A Traveller Webcomic

[rancke]

But the fact remains that he did,

A redundant observation. If he hadn't, the question of whether or not he was justified in taking offense would not have arisen.

...and many readers of this thread will understand why.

How many? And what does it matter? The Appeal to the Silent Majority is not a proper argument, let alone proof of anything.


Hans

 

[Centurion13]

************

 

[rancke]

I am not silent.

I didn't say you were. I said you were employing the fallacy known as the Appeal to the Silent Majority, which is a fallacy for two reasons, 1) You don't know how many people agree with you and 2) no matter how many people agree with you it doesn't prove that you're right.

I believe someone questioned the man's honesty, which is a far cry from criticizing his work.

You believe wrong. Bill didn't question his honesty, he suggested that he was rationalizing.

He left. Not hard to follow that...

Nor would I have thought that it was hard to grasp that an obseverd behavior and the motivation for said behavior are two different and distinct things, but twice now you appear to have failed to do so.

...and to the devil with your 'proper arguments' and 'proof'.

Ah ah! Language! You wouldn't want me to take offense and leave these boards in a huff, now would you? Or provoke a moderator into locking the thread before you have a chance to convince me of the rightness of your viewpoint? That would be a tragedy indeed.

Do you think I came to this board or this thread to sit on my fat butt and hold arguments with people I will never meet and care nothing about?

All the evidence so far seem to support such a theory, but I admit that this scarcely constitute solid proof.

No. Knock it off. Have you even been to the man's website? If I had done half of what that man has done for Traveller fans, I would be ticked off by folks like you, too.

His prior service to our fair community proves absolutely nothing one way or the other about his behavior. And... "people like me"? Are you trying to see how many fallacies you can pack into one post?

I agree with Beech. And I am NOT silent.

So why would you expect others to be and why are you trying to shut people with divergent opinions up?


Hans

 

[Centurion13]

****************

 

[flykiller]

The fellow who began it has been driven off.

by one guy?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Phew! Now I remember why I stopped posting here.

Enthusiasm is the number one thing for the success of a game session or any other social project. Following or arguing about "canon" helps not at all, and in fact kills enthusiasm. Which makes for a fizzle of a game session. It's because of guys like you I have to put on the Viking Hat.

The comic is F*ING AWESOME. Ignore these blokes. Just sort it out so it's easier to page through. Have a look at Crimson Dark for a fellow doing similar stuff. His comic and forum will help give you enthusiasm.

Now I'm back to lurking.

 

[Commander Drax]

Phew! Now I remember why I stopped posting here.

Enthusiasm is the number one thing for the success of a game session or any other social project. Following or arguing about "canon" helps not at all, and in fact kills enthusiasm. Which makes for a fizzle of a game session. It's because of guys like you I have to put on the Viking Hat.

The comic is F*ING AWESOME. Ignore these blokes. Just sort it out so it's easier to page through. Have a look at Crimson Dark for a fellow doing similar stuff. His comic and forum will help give you enthusiasm.

Now I'm back to lurking.

I too lurked for a long time after many years of posting and agree with your sentiments,

Crimson Dark is Excellent, I'm going to start reading it.

 

[aramis]

Crimson Dark is awesome... but it is likely to go on hiatus soon, sadly, due to the author's school schedule.

 

[whtknght]

The comic is F*ING AWESOME. Ignore these blokes. Just sort it out so it's easier to page through. Have a look at Crimson Dark for a fellow doing similar stuff. His comic and forum will help give you enthusiasm.

Your right, that was an awesome comic.

 

[Icosahedron]

So now, having butchered the hard work of our poor guys, it's time to give a standing ovation to a rival comic?

 

[Colin]

Sigh Aside from the "Special Olympics" comment, nothing Bill said was really out of line. A bit direct, but it was valid criticism for a comic labeled a Traveller web comic. It's a very good comic, and personally I have nothing but respect for Beech. I intend to keep reading the comic and see how it develops. Perhaps he'll figure out a way to get around the limitations of a 8-page comic to show more Traveller-like action. Or perhaps not, and I'll enjoy it anyway. Maybe he'll even start on a 2300/2320 comic, and then he'll be my best friend.

