Armour Legality

[mike wightman]

Which is why you wear under-clothing armor. Most high-end ($$) modern concealable armor is designed to be worn under a business suit in such a way that most people will never know you're protected. I expect it will be the same in the far future, only a little more so. Of course, those only protect against center-of-mass attacks....

Oh I'm sure TL15 bullet proof long johns will be all the rage for adventuring types, it'll require that sort of TL advancement to cope with the extra fatigue, body cooling and general body odour issues you will get from wearing under clothing armour for 12+ hours per day

 

[McPerth]

OTOH, don't forget that MT:WBH tells us that tailored vacc suit is the standard in ship uniform for the scouts (and is more armored than cloth), and I guess for those used to it it may also be standard ship duty clothing after they leave the scouts. So, viewing people on it in the extrality zone of a starport (and even in downtown) will be not rarer than seeing someone in fatigue navy clothing in a port quarter in a city with naval base. And that is in a planet with favorable atmorphere, in one without it, more so.

Also MT:IE tells us that combat environement suit is the preferred type of cold weather clothing for people that has experience with it, and this time we're talking of true armor, not armored suit thought for other uses (as above). So, It should be not too rare to see people on it in cold planets (or planetary zones), if TL allow it.

 

[HG_B]

SciFi author Jerry Pournelle mentioned one time in one of his commentaries that there is a major SciFi Author that always carries around a "Alien Abduction Bag" which is a bag with all the things that he feels is minimally needed if he was ever abducted by aliens...

Last time I talked with him he was no longer carrying it. Got heavy with age I guess.

 

[Greylond]

Heh, funny.

 

[Enoki]

Ahh, but whose everyday clothing do you style it on?

If you want to blend in with the locals yo have to dress like the locals.

If you know ahead of time you get stuff made to blend in if that is necessary. If not, just wear what you would anyway. But, given the state of body armor today I can't see why a company with far better technology (something stronger than spider silk?) couldn't make a fashionable line of clothing that is weapon 'resistant' if not fully proof against. It might be pricey however... (hint: One way of discouraging players from getting it if you are so inclined)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Oh I'm sure TL15 bullet proof long johns will be all the rage for adventuring types, it'll require that sort of TL advancement to cope with the extra fatigue, body cooling and general body odour issues you will get from wearing under clothing armour for 12+ hours per day

We are talking Scouts for a lot of these adventurers, though, Mike. I'm thinking odor* issues are low priority.

On a serious note, though, a lot of people who take their personal safety very seriously do wear under-clothing armor - sometimes all day (like some police officers). Yes, it can be fatiguing, and a good ref would make that a factor for those PCs choosing to indulge. But, for some folks, the drawbacks would be something they simply lived with.

* You misspelled the word for "smelly", Mike. Just like that misspelling of "armor".

 

[McPerth]

What's to stop players suiting up in Combat Armour whenever they venture off ship?

About CA and MD, another thing that will discourage wearing it indiscriminately is its sheer bulk. It's difficult to cross a simple door while wearing it, to give you an example

 

[Darkwing]

Yes, it goes into all of that. I'm finding that MgT books cover the whole spectrum from Really Good, to Really Bad. That part of the CSC is, IMO, one of the better parts.

I need to check that out, then.

One of the fun parts of that system is that it says that even IF a character is perfectly legal to carry/use something, the local laws might just forbid it outside of the Starport. To me that is a license to make for an interesting social aspect of an adventure...

I've had the party traipsing halfway through a station to bribe someone for a permit they couldn't legally get, nervous as all get out because they were unarmed. Same adventure, the captain took an enormous model gun from a blow-hard bragging in a bar about his fictitious exploits. After he broke it and the blow-hard huffed off, the party gave it to the Kokasha who got drunk from fumes off of condemned rocket juice in the retiree bar. He then used it to beat a living stone wall (with IQ to match) in the next bar. Local bully Quint thought the child-sized Kokasha Vargr accountant (named Ageki) was a short-shuttle case and tried to intimidate him. Ageki was still just drunk enough to respond. The carbine-length barrel propelled him up to Quint's face, and the sharp edges of the grip sliced Quint's cheek and eye nicely. Yes, Ageki got a Charisma bonus for that one. But that also showed the players that real guns aren't always as dangerous as toys, and going unarmed isn't always that bad.

