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IMTU. A new (old) start

Cryton

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Im restructuring my Traveller universe, to be in line with the following two things I found in CT books 5 and 4.

From CT Book 5 (High Guard)

Traveller assumes a remote centralized government (referred to in this volume as the Imperium) possessed of great industrial and technological might; but due to the sheer distances and travel times involved within its star-spanning realm, the Im-perium is unable to be everywhere at once. As a result, the Imperium allows a large degree of autonomy to its subject worlds, calling only for some respect for its overall policies, and for a united front against outside pressures.
To monitor the space lanes, the Imperium maintains a Navy. Because these forces can never be everywhere at once, local provinces (subsectors) also maintain navies, as do individual worlds. This three tiered structure of Imperial, subsector, and planetary navies produces a flexible system for patrolling space, while putting the limited resources of the Imperium to best use.

From Book 4 (Mercenary)

Traveller assumes a remote centralized government (referred to in this volume as the Imperium), possessed of great industrial and technological might, but unable, due to the sheer distances and travel times involved, to exert total control at all levels everywhere within its star-spanning realm. On the frontiers, extensive home rule provisions allow planetary populations to choose their own forms of government, raise and maintain armed forces for local security, pass and enforce laws governing local conduct, and regulate (within limits) commerce. Defense of the frontier is mostly provided by local indigenous forces, stiffened by scattered lmperial naval bases manned by small but extremely sophisticated forces. Conflicting local interests often settle thier differences by force of arms, with lmperial forces looking quietly the other way, unable to effectively intervene as a police force in any but the most wide-spread of conflicts without jeopardizing thier primary mission of the defense of the realm. Only when local conflicts threaten either the security or the economy of the area do lmperial forces take an active hand, and then it is with speed and overwhelming force.

The combat environment of the frontier, then is one of small, short, limited wars. Both sides must carefully balance the considerations of how much force is required to win a conflict with how much force is likely to trigger lmperial intervention. At the same time, both belligerents will generally be working with relatively small populations, with only a negligible number of combat experienced veterans. In this environment, the professional soldier will find constant employment. Small, poor states faced with invasion or encroachment will hire professional soldiers as cadres to drill and lead their citizen militias. Larger states will be able to afford to hire and equip complete mercenary contingents as strikers, or spearhead troops. Small commando units will be in demand as industrial espionage is waged between mega-corporations virtually nations unto themselves. In addition, the hired soldier will always be in demand as security or bodyguard troops, as force remains the only true protection against force. The Golden Age of the Mercenary will have arrived.

What it all means:

It is now very important to know who the local Baron is, who he does or doesn't like, and if there a war between the planetary governments that would have have been a merchant's "golden pair" worlds. Its become a less "monolithic" Imperium, and while strong versus outside forces, very vulnerable to internal politics, wars and double-dealings. It explains why Scouts are such bad-@$$es.

It makes for a very different dynamic. It becomes a place very much more in favor of "adventure". One very much different from the "generally" accepted 3rd Imperium.
 
You mean that there are Traveller materials that contradict those two books?

I thought they were both the first and the final word on the Imperium's structure.
 
You mean that there are Traveller materials that contradict those two books?

I thought they were both the first and the final word on the Imperium's structure.

Adv 1 adds Edict 97, Imperial Warrants, and Interdictions... without which It just doesn't feel travelleresque.

Really, I get an odd sense that the Imperium was well thought out by 1979... probably by late 1978, and then it took a turn in a different direction by 1981.

Partly from Imperium, partly from Bks 4-5.

The the sudden changes as the Imperium started growing details added by others... as with A1, the details have carried forward, but really need to be carefully worked.
 
You mean that there are Traveller materials that contradict those two books?

I thought they were both the first and the final word on the Imperium's structure.

One of the common beliefs about the 3rd Imperium, and one that contradicts those statements is the belief that 3rd Imperial member worlds don't war on each other behind the 3rd Imperial governments back or that warfare between member worlds is unacceptable.

Another is that the Imperial Navy is omni present and prevents all acts of piracy, privateering, and out-right violence against merchant traffic in the space lanes. That it stops violence between member worlds and mega corporations, or that it intervenes in any but the most wide-spread of conflicts.

By the above definitions from books 4 and 5, small scale inter planetary wars, piracy, and acts of interplanetary violence not only happen, but are fairly common. Also, unless the acts become widespread, or threaten the security or economies of large areas, the acts are ignored by the 3rd Imperium Navies. I imagine trade wars between the various planetary governments and between Mega-corps can be quite common and bloody, and incidents of Mega-corp ships attacking free traders are quite violent AND common, and free trader versus Free Trader attacks even more so! (Saying "This is OUR trade line punk!" and reporting "He was a pirate!".).

