The Empress Arbellatra Alkhalikoi
- Thread starter fiat_knox
- Start date
I can't recall where I read it (I think it was in one of the MegaTraveller series) the date is a result of some sort of tapeworm screwing around with the Imperial Archive, including retconning the borthdate of the Grand Lady to some ridiculous year, namely 587, making her 17 when Olav confirmed her Captaincy.
I'm nowadays leaning towards her being a genuinely precocious young woman, a prodigy of command and a natural born leader from a disturbingly young age. The same as how Mozart was composing symphonies at the age of 9, and there are some children nowadays who can beat the pants off Grandmasters of chess at the age of seven.
I was looking at the MGT chargen options in their High Guard, and one of the Naval career options, High Command, mentioned a sub-branch of "Daredevil," with the character sketch of a young woman at the helm of a Starship, all cut up and bloodied, riding a burning bridge to victory in pitched space combat. That image kind of suits her.
I'm nowadays leaning towards her being a genuinely precocious young woman, a prodigy of command and a natural born leader from a disturbingly young age. The same as how Mozart was composing symphonies at the age of 9, and there are some children nowadays who can beat the pants off Grandmasters of chess at the age of seven.
I was looking at the MGT chargen options in their High Guard, and one of the Naval career options, High Command, mentioned a sub-branch of "Daredevil," with the character sketch of a young woman at the helm of a Starship, all cut up and bloodied, riding a burning bridge to victory in pitched space combat. That image kind of suits her.
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
So let me get this straight: You got a 16 year old girl takes command of a fleet in war time and successfully defends her homeworld. I can see an answer.
Normally a 16 year old would be at best, maybe Lt JG, probably ensign. You don't hand command of a fleet to someone that young under normal circumstances, even if she is the duchess. So that would indicate unusual circumstances, and wartime is full of them.
If the commanding officer is killed, command flows down hill. Even an ensign can find themselves thrust in command if the rest of the command structure is wiped out. And if this lowly, yet of noble birth, ensign actually turns defeat into victory, all the more reason to promote her.
Her age may have not made it in the file when her promotion was offered. That could make for a funny scene when they found out later.
Granted, it ain't cannon, but ...
Normally a 16 year old would be at best, maybe Lt JG, probably ensign. You don't hand command of a fleet to someone that young under normal circumstances, even if she is the duchess. So that would indicate unusual circumstances, and wartime is full of them.
If the commanding officer is killed, command flows down hill. Even an ensign can find themselves thrust in command if the rest of the command structure is wiped out. And if this lowly, yet of noble birth, ensign actually turns defeat into victory, all the more reason to promote her.
Her age may have not made it in the file when her promotion was offered. That could make for a funny scene when they found out later.
Granted, it ain't cannon, but ...
A small point....
Arbellatra on the other hand was an able commander, a shrewd politician and in the end a pretty fore thinking Empress.
Big difference and as a Member of the Nobility and the Imperial Moot (in good standing), I feel the need to save Her Imperial Majesty's Name lest it be tainted by association with General Custer(KIA).
Custer was a FREAKING DAREDEVIL MORON, who eventually got his entire command righteously slaughtered because his silly glory hounding self couldn't wait for full Scout reports and Reinforcements (Reno & Butler, IIRC).
Arbellatra on the other hand was an able commander, a shrewd politician and in the end a pretty fore thinking Empress.
Big difference and as a Member of the Nobility and the Imperial Moot (in good standing), I feel the need to save Her Imperial Majesty's Name lest it be tainted by association with General Custer(KIA).
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
True, that is how he ended his life. But, it is not a true reckoning of his service during the ACW. He was a fine horseman, and a very capable officer, his men would have followed him into hell. That was not a common thing in the Union Cavalry, which suffered under poor leadership and training in the early part of the war. It was officers like Custer that turned it around.
Unfortunately in the years after the ACW he became invested in his legend. Or to put it another way, he came to be powered by the sense of his own self worth. Pride goeth before the fall.
Cavalry officers by definition are daredevils, risk takers in the extreme. Like anything, to much of a good thing becomes a bad thing, or in his case, a terminal thing. His was the overconfidence bourn of a life time of unbroken victories, his first defeat was also his last. Have a little care before throughing him over the backside of the ashe pit of history.
Unfortunately in the years after the ACW he became invested in his legend. Or to put it another way, he came to be powered by the sense of his own self worth. Pride goeth before the fall.
Cavalry officers by definition are daredevils, risk takers in the extreme. Like anything, to much of a good thing becomes a bad thing, or in his case, a terminal thing. His was the overconfidence bourn of a life time of unbroken victories, his first defeat was also his last. Have a little care before throughing him over the backside of the ashe pit of history.