 

[Greylond]

Even if you don't use the MgT system of doing things, the text that goes along with it makes you think about the issue and is a good jumping off point for figuring out your own system.

There's been some really good ideas in this thread also...

 

[Fritz_Brown]

About CA and MD, another thing that will discourage wearin it indiscriminately is its sheer bulk. It's difficult to cross a simple door while wearing it, to give you an example

It can also be a great point when you ask the player how the PC is going to drink his beer in the bar when he's wearing CA. And, no, I do *not* allow topping off the water reservoir in the suit externally. Can you imagine what an enemy could do with that? :smirk: He could contaminate your water supply so easily! Sure, you could put it in your canteen and use the supplied filter tube - assuming it doesn't filter out alcohol. Oh yes, you can make the life of the gun bunny/munchkin really difficult if they insist. :devil:

 

[SanDragon]

SciFi author Jerry Pournelle mentioned one time in one of his commentaries that there is a major SciFi Author that always carries around a "Alien Abduction Bag" which is a bag with all the things that he feels is minimally needed if he was ever abducted by aliens...

All you need is a towel.

Please consult your Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy should you require elaboration.

 

[sabredog]

I have a general rule IMTU: wearing heavy armor is asking for trouble because it looks like you are looking for trouble. The other guys always have at least what the players do in that regard, and usually better. And local law enforcement gets jumpy when they see guys wearing combat armor standing in line at the local Starbucks.

So the bottom line is that unless the players want to spend more time getting hassled by the local LE, and/or getting shot at by all sorts of types, they should keep it toned down. I don't worry about all the usual arguments about how tiring it is, or awkward when using the restroom at the burger joint...I just shoot at them and let the smoking hole left by the SWAT PGMP sniper make my point.

This sort of thing, among others is also why I give all new players a short handout that explains the basic rules of my TU. Sort of a common knowledge guide. If someone then says they are going to wear heavy armor when heading into town and it isn't appropriate I shake my dice menacingly. Sort of like a rattler.

 

[Timerover51]

Legality Class covers weapons, but how about armour? What's to stop players suiting up in Combat Armour whenever they venture off ship? Forces plot contrivances and/or constant ACR-toting adversaries!!

If the players exit their ship in Combat Armor (or, if Queen's English speaking, armour), I would assume that the first starport employee to see them would immediate trigger the Emergency Alert Siren and report a pirate raid on the facility. The Starport Authority immediately activates its security forces, dispatches its SWAT team (if it has one), alerts any adjoining Naval and/or Scouts base, and also alerts the planetary authorities to the assumed assault.

As military forces converge on the suspected raiders, action is immediately taken to neutralize the ship from with the characters disembarked, with the aim of gaining control of it so that it may not take off again, and if necessary disabling it by direct attack. Precision shaped charges are used to blast holes in the hull, rendering in no longer air tight and fuel tanks no longer able to contain fuel.

The players wearing Combat Armor as assumed to be raiders, and engaged immediately by the security and military forces, with no attempt at parley, and unless they immediately surrender, they will be killed. If they surrender, they will be treated and tried as piratical raiders, and executed by the local planetary authorities, unless they can convince them of the players complete stupidity. That only keeps them from being executed, but they will be imprisoned for extended terms, and all possessions of theirs seized to recover the costs of the military operation.

 

[aramis]

If the players exit their ship in Combat Armor (or, if Queen's English speaking, armour), I would assume that the first starport employee to see them would immediate trigger the Emergency Alert Siren and report a pirate raid on the facility. The Starport Authority immediately activates its security forces, dispatches its SWAT team (if it has one), alerts any adjoining Naval and/or Scouts base, and also alerts the planetary authorities to the assumed assault.

First time it's an unarmed nobleman he does this to, he's likely as not both out of a job and blacklisted. If not getting shot by a firing squad following a show trial for murder by deception, or by same said marines "resisting arrest" for fraudulent emergency alerts.

At a distance, it's a vacc suit. Sure, it's an armored vacc suit, but it's still, at the end of the day, a vac suit, and starports are canonically LL3. Anything short of PGMP's and explosives is legal for open carry.