It means that scenes of Imperial Nobles standing before the moot, asking for Imperial intercession are probably shockingly common, and that implies the Imperial Government is not nearly as strong as many would like to have it be.

Needless to say, it paints a much more dynamic and violent picture than the "safe, peaceful, monolithic" 3rd Imperium that many people have assumed over the years. Its not a friendly place for an unarmed free trader at all! (It also makes me think that if the two above definitions of the Imperium are correct, what is Vargar space really like? Especially considering as they view Imperial space as unchanging and monolithic!)
 
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By the above definitions from books 4 and 5, small scale inter planetary wars, piracy, and acts of interplanetary violence not only happen, but are fairly common.
Not quite. The texts you quote could be interpreted to include interstellar wars, but they can equally well be interpreted to mean limited on-planet conflicts only.


Hans
 
Really, I get an odd sense that the Imperium was well thought out by 1979... probably by late 1978, and then it took a turn in a different direction by 1981.

Partly from Imperium, partly from Bks 4-5.

The the sudden changes as the Imperium started growing details added by others... as with A1, the details have carried forward, but really need to be carefully worked.

That's a very interesting observation, and I suspect that you are correct.

I was just pondering this over on a thread that devolved into LBB2-bashing. After doing my own bit of demolishing my beloved Book 2, I realized that starship concepts for the OTU, beyond High Guard's level of detail, were already well thought out before Book 2. These OTU starshuip concepts (essentially) outpaced ship design systems until MegaTraveller.
 
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Not quite. The texts you quote could be interpreted to include interstellar wars, but they can equally well be interpreted to mean limited on-planet conflicts only.


Hans

I'm with Hans on this. But because the IN is not involved, does not mean that the subsector forces are going to turn the same blind eye. I think the original starship encounter tables help with this. They indicate that there is essentially no piracy in systems that have A or B starports; these are presumably, then, important enough in trade to warrant enough protection from subsector and local navies to make piracy a bad idea. I think the key is that what happens outside the extraterritoriality line STAYS outside the extraterritoriality line, unless it cause enough trouble for what's inside, especially trade and security.
 
Not quite. The texts you quote could be interpreted to include interstellar wars, but they can equally well be interpreted to mean limited on-planet conflicts only.


Hans

I'm not talking interplanetary conquest. But rather trade-wars, espionage, sabotage, financially backing rebels on another world who are more supportive of or your worlds agenda, taking out that free trader that's undercutting your profits while hes refueling in a back water and blaming it on pirates sort of thing, up to and including Military Aid and possibly interventions (sending your troops in to help a local government.) In other words covert operations, aggressive trade and negotiations. So long as things don't get so heated that it begins to look like an all out war, or you begin targeting a worlds infrastructure, the 3I usually turns a blind eye.
 
I'm not talking interplanetary conquest. But rather trade-wars, espionage, sabotage, financially backing rebels on another world who are more supportive of or your worlds agenda, taking out that free trader that's undercutting your profits while hes refueling in a back water and blaming it on pirates sort of thing, up to and including Military Aid and possibly interventions (sending your troops in to help a local government.) In other words covert operations, aggressive trade and negotiations. So long as things don't get so heated that it begins to look like an all out war, or you begin targeting a worlds infrastructure, the 3I usually turns a blind eye.
Ah, you mean the way later versions portray the Imperium?


Hans
 
Ah, you mean the way later versions portray the Imperium?


Hans

Almost, but not quite. Later versions of Traveller portray the 3I as a lot more meddlesome, a lot more involved in planetary politics and a lot closer to an "Empire" than what I'm aiming for.

Now that I think about it, there might be cases of interplanetary war within the boarders of the 3I, but they wouldn't be classic invasions and conquest. They would be more like hostile (sometimes very hostile) corporate takeovers. How hostile they can get, and how blatant they can be will all depend on what powers I give the 3I nobility (which has never been clearly defined), and how integrated the local 3I nobles are in planetary politics.

If they are a part of local politics, and rulers of a world, things will have to be subtle to avoid the Noble calling for Naval Intervention. If they are more along the line of advisers and "watch-dogs" on a world to make sure that certain laws are followed by the government, and that trade and 3I security as a whole are not disrupted, then things could get very bloody. Either way, it still makes the 3I nobility a force to be reckoned with.

Personally, I'm leaning more toward the later. Basically: Its not the 3I Nobles business to run a world in any way. Its the Nobles business to make sure the world doesn't violate the few laws the 3I requires, and that Imperial interests (Trade and Security of the 3I as a whole) are not jeopardized. In this case, if your argument with a neighboring systems government gets heated, just don't screw with the Imperial starport, or the local Nobles personal lands (both of which would be "Imperial" property) or things will go badly for you.
 
The thing to keep in mind is what benefits the member worlds get for joining the imperium.