Shelby Foote, IIRC
Of course, it could be that, because of a serious study a while back, of Custer's Last Stand, well, FUBARed his Troopers were. They would have mopped up just fine if the idiot General could have waited, so basically, I have like no respect for a Commanding Officer who leads his Unit to it's complete and 100% destruction for his own Glory. I mean the Natives couldn't prayed for a better ending, *shrugs* I suppose they did, God was on there side, well, that battle anyway, the rest of the time, maybe not so much....
Anyway, my point in all of this ranting is that I stand by my previous statement:
CUSTER WAS A FREAKING MORON!
Really, because I remember reading some History now and again, and as I recall in our little US Civil War Custer lead his troops in to some Reb troops and got the crap shot out his troops and they ended up having to be rescued.
Of course, it could be that, because of a serious study a while back, of Custer's Last Stand, well, FUBARed his Troopers were. They would have mopped up just fine if the idiot General could have waited, so basically, I have like no respect for a Commanding Officer who leads his Unit to it's complete and 100% destruction for his own Glory. I mean the Natives couldn't prayed for a better ending, *shrugs* I suppose they did, God was on there side, well, that battle anyway, the rest of the time, maybe not so much....
Anyway, my point in all of this ranting is that I stand by my previous statement:
CUSTER WAS A FREAKING MORON!
Indeed, they did.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Custer may have been a fool, (or just unlucky, or both), but it shows that, in the right situation, very young officers really can get promoted to high ranks.
Augustus' grandsons were generals at a very young age.
As I said earlier, making a 16 year old a captain is not something you'd expect from the Imperial Navy of the Classic Era, but the Civil War wasn't the Classic Era, so what of it? Instead of saying that a navy wouldn't allow a 16 year old captain, however noble, why not try to figure out what sort of navy would allow a 16 year old captain if sufficiently noble?
Hans
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Actually, I suspect the age is wrong. 18 is possible (ie at the Naval Academy), but 16 is a bit silly. A 16yo Noble could do it (maybe), but wouldn't hold a Naval rank.
Hi
Hi,
I had a couple thoughts when I 1st read this string. As you note her age may be wrong, possibly for a number of reasons;
- first, her birth date may be a typo. Perghaps she was born in 578 instead of 587.
- second, at some point in her life someone may have felt the need to revise her age, without thinking about how that affected history. Specifically, I seem to recall once reading how for a couple years in a row, the actress Julia Robert's publicist kept claiming she was only 24 years old. Maybe at some point in her life the Empress similar became age conscious and felt that 60 sounded too old so she claimed to only be 50, moving up her birth year, without really worrying about how that affected the past.
- finally, maybe she was Joan of Arc ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc ) re-incarnated, or at least someone similar. And as such maybe she (and others) felt she was inspired by a higher power (even as a 16 year old) or perhaps its possible her role at that early age was more as a figure head than as a military leader (as some have suggested for Joan of Arc).
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Regards
PF
Hi,
I had a couple thoughts when I 1st read this string. As you note her age may be wrong, possibly for a number of reasons;
- first, her birth date may be a typo. Perghaps she was born in 578 instead of 587.
- second, at some point in her life someone may have felt the need to revise her age, without thinking about how that affected history. Specifically, I seem to recall once reading how for a couple years in a row, the actress Julia Robert's publicist kept claiming she was only 24 years old. Maybe at some point in her life the Empress similar became age conscious and felt that 60 sounded too old so she claimed to only be 50, moving up her birth year, without really worrying about how that affected the past.
- finally, maybe she was Joan of Arc ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc ) re-incarnated, or at least someone similar. And as such maybe she (and others) felt she was inspired by a higher power (even as a 16 year old) or perhaps its possible her role at that early age was more as a figure head than as a military leader (as some have suggested for Joan of Arc).
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Regards
PF
What you are describing, in a single word, is a Wunderkind. (A Wonder Child).
Otherwise known as a prodigy.
As I stated in an earlier post on this thread, Mozart was a genius at an early age, composing symphonies at the age of 9 years old and beating the pants off much older composers of his time. Children aged 11 earning degrees make headline news. Granted, they don't have much of a personality outside of their chosen field, whether it be chess, mathematics, music or whatever; but it's possible that statistically someone could be born who, at such a young age, could have a very natural flair for command and tactics surpassing those far older than them.
I cite one classic sf example of such a personage.
Ender's Game.
Another example, and closer to point: Miles Naismith vorKosigan, aka Miles Naismith, from Lois McMaster Bujold's The Warrior's Apprentice (or the omnibus Young Miles). At 17, he's "Admiral Naismith" (and, at the same time, Ensign Miles Naismith vorKosigan, and holds the title Lord vorKosigan).
