, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
Comment: Construction Time=6 weeks single, 4 weeks multiple

The Vanguard Class is the old Empire’s standard weather/GPS/comsat design used throughout Imperial space including in Home County. Originally manufactured by Wholeson LIC, these are now manufactured in Home County by Christchurch LCC.
Weather data is generally sent instantly to ground stations for analysis, however it is possible to store it on board if needed. The 0.06 kliters of cargo space can be converted to additional data storage as necessary. Visual, infrared data and air/cloud density is collected for weather reporting, along with digital imagery of the planetary surface for mapping. The radios can be programmed to send, receive and track to and from multiple ground stations allowing analog or digital communications, while one radio is designed for GPS signal broadcast.
Vanguards are usually set up in geosynchronous orbits around the planet they are assigned to, in order to facilitate their functions. The orbits and positions of each of the satellites are shared across the network so that the network can be self correcting without operator intervention as necessary for a limited time.
The minimum deployable constellations for complete planetary coverage is a 10 system network, however such a minimum configuration produces periods and areas of extremely poor GPS positional accuracy. If only a limited amount of satellites (to a minimum of 4) are available it is recommended to set-up concentrated constellations to cover only part of the planetary surface to allow for a high degree of GPS accuracy within the covered area. With any less than 4 satellites it is not possible to provide GPS functionality with sufficient accuracy and the radio assigned to this roll can be retasked to provide additional communications capacity.
The Vanguards power requirements are completely met from the solar cells, however a battery is provided to allow for up to 10 hours run time without solar input as may be necessary due to circumstances.

 

[Icosahedron]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Is the 10 / 4 unit minimum researched from RL? Is this only for GPS? How many are needed for comm support only?

 

[aramis]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Is the 10 / 4 unit minimum researched from RL? Is this only for GPS? How many are needed for comm support only?

basic trig says absolute minimum is 3 satellites for world-wide commo to assure that:

1. the sats can see each other
2. you can always see one within 120° (you'll seldom actuall have 180° clear, and would need more to guarantee hitting one of two).

If far enough out, you can get up to about 75° or even 80° from the equator, depending on terrain.

To get a 3d location, you'll need to be able to see at least 2 at a time (to triangulate, and that means at least four in orbit). Your sats can provide very accurate longitude, and weak lattitude, but if you add gyro and gravity detectction, and dual¹ antennae, you can get a very accurate reverse angle on the lattitude. (Just like using a sextant.)

Adding a handful (6 or so) in polar orbits, and they can ping their time index and their distance from the others, and give a very

On the other hand, a set of 6 in two sets of three, 1 set in an tropic-to-tropic orbit and the other set equatorial, can give a system of location as well in good three-d, especially if the tropical orbits are set for the same overall orbital duration. But it does mean having to know where they are in their orbits... which they can do very accurately as well, because each can see 2-3 others, and they can count whether they're on north or south lobe.

And if the sats are gyrostablilized on the N/S axis, and have good DF antennae, themselves, they'll be able to tell if they're N/S lobe by the angle to the other sats.

Mind you, I've read a couple articles on it, but it's all just basic middle-school level trig.

¹ Really, you want 4-6, to allow 3D direction finding, but two and instructions to hold the unit vertically will do just fine.

 

[Sanjuro]

Because GPS works on the same principle as the older Decca and Loran chains, ie on measuring not the distance of the receiver from a transmitting station, but on the difference in distance of the receiver from several transmitters, it requires a minimum of 3 satellites to generate a 2-D position, and at least 4 for a 3-D position.
It's a really hard concept to describe, but it makes sense when you see the diagram...

 

[aramis]

Actually, Sanjuro, LORAN tech can pinpoint your location in 2D with just two, if you have two separated antennae to determine angle by phase discrimination on each signal.

And I know for a fact that direction-finding LORAN-C units exist... a buddy of mine had one in his float-plane. (Essentially, the LORAN-C protocol gives a particular 2D distance curve line; by adding radio direction finding, you can get an angle to both stations, reducing the location possibility to 2 points, and by knowing the antennae orientation, one can rule out one of them in a 2D nav problem)

And TacAN and VOR/DME can do 2d with one station. Because you routinely use dual antennae per unit. (TacAN uses a dual signal specifically to generate a phase issue, which, when combined with dual antennae, gives a very precise angle measure (often better than 0°30' from the station, and to ±90m).

 

[Cryton]

What do you guys think: consider the I4 and its ilk, are they hand computers, comms, or both?

 

[aramis]

What do you guys think: consider the I4 and its ilk, are they hand computers, comms, or both?

Comms, and hand computers, but not the infamous Model/1 equivalent.

 

[Cryton]

Comms, and hand computers, but not the infamous Model/1 equivalent.

So more MgTs Model/0 then...

 

[sabredog]

Hand computers if you just add some extra space for storage and CPU horsepower. In fact, if you consider the removable storage with SD chips, etc, then it just needs more horsepower.

Combine it a pair of glasses so you have a virtual keyboard "displayed" in front of you, and a sensor for hand/finger position for typing then you really have the full rig needed for comfortable computing. Voice activation might even eliminate that.

 

[Dragoner]

for a hand comp, about the size of a deck of cards: 4,000 gigs ram, 140,000 gig hard drive, with a holo keyboard, holo screen and voice controls.

communication satellites will be very cheap, networks easy to install.

 

[sabredog]

for a hand comp, about the size of a deck of cards: 4,000 gigs ram, 140,000 gig hard drive, with a holo keyboard, holo screen and voice controls.

Don't forget the holo joystick for the Scoutship sim game.

 

[Dragoner]

No, the ancient solomani game of tactics- Squad Leader. However, they say it won't be too long until we can operate computers (and other computer controlled devices) by just having the computer read the electrical impulses from your brain. Imagine, switching the channel without even having to touch a remote.

 

[sabredog]

No, the ancient solomani game of tactics- Squad Leader.

Yeah...SL has enough bookkeeping to keep any Solomani happy.

 

[sabredog]

However, they say it won't be too long until we can operate computers (and other computer controlled devices) by just having the computer read the electrical impulses from your brain. Imagine, switching the channel without even having to touch a remote.

I dunno if I want that. It wouldn't be good if ⌧ just popped up on my screen every time I got bored typing a report. Or got bored with the movie I was watching with my wife.