The Bk4 and Bk5 texts imply one benefit that must be close to sacrosanct if the Imperium is to last - member governments being protected from other member governments as well as foreign ones.

Once a government goes on the path of conquest, it becomes a rival to the imperium, because it's a threat to the internal autonomy of the member worlds, and to the desire to remain in the imperium.

increased trade is the other benefit... but one that, at its core, isn't likely to be of much benefit to the major worlds, as they should generate almost all their needed and supportable trade in their own systems at far less expense. And it's a benefit not equally protected, as shown in the Bk2 encounter tables.
 
Cover your...

Cryton,

"Cover your *ss...", that's what descriptions of Imperial governance in LBB:4, LBB:5, TTA and all the others have always boiled down to "Cover your *ss..."

There's nothing really new being presented in this thread, you've merely reminding people of GDW's actual depictions - explicit, implied, or otherwise - of the 3I operates. It's something that needs to be routinely restated however, especially when a new burst of official, semi-official, or fan-based publications appear. Everyone, either consciously or unconsciously, keeps cramming the 3I into the 21st Century Western nation-state mold with all that that implies when the 3I is something else entirely, something much older, something very much human.

Everything any planetary government, megacorp, noble, or other mover & shaker does in the 3I depends on political cover. Don't have it and even previously legal activities are impossible. Have it and you can quite literally commit murder. Look at the so-called Imperial Rules of War for example.

In Aces and Eights, an Imperial regiment is destroyed in a sneak bio-war attack by the people who are now the planetary government. Are there Tigresses now orbiting the planet filling the skies with Marine jump troopers?

Hell no.

The planetary government in question got a mulligan this time because they had political cover at the imperial level. The whys and wherefores of that cover can only be guessed at, but it exists all the same because the people who launched the bio-war attack which killed Imperial servicemen aren't dancing on the end of a rope or rotting aboard a prison hulk.

In TTA, an Arekut agent nukes a scout/courier, the PCs engage in blatant piracy, rival corporations bomb warehouses killing employees, and the Imperium doesn't lift a finger because everyone has political cover. There are numerous examples all through canon too, ranging from worlds which have conquered/colonized others to decades-long planetary wars which must be effecting imperial taxes to outright assassinations.

When GDW wrote about "feudalism", the interlocking web of personal relationships and responsibilities central to feudalism was precisely what they were driving at. CYA is how "... a remote centralized government possessed of great industrial and technological might, but unable, due to the sheer distances and travel times involved, to exert total control at all levels everywhere within its star-spanning realm..." keeps the lid on. The Imperium simply cannot sweat the small stuff and nearly everything from an imperial viewpoint is small stuff.

If you've the political cover, you can do what you will. If you overstep your level of cover, the hammer will come down and it will be wielded either by your now-former political patron, their political patron, somebody wishing to curry favor with those two people, or someone wishing to curry favor with the political rivals of those two people. The Imperial nobility constantly weighs the costs of imperial intervention, covert or overt, against the benefits of the same. With an Imperium focused on what are almost always bigger fish to fry, those benefits has to be pretty substantial for any intervention to occur.

I read this once on the TML over a decade ago and it neatly describes just what the Imperium is all about: The Third Imperium is a strong as it has to be, as weak as it can risk to be, as good as it can, as evil as it must, and as blind as it chooses.

Thanks for starting such a thought provoking thread on a topic which everyone needs reminding about occasionally.


Regards,
Bill
 
Yep. that about covers it in a nutshell! Thanks!
 
There's nothing really new being presented in this thread, you've merely reminding people of GDW's actual depictions - explicit, implied, or otherwise - of the 3I operates.
(snip etc)

Brilliant mini-essay, Bill! (Might have to stash that in my personal Black Hole of Quality. ;) )

I read this once on the TML over a decade ago and it neatly describes just what the Imperium is all about: The Third Imperium is a strong as it has to be, as weak as it can risk to be, as good as it can, as evil as it must, and as blind as it chooses.

Great quote, one that I'm going to steal for my taglines page. Do you know who came up ith it?

Thanks for starting such a thought provoking thread on a topic which everyone needs reminding about occasionally.

Agreed!
 
As a counterpoint to Bill's litany of examples of corruption in the Imperium, let me point out that it suffers from a severe case of confirmation bias. The examples we have of abuse of office are legion because they make for interesting times, and interesting times make for adventure. How many Amber Zones would you expect to start with the PCs being told that there used to be a problem, but the duke sent in the marines a couple of weeks ago and put things right?

As an aside, the amber zone that tells of the destruction of the 1188th doesn't say why the people who arranged for that are still running things. Perhaps the 1188th Lift Infantry Brigade wasn't an Imperial lift infantry brigade? Or a brigade, for that matter (The 1188th's Intelligence Officer is a captain; that sounds more like a smallish mercenary unit than a full brigade). We don't even know where the world it took place on is located, but it definitely wasn't in the Spinward Marches (Name of the world is Malefolge).