Of course, his prodigy is in Jack-of-all-trades, intimidate, and Bluff.
Of course, his prodigy is in Jack-of-all-trades, intimidate, and Bluff.
If so, it's a error that is ubiquitous to all sources we know of. And the truth is not really something that an encyclopedia fact checker would have much trouble tracking down. Even at birth Arbellatra (as heir to an Imperial duke) was one of the 600 most important people in an empire of well over ten trillion souls. Her birth is going to've been documented up the wazoo. I find it far easier to accept that the young Duchess of Rhylanor took charge of Rhylanor's defenses in an emergency and was subsequently commisioned by Grand Admiral Olav. Sort of a battlefield commision. And who says a 16 year old can't hold a naval rank if the Grand Admiral says she can? Even if she was a total incompetent, she'd still be a naval officer officially. And if she turned out to have the skill, knowledge, charisma, and gravitas to actually do the job... well, all the better.
Hans
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Re-reading it, this seems to be what happened:
At 15, she becomes Duchess. At 16, she commanded the system defences, in her capacity as Duchess. Initially, maybe she was just a figurehead, but presumably she showed some military talent, and became something of a hero. Afterwards, she was given a commission as a Captain. She made Grand Admiral at 29, which is very young, but not too silly considering she's a Duchess, a war hero, and she had a 20-year head start...
At 15, she becomes Duchess. At 16, she commanded the system defences, in her capacity as Duchess. Initially, maybe she was just a figurehead, but presumably she showed some military talent, and became something of a hero. Afterwards, she was given a commission as a Captain. She made Grand Admiral at 29, which is very young, but not too silly considering she's a Duchess, a war hero, and she had a 20-year head start...
Considering the almost total dissimilarity between the two, I'd say the likelihood is slim to none.
Admiral Soegz for one. Lord Kevin Alderon, her flag captain, for another. No, Lord Alderon is not canon (yet
), but I made him up for an Amber Zone I wrote for PYRAMID. Here's what I wrote about him:"Kevin Alderon is indeed well-known. He was Arbellatra's flag captain at the end of the 2nd Frontier War and followed her to the Imperial Core where he eventually became Grand Admiral of the Fleets and 1st Space Lord. Upon Arbellatra's death in 666 he retired to Kinorb where he lived out his remaining years in obscurity. About 50 years ago he was immortalized by an author named D.T. Woodsman who wrote a semi-biographical bestseller about him and followed up with a dozen sequels (All of which have since been turned into smash holo-dramas)." [http://jtas.sjgames.com/login/article.cgi?24]
I'm presently working on a writeup of Kinorb. Kinorb has a history of trouble with Vargr corsairs, but between 630 and 666 a full Cruiser Squadron just happened to be stationed at Kinorb, allowing them a period of peace of prosperity. This was, of course, completely by happenstance
.Hans
And yet I fancy that I have a passing acquaintance with them.Obviously you have not slogged through all the Honor Harrington books.
Actually, she appears 12 ("Looked like somebody's pre-teen sister" [Ms. Midshipman Harrington]) and is around 18 (I'm not sure how old pre-war midshipmen are on their snotty cruise).
She becomes ruler of a planet and is a war hero.
Besides a few more things like carrying 45 auto.
Honor Harrington
Was a yeoman's daughter
Went to naval academy
Spent her time and more in each grade up to captain (when the books starts)
Wouldn't rise to a position equivalent to the one Arbellatra started with (Imperial Duchess) even if she became Queen of the Manticoran Star Empire.
Hans
Peter Schutze
SOC-12
>She becomes ruler of a planet
which planet ?
She becomes one of (50 ?) steadholders and best buddies with the "king" protector of Grayson as well as the manticoran royals
The only person becoming a planetary ruler I can remember besides the Peep's changes of government is the Crown of Slaves book and related stories which is not Harrington.
>I'm not sure how old pre-war midshipmen
its not clear in any of the stories even those not directly about Harrington. 4th year college student equivalent seems to be the suggestion.
the only specific ages I recall is in 'shadow of saganami'.
which planet ?
She becomes one of (50 ?) steadholders and best buddies with the "king" protector of Grayson as well as the manticoran royals
The only person becoming a planetary ruler I can remember besides the Peep's changes of government is the Crown of Slaves book and related stories which is not Harrington.
>I'm not sure how old pre-war midshipmen
its not clear in any of the stories even those not directly about Harrington. 4th year college student equivalent seems to be the suggestion.
the only specific ages I recall is in 'shadow of saganami'.
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