Post Apocalyptic settings

[RainOfSteel]

My premise is that in this TU, worlds natively under TL7/8 are interdicted under a form of Prime Directive and are not contacted until they have proven themselves worthy of citizenship by handling nuclear weapons responsibly.
One such planet has undergone a global nuclear war and the game is about how the survivors handle the situation.

But, frankly, while the rules may let you run such a campaign, and there's mechanics and such for most everything, it doesn't sound like Traveller to me. Twilight 2000 maybe, depending on how much military you want. But, not Traveller at all.

Traveller encompasses all forms of of Science Fiction RP. Even within the standard Charted Space milieu, the above works. In an original milieu, it definitely works.

It's going to be rather interesting when the people on that bombed-out world discover the interstellar civilization around them, and that in their time of need, the community sat around and did nothing. This breeds bitterness. Conflict is the soul of RP. Thus, a future generation's campaign is sown.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Anyhow, I'm not sure this talk about MTU is helping the OP, it doesn't seem to be what he's looking for.

The OP is going to need to provide some more input. I know more about what you're doing than about what the OP is doing.

 

[whartung]

You do realize that something like 60-70% of the worlds in the OTU are tech level 9 or less, right?

And to paraphrase Sam Kinison "We have deserts in America, we just don't live in them."

Low tech worlds are more often that not, pawns in a greater scheme in "typical" Traveller games.

What's in a label?

If a group of friends want to use the rules they're familiar with to play a PA game, who's to argue?

As Fusor suggests, it's no different in principle from any other dirtside game on a low tech, backwater world away from outside help.

Labels are used to communicate broader topics.

If someone said to me "Hey do you want to play Traveller" and when I showed up he handed me a Player Card with:

Name: Tug
999532 Stick-1 Hunting-1 Fire-1

"You're on a TL0 planet, not that you have any inkling of what TL means, and winter is coming in. You have a cougar pelt, a sharp stick, and a rock. Todays adventure is trying to find a piece of flint."

or:

Name: Edgar
665A95 Accounting-1 Calculator-1

"It's 1947, you're an Accounting Intern in Massachusetts, at an Accounting Camp for a New York based accounting firm. Here, to prepare you for corporate audits, your primary task for the summer is adding up the phone numbers out of pages in the the phonebook assigned by your instructor. He happens to have all 4 columns of 100 pages totals memorized and walks around with a riding crop. If you pass camp, you get to look forward to a 20 year career with the firm, eventually ending back here telling students to add up phonebook pages. Roll 8+ to add up page 27, column 3 correctly."

I dare say I would mention that this isn't quite what I was expecting.

Yes, it CAN be done. You'll note on the "How do you describe Traveller" thread, that most of those posts don't mention these scenarios. They mention stuff a bit more sci-fi. A bit higher tech.

When someone says "Hey, do you want to play D&D" and all you turn out to be a Level 1 proprietor of a candle shop, doesn't quite fit the label of what "D&D" is, does it? Wrapping candles and haggling with the tallow supplier. Doesn't quite fit the expectations you might have had going in.

Go in to an American bar, and order "a beer, whatever you have on draft" and end up with warm Guinness, most consumers will be disappointed.

Labels bring assumptions, that's part of their meta nature.

So, yea, it may use Traveller mechanics, square dice and index cards, but it doesn't sound like "Traveller" to me. That's not what it says on the box.

 

[fusor]

So, yea, it may use Traveller mechanics, square dice and index cards, but it doesn't sound like "Traveller" to me. That's not what it says on the box.

It does say Traveller on the box though and those scenarios can be played as you described using Traveller rules, so technically it's entirely accurate to call a caveman or 1940s accountant game "Traveller". They may not be the OTU, but they're still Traveller.

And while it does say "Science Fiction Adventure In The Far Future", as I said about 60-70% of all worlds in the Imperium are equal to our tech level lor less. To be honest I think the only really "futuristic" thing in Traveller is the fact that it has spaceships, everything else feels very close to our own TL.

 

[Icosahedron]

If someone said to me "Hey do you want to play Traveller" and when I showed up he handed me a Player Card with:

Name: Tug
999532 Stick-1 Hunting-1 Fire-1
<snip>...
So, yea, it may use Traveller mechanics, square dice and index cards, but it doesn't sound like "Traveller" to me. That's not what it says on the box.

Well, my players knew what was on offer. Deception is an entirely different matter.
If I offer you a Mad Max style game using Traveller rules, you're free to join in or not.

If I've got Traveller handy, I'm sure as hell not going to go out and spend another twenty quid on a dedicated set of Mad Max rules, just cos that's what it says on the box...