Further, Battledress is ideal for engineers - highly protective against many forms of engineering mishap, plus increased carrying capacity.

And its canonical that people can wear armor, even combat armor, in starports pretty much unhindered. And carry firearms, and blades, and such - provided they aren't carrying them at the ready.

 

[atpollard]

I liked the thought that wearing armor will increase the attention paid to the character by local law enforcement (outside the starport - inside the starport, I agree 100% with Aramis ... LL3 is LL3).

Wearing a suit of full tactical body armor is not illegal in any US cities that I am aware of, but one should expect to spend a lot of time answering questions from police who clearly have cause to stop you and ask lots of questions.

 

[aramis]

I liked the thought that wearing armor will increase the attention paid to the character by local law enforcement (outside the starport - inside the starport, I agree 100% with Aramis ... LL3 is LL3).

Wearing a suit of full tactical body armor is not illegal in any US cities that I am aware of, but one should expect to spend a lot of time answering questions from police who clearly have cause to stop you and ask lots of questions.

Several states require permits to purchase it.

 

[Timerover51]

First time it's an unarmed nobleman he does this to, he's likely as not both out of a job and blacklisted. If not getting shot by a firing squad following a show trial for murder by deception, or by same said marines "resisting arrest" for fraudulent emergency alerts.

At a distance, it's a vacc suit. Sure, it's an armored vacc suit, but it's still, at the end of the day, a vac suit, and starports are canonically LL3. Anything short of PGMP's and explosives is legal for open carry.

Further, Battledress is ideal for engineers - highly protective against many forms of engineering mishap, plus increased carrying capacity.

And its canonical that people can wear armor, even combat armor, in starports pretty much unhindered. And carry firearms, and blades, and such - provided they aren't carrying them at the ready.

Then how I run my starports is definitely not according to the standard rules set.

No armor or weapons without a permit issued by the Starport Authority, and good only within the starport.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Even within a starport I'd think how a group is equipped and the type of response they'd get would vary quite a bit from location to location. One key variable being the starport class.

I'd think it not uncommon at a class D or lower starport to have your people armed and armored with the best you have available to escort your valuable cargo to the buyer.

Class D Starports see enough trade to make a permanent security detail a necessity. This is unlikely to comprise more than two officers on duty at any one time, however.

You can't count on the starport security to handle more than

Rarely do these officers have to deal with anything more serious than petty theft or small-time smugglers.

Their job is general pretty boring and as long as you look like you are going about your business I doubt they'd do more than ask if they can be of assistance - and at the same time it allows them to make sure you are on the level.

In such locals, I'd keep someone armed and armored at the ship too just in case.

I'd not expect

If the players exit their ship in Combat Armor (or, if Queen's English speaking, armour), I would assume that the first starport employee to see them would immediate trigger the Emergency Alert Siren and report a pirate raid on the facility. The Starport Authority immediately activates its security forces, dispatches its SWAT team (if it has one), alerts any adjoining Naval and/or Scouts base, and also alerts the planetary authorities to the assumed assault.

unless you are bypassing customs where

if anyone is clearly in breach of Starport regulations – or simply looks suspicious – they are picked-up as they leave their ship and taken for further questioning.

Now at a class A starport where there is a full security presence, someone might consider heavily armored folk looking suspicious.

 

[Timerover51]

Cosmic Gamer, I do not have nor do I expect to get Mongoose Traveller, so comments from that source are not exactly relevant to me.

At Class D and E starports, I can see a ship taking extra security measures, but not at Class A and B ports.

 

[rancke]

Cosmic Gamer, I do not have nor do I expect to get Mongoose Traveller, so comments from that source are not exactly relevant to me.

It is relevant to any discussion about the OTU, though. And unless someone is posting in the IMTU forum or the version-specific forums, the default assumption is that he is arguing about our common frame of reference, the setting that we share in order for arguments to have a shot at being useful.

When it becomes clear to me that someone is arguing about his own subset of Traveller, I tend to lose interest in the debate (There are exceptions, of course).


Hans

--------------------
The Bible has one kind of canon.
Traveller has guidelines.
The OTU has a different kind of canon.