Sure, if you have political cover you can get away with murder in the Imperium. But that's equally true for any country in space and time. The interesting question is how easy it is to get that cover.

The 99% of the Imperium that we don't really know anything about could be as corrupt as Bill's list indicates, or it could be a paragon of virtuous living. Or it could be something in between.


Hans
 
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As a counterpoint to Bill's litany of examples of corruption in the Imperium, let me point out that it suffers from a severe case of confirmation bias. The examples we have of abuse of office are legion because they make for interesting times, and interesting times make for adventure. How many Amber Zones would you expect to start with the PCs being told that there used to be a problem, but the duke sent in the marines a couple of weeks ago and put things right?

As an aside, the amber zone that tells of the destruction of the 1188th doesn't say why the people who arranged for that are still running things. Perhaps the 1188th Lift Infantry Brigade wasn't an Imperial lift infantry brigade? Or a brigade, for that matter (The 1188th's Intelligence Officer is a captain; that sounds more like a smallish mercenary unit than a full brigade). We don't even know where the world it took place on is located, but it definitely wasn't in the Spinward Marches (Name of the world is Malefolge).

Sure, if you have political cover you can get away with murder in the Imperium. But that's equally true for any country in space and time. The interesting question is how easy it is to get that cover.

The 99% of the Imperium that we don't really know anything about could be as corrupt as Bill's list indicates, or it could be a paragon of virtuous living. Or it could be something in between.


Hans

Here again‡, we have a sample. The sample is all we have to work with. So we extrapolate it. The sample shows 2 clearly corruption filled sectors - SM and SR - by virtue of the adventures set within. Or, more correctly, a few dozen corrupt worlds of sample with about a dozen or so uncorrupt worlds... the corrupt worlds are the majority of worlds presented. Confirmation bias or not, it's consistent with the non-GT evidence that the imperium really is a nasty corrupt place. And that the Imperium pays lip service to its ideals, ad when it finally does "take notice" it tends to go overboard.

‡ continuing a pattern from discussions on SJG...
 
As a counterpoint to Bill's litany of examples of corruption in the Imperium...


Labeling how the Imperium operates as "corruption" is an example of the 21st Century nation-state mind set I mentioned.

What happened on Maleforge or what happens during corporate trade wars isn't something the Imperial nobility enjoys, desires, or otherwise actively supports. What happens isn't a goal of Imperial policy, instead it's a consequence of the Imperium being "... a remote centralized government possessed of great industrial and technological might, but unable, due to the sheer distances and travel times involved, to exert total control at all levels everywhere within its star-spanning realm...".

The Imperium simply cannot cover all bets and has to pick it's spots, so the local nobility are usually the people who do the picking. They make their decisions based on precedence, what they know about the desires of their superiors, and whatever Imperial strengths, civil, military, financial, or otherwise, are readily available.

Bad things happen all the time, the Imperium cannot address them all, and so the nobility must pick their spots.

It seems I must also point out that "Cover Your *ss" implies both active and passive protection. You can cover your *ss by assuring a patron prevents any outside interference with your actions and you can also cover your *ss by selecting a time in which to act when outside interference cannot be brought to bear due to other distractions. The former involves corruption of a sort while the latter merely requires "... sheer distances and travel times..." which prevents the exertion of "... total control at all levels everywhere...".

GDW described governance on the Imperial level to be "feudal" and described it as a "rule of men and not laws". The Imperium is manifestly not a 21st Century nation-state structured on a post-1798 concept of territorial sovereignty. The Imperium harkens back to something older, something structured on a interlocking web of personal obligations and the concept of territorial supremacy. Sadly this is routinely forgotten and all too often descriptions of the Imperial government resemble nothing more than "Jersey City with Jump Drives".


Regards,
Bill
 
Here again‡, we have a sample. The sample is all we have to work with. So we extrapolate it. The sample shows 2 clearly corruption filled sectors - SM and SR - by virtue of the adventures set within. Or, more correctly, a few dozen corrupt worlds of sample with about a dozen or so uncorrupt worlds... the corrupt worlds are the majority of worlds presented. Confirmation bias or not, it's consistent with the non-GT evidence that the imperium really is a nasty corrupt place. And that the Imperium pays lip service to its ideals, ad when it finally does "take notice" it tends to go overboard.
That the sample is the only one we have to work with is irrelevant. What counts is whether or not it is representative. If it is, an extrapolation based on it will produce useful insight. If it isn't, an extrapolation will not produce useful insight. A sample that suffers from severe confirmation bias is not reliable. No amount of justification will make it reliable.

Oh, and 'non-GT evidence'? Does that mean that the sample is NOT all we have to work with? It rather sounds that way.


Hans
 
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