It does say Traveller on the box though and those scenarios can be played as you described using Traveller rules, so technically it's entirely accurate to call a caveman or 1940s accountant game "Traveller". They may not be the OTU, but they're still Traveller.

My thinking exactly.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The OP is going to need to provide some more input. I know more about what you're doing than about what the OP is doing.

Pretty much everything I intend I've written in this thread.

 

[hdan]

Now, I can see (and perhaps this is splitting some hairs) a party as part of the interdiction force/service, perhaps going down to evaluate the planet. Be part of some assessment team to get the interdiction lifted or extended. Perhaps THEY violate the Prime Directive, or they're down there trying to clean up a violation. Something like that.

But just post nuclear holocaust scrounging for gas, food, and ammo, and ignorant of the greater universe around them (i.e. they think they're "alone")...meh. Doesn't sound very "far future" to me is all.

Agreed. On my PostApoc worlds, the inhabitants know about space flight and to some degree the universe around them, and many have even seen ships coming/going, but they lack the funds or maybe desire to leave. Perhaps they aren't the "travelling" type, or maybe they think that they can make a New World Order that puts them on top.

 

[hdan]

And while it does say "Science Fiction Adventure In The Far Future", as I said about 60-70% of all worlds in the Imperium are equal to our tech level lor less. To be honest I think the only really "futuristic" thing in Traveller is the fact that it has spaceships, everything else feels very close to our own TL.

Unless the world is WAY off the beaten path, I don't think a TL-7 world is going to be anything like our world. Though they don't have the local technology base to create modern (for the Imperium) devices like Air/Rafts and such, if they have money and a large enough market base, they will still have those items available.

In most cases, member worlds have been in the Imperium for centuries, so will have adapted their lives to depend on "off world" items, though the more conservative ones will have reasonable local backups. In fact, that's what keeps most Imperial worlds from bothering to advance their tech level - why bother, when you can have it shipped in? Unless a MegaCorp decides to use your planet as a manufacturing center, in which case they'll probably invest in strengthening your local TL to support their operation.

Think of Tatooine from Star Wars - there seems to be almost no technology base there at all, and the economy seems to be driven by scrounging, imports and illegal activities, yet they still have speeders, a starport, blasters, droids....

In Imperial space, I view low-TL worlds as just being "grungier and more expensive" than high-TL worlds, though of course that's a generalization.

 

[rancke]

Unless the world is WAY off the beaten path, I don't think a TL-7 world is going to be anything like our world. Though they don't have the local technology base to create modern (for the Imperium) devices like Air/Rafts and such, if they have money and a large enough market base, they will still have those items available.

However, if they can afford to import enough such items for a sizable majority of the population, they're effectively living and functioning at the higher tech level, the canonical Traveller definition notwithstanding. Which makes the canonical Traveller definition about TL being local manufacturing capability pretty useless for RPG gaming purposes, not to mention contradictory of several canonical planet writeups.

(Note that such places as mining colonies would actually be TL0 by that definition).

Which is why I use TL as an indicator of the technology most commonly used on the world, regardless of whether the goods are locally produced or imported.


Hans

 

[Blue Ghost]

Hmm, interesting.

I guess maybe I should add that there's all kinds of permutations for Post-Apoc settings. I think someone here mentioned that in Mad Max things were kind of bad, but you still had pockets of civilization. In Mad Max 2 the main character wandered out into the places where things weren't so cool. I think that can work in a Traveller setting. The writeup I'm doing sets a table for a post-apoc setting, and has as a component a tie to the Imperium, however loose.

So, on the one hand, you have a world that's completely wiped itself out with no contact with anybody or anything beyond those trying to eek out an existence. And then you might have worlds that were hit by some kind of disaster or local conflict that still have ships visiting from time to time (however odd that may sound).

Just a thought.

 

[Dragoner]

Asmodeus in the Spinward Marches had a nuclear war, but it is in the Zhodani zone, so I don't know how that works out. There is also another world in the Trojan Reach from Leviathan that had a nuclear war, but it says everyone died, though one could make it that not EVERYONE died, they just didn't find them in their underground shelters, etc. .

 

[RainOfSteel]

I guess maybe I should add that there's all kinds of permutations for Post-Apoc settings.