I've run afoul of Mr. Whipsnade's criticism once or twice myself, in writing 2320AD. It's always good, well-intentioned, and direct enough to be almost brutal. But it's not. Please take it in the spirit in which it was intended, and move on. Now, if the criticism of the criticism continues, I'll be forced to lock the thread. If you want to keep discussing Beech's excellent web comic this is the place. I'm sure if it gets out of line, someone will let me know (again).

 

[bozzutoman]

Fine work. The art-style is very engaging. You've done a fine job of trying to capture the flavor of the Traveller milieu despite the need to sidestep the straight-jacket of incredibly bland minutae that is typical throughout the Traveller rules.

On the tone of this thread: Folks, grow thicker skin.

The OP needs to realize that your skills will NEVER be universally loved. And what you faced here is nothing compared to the general masses. Read any of the comments for any movie on imdb.com and you will see naked hatred in criticism. What you got here from Whipsnade was mildly blunt, but it was definitely nice compared to the "that was pure suckage, you are built of fail!" comments you could've gotten.

And critics criticizing other critcs on how they criticized the OP's work? WTF?

 

[Thunderbolt]

Looking good!

 

[ravells]

I loved it. I hope to see more.

Re Bill's comments: I think the best way to view them is as well intentioned advice which you can choose to ignore. (I know, it's hard when you've sweated hours of blood in producing the work).

Cheers, Beech and please don't let the comments put you off writing and drawing more of the webcomic.

Ravs

 

[Beech]

OK, so I'm still here and I just want to put the record straight.

1. I didn't leave CotI - just the typical and inevitable CotI argument that was brewing on this thread, I do not want get into arguments for arguing sake, and boy, its amazing how this forum can argue itself time and time again into such a frenzy over things of so little importance.

2. The reason I left the thread was not because I had my feelings hurt it over the execution of the comic, it was because I perceived (rightly or wrongly) that I had been accused of post-rationalisation when I had tried to explain something and therefore questioning my honesty, and I quite frankly was bored with needing to explain my actions and then having them doubted (OK so I had a sulk!). That's all. I do not need a counter argument again here Bill C., we can just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

3. The comic will continue the way it is, because being totally enslaved to the internal laws of 'Traveller-the RPG' does not a good action-adventure comic make (panel after panel of watching blips on a screen and being attacked by something you cannot see are not that engrossing visually even if they are fun to game). Therefore please accept that we will take a few liberties and enjoy it for what it is. No one makes a big stink over James Bond or Jack Bauer being unrealistic (er, OK, my wife does! ), just think of this being similar but set in our universe, suspend your disbelief and don't get bogged down in the rules when reading it. And just to stop any further debates about this I will stick a similar disclaimer on the website.

4. The comic is not just me, davebill is the guy with the story - I only do the pictures. He is the real talent and the reason you will be hooked and still be reading it in years to come (I hope).

5. A few amendments are being made to the first chapter, so there will be a revised version soon, I'll keep you posted (amongst other things I am going to turn the 'fighters' into the recognisable Traveller SDB's they are should have been if I had the time)

6. Crimson Dark is great - it's where I got the idea!

7. All publicity is good publicity, that comic page got over 300 hits in the past week and I have had an awful lot of emails from people saying they like it, so thanks for keeping this thread entertaining for 'the silent masses'.

oh, and...
8. Colin, I want to be your best friend, I'll post a message on our facebook page.

And please no more unnecessary debate, its supposed to be an entertainment, not a threat to anybody's vision of how Traveller should be. Just fun, OK.

Thanks for listening and thanks for reading the comic.

 

[rancke]

1. I didn't leave CotI - just the typical and inevitable CotI argument that was brewing on this thread, I do not want get into arguments for arguing sake, and boy, its amazing how this forum can argue itself time and time again into such a frenzy over things of so little importance.