1. Disaster: A great disaster has just struck. You will now live through the immediate consequences. Thank goodness for all that canned food and convenient camping gear to filter or purify water (assuming the "disaster" left anything intact). Now you just have to fight it out with every other group for possession of left-over food and gear. (Dragon Head manga)
2. Darkness: A great disaster has recently struck and things have gone to heck. You will live through these dark times. Most people have died out. Every day is an adventure looking for food and water. (The Book of Eli)
3. Descending: The world is falling apart, bit by bit, and nothing can stop it. Chaos is already a greater force than law in every country. National governments, services, and transportation systems are breaking down or broken. Law and order exists only in isolated areas, and then only temporarily, or only at the point of a gun wielded by either heroes or villains. (Mad Max early stage, The Road Warrior late stage)
4. Aftermath: Long ago, a great disaster struck that reduced the great civilization of the past to ruins. The milieu has recovered just a bit. People begin to emerge from hiding and interact without shooting to kill first and not even thinking about questions ever. There may be some hope for the future, or not. (Gamma World)
5. Recovery: Long ago, a great disaster struck that reduced the great civilization of the past to ruins. Recovery in the milieu is gearing up to become significant. The great hope is to retrieve and rebuild the lost glories of the past in order to obtain a better life. (Traveller: The New Era, some versions of Rifts on Earth)
6. Recovered: Long ago, a great disaster struck that reduced the great civilization of the past to ruins. Various new civilizations have emerged and have reclaimed some, most, or all of the glories of the past, at least for some of their citizens. These civilizations may be at war with one another to achieve final reclamation, achieve or defend against some twisted ideology (or dark menace). Most people are either caught in the gears, exploiting others, or working toward a higher goal. (some versions of Rifts)

Yes.

 

[iron warrior]

SJG made a Gurps post apocalypse book called "reign of steel", a terminator ripoff.

 

[rancke]

SJG made a Gurps post apocalypse book called "reign of steel", a terminator ripoff.

I'm always amazed at the casual ease with which people make these accusations of intellectual brigandage. Terminator was no doubt one inspiration for Reign of Steel, but RoS is a vastly richer and more complex setting than the Terminator future. You might with equal justice (i.e. very little) refer to The Lord of the Rings as a 'Norse mythology rip-off'.


Hans

 

[iron warrior]

I've seen terminator, I've read RoS, I stick by my view on it.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Any other Post-Apoc thoughts, comments, feelings?

 

[snapshotbygdw]

I did run a PA type game several years ago based around Iain M Banks' "worlds of the dead" idea. Players needed to infiltrate a forbidden world preserved in a post ruin state as a monument to the megadeaths that occurred there. Their goal was to discover why the planet self destructed in order to prevent a neighbouring world from doing the same.

Game ran for only two months real time (about year for the characters). Looking back on my old notes shows that sessions were quite subdued and dark and campaign ran as a dread filled, protracted chase through a barren landscape with two players (5in group) becoming very demoralised by setting - one player, in a quite harrowing bit of roleplaying actually had his character commit suicide at which point group decided to abandon game, again referral to my GM log at the time suggest I was very relieved to quit too!

 

[RainOfSteel]

[...] at which point group decided to abandon game [...]

Unfortunately, this tends to be the fate of a lot of post-apocalypse type games. It's great to read about or watch, but actually playing it can be quite an issue.

 

[iron warrior]

Hmm, speaking of a PA game where things get too depressing, here's a twist that some of you here might want to consider.

It does involve time travel, but the idea is that in a Judge Dredd story the psi judges had forseen the utter destruction of megacity one in the relatively near future, and judges dredd and andersen were sent ahead in time to see what was going to happen and if it could be avoided.

Well, long story short they did, and came back, barely, with andersen suffering a serious leg wound and dredd having lost both eyes. As they were bemoaning their doom, dredd said he thiught there was a way to prevent it.

When andersen said "It's already happened!" dredd came back with a memorable reply "Then I'll UNhappen it!"

They were apparently abler to prevent the disaster by killing it's instigator in their present, but they still remembered what happened, andersen still had a leg scar and dredd still had bionic eyes, in addition to the dead body of the future dredd still stored in the "justice department" museum. (Paradox? Schmaradox!)

So, if you want a PA setting one way to keep it from becoming too depressing is to make it possible for the apocalypse to be prevented. If you can stand time travel, it might work.

 

[iron warrior]

I did run a PA type game several years ago based around Iain M Banks' "worlds of the dead" idea. Players needed to infiltrate a forbidden world preserved in a post ruin state as a monument to the megadeaths that occurred there. Their goal was to discover why the planet self destructed in order to prevent a neighbouring world from doing the same.

Game ran for only two months real time (about year for the characters). Looking back on my old notes shows that sessions were quite subdued and dark and campaign ran as a dread filled, protracted chase through a barren landscape with two players (5in group) becoming very demoralised by setting - one player, in a quite harrowing bit of roleplaying actually had his character commit suicide at which point group decided to abandon game, again referral to my GM log at the time suggest I was very relieved to quit too!

Hmm, wouldn't such a terrible setting encourage the player characters to go on in order to prevent it happening again?