I'm glad you didn't get scared away. There's always room for more Traveller fans. But this is a debating forum, and arguing is what people do when they debate. And 'frenzy' is much too strong a word for even the most agitated debate I've seen here.

2. The reason I left the thread was not because I had my feelings hurt it over the execution of the comic, it was because I perceived (rightly or wrongly) that I had been accused of post-rationalisation when I had tried to explain something and therefore questioning my honesty, and I quite frankly was bored with needing to explain my actions and then having them doubted (OK so I had a sulk!). That's all.

Rationalization is not the same thing as lying.

3. The comic will continue the way it is, because being totally enslaved to the internal laws of 'Traveller-the RPG' does not a good action-adventure comic make (panel after panel of watching blips on a screen and being attacked by something you cannot see are not that engrossing visually even if they are fun to game). Therefore please accept that we will take a few liberties and enjoy it for what it is.

On the principle that exaggeration improves understanding, let me propose an analogy. say someone did a webcomic set in the Spinward Marches, a border province of the mighty Third Imperium, a fantasy nation surrounded by wily Zhodani wizard-lords, unruly Vargr werewolves, fanatic K'Kree centaurs, subtle insectoid Hivers, savage barbarian Solomani, and land-hungry Aslan raksashas. Would you consider it silly pettifoggery if someone protested that "that's not Traveller!" And if the artist retorted, "What are you talking about? There are Zhodani and Vargr and K'Kree and Hivers and Solomani and Aslans! Of course it's Traveller!", do you think he'd be entitled to call it a Traveller webcomic? And would the quality of the comic have any bearing on the question of whether or not it was Traveller?

OK, this is not the same thing, because your comic is SF. As I said, the analogy is exaggerated. But while Traveller is SF, not all SF is Traveller. Now, not everybody agrees on exactly what Traveller is, but Bill expressed the opinion that your comic doesn't fit the broad parameters that include Traveller. If you think he's wrong, that's one thing. But if you think he's right, but just don't want to be "totally enslaved to the internal laws of 'Traveller-the RPG' " then maybe the simplest solution would be not to label it 'Traveller'.

No one makes a big stink over James Bond or Jack Bauer being unrealistic

Actually, if you billed a Regency romance as the next James Bond book, you'd get plenty of unsavory olfactory stimulation.

In fact, if you made a movie with a James Bond who didn't care if his martini was shaken or stirred, there'd be people who'd complain that it might be a spy story, but it wasn't James Bond .

And please no more unnecessary debate,

Perish the thought. I wouldn't dream of any more unnecessary debate. I'm going to stick exclusively to nevessary debate.

...its supposed to be an entertainment, not a threat to anybody's vision of how Traveller should be. Just fun, OK.

"Hey, lighten up, it's just a story with wizards and werewolves and cats..."


Hans

 

[flykiller]

(OK so I had a sulk!)j

well conceded, sir.

 

[Easterner9504]

Dave Chase

I just used the Bold Beat Stick Of Death to conk a buddy at Consimworld!!! How come I don't get one here?



Beech there are two sides to every wording folks make. I see why Bill caused you to sulk, yet I read no insult in his post. About the same time as the Sturm and Drang here Rancke very politely called me a liar on d100t thread. I took no offense because his view was reasonable as I was multi-posting in thread. It made it appear I was interested. In reality I saw his question as an intellectual exercise, nothing more which was why I didn't want to 'argue' with Free-Trader, I wasn't that invested. So I took no umbrage as Ranke's skepticism would be well warranted from his vantage point.

 

[Supplement Four]

(panel after panel of watching blips on a screen and being attacked by something you cannot see are not that engrossing visually even if they are fun to game).

I was one of the first to say that I really liked what you did.

But, I also want to address what you've said here: I think, in the hands of a creative person, yes, you can make space battles exciting in a comic even if they're far beyond visual range.

 

[ravells]

I'm actually trying to think really hard of a single SF film, TV series or comic strip where the battles are out of visual range....there must be at least one!

I suppose in Trek the visual they have is optically enhanced when they see it from the bridge.