• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

Commercial starship lifeboat requirements

Status
Not open for further replies.
...
My concern here would probably be that if you were heading from say a planet like Earth to a planet like Jupiter and something goes wrong at the midpoint switchover from accelerating to increase your velocity to accelerating in the opposite direction to decrease your velocity, such that the maneuver drive or power plant fails preventing a change to your acceleration (ie, you are now no longer accelerating in any direction and instead just continuing along your current velocity vector) this can lead to your heading outbound from the system at a fairly high speed. ...

2G scout heads for the local gas giant, 600 million kilometers off. 48 hours later, his drives fail at turnaround. V=AT=20*172800=3456000 m/s, 3456 kps. He's coasting from that point forward, at an admittedly high velocity.

300 million klicks back, the starport recieves the distress call and a 6G ship's boat launches on a rescue mission. s=1/2at^2 >>> t=sqrt(2s/a); t=sqrt(600,000,000,000/60)=~100,000s=~27.8 hours. A little over a day after the distress call, the boat is already doing 6000 kps, has passed the point where the scout originally failed, and is covering almost 2 klicks for every one the coasting scout is covering as he tries to catch up to the moving scout. The scout is 345,600,000 kilometers away.

My math isn't actually up to calculating a matching course to a moving target, but you can see from the numbers so far that the boat should catch the scout up within roughly 3 days of the distress call going out. Getting turned around and back home might take another week or more, but once the intercept's completed they've got time.

...For adventuring ship's and/or ship's under charter by a Patron etc such a situation seems fairly possible to me. ...

The adventurer's ship will be whatever he can get his hands on. The patron's ship will either likewise be some off-the-shelf design or, if he's rich enough, will be designed to his specifications. Neither case tells us much about the norms of ship design.

...If stuff like bridges and basic controls, computers, power plants, maneuver drives, jump drives and some defensive stuff like screens do not have an intrinsic redundancy to them unless you specifically specify that the design is carrying either a backup system or an oversized system to allow the system to still meet requirements if damaged, then I'm left wondering whether other systems like basic life support, air handling, water handling, grav plates and such would have any more redundancy than the other systems....

Why?

System A is identified as at risk of damage in combat. Rules permit a duplicate system A to be carried to provide a backup in case of failure.

System B is identified as not at risk of damage in combat. Maybe it's like the internet - a large number of separate and distinct systems such that taking out a few doesn't really compromise the whole. Maybe something else; we don't know. We do know redundancy is not offered despite mesons and nukes going off, and yet crews continue to have, for example, inertial dampers even after a ship is all but wrecked.

And this leaves you wondering whether system B has any more redundancy than system A?? Because, to me, this tells me that system B already has a very effective level of redundancy. If they do not feel the need to offer an option for redundancy, then the system is either very resistant to failure or consists of many small distinct units so that failure here and there doesn't compromise the overall function.
 
... what is the cooling system made of? Is it toxic? Is is superheated? Is it irradiated from exposure to all those high energy particles and Gamma rays that it absorbs? How much of those tons of PP are dangerous coolant? On a fission reactor, the answer is YES and A LOT. On a fusion reactor - who knows?
No one knows. My preferred answer is a subspace heat sink. You open a portal into subspace (which is something different from jumpspace -- possibly the medium that thrusters thrust against) and have the heat go into subspace where it dissipoates through convection rather than radiation.


Hans
 
Therein lies the rub.
Engineering must be kept separate from the rest of he ship, even though combat says nothing happens when you break it.

The rules give almost no reason for a lifeboat, while several small craft are specifically touted for their utility as a lifeboat.

Another Traveller paradox.

Not really. There's nothing unreasonable in people who won't spend several million extra credits and the tonnage a lifeboat would take up on a remote possibility that they might need it one day but who nevertheless wouldn't mind having a ship's boat with the secondary purpose of serving as a lifeboat if they have to have one for some primary purpose anyway.

As I argued in the sister thread, "it's not that there is NEVER going to be a situation where leaving a spaceship in a ship's boat is a good idea. The question is, is the likelihood of such a situation cropping up high enough to warrant the costs of carrying special lifeboats along solely in case one does?"


Hans
 
Last edited:
I don't think anyone has made better than a weak-to-the-point-of-trivial case for dedicated lifeboats, Hans.

Dedicated subcraft have plenty of utility of their own besides self-rescue and evacuation, tho' they can be excellent for both. The problem is that the margins (especially in CT) are thin enough that a subcraft cuts profits severely unless loaded with cargo, and profits are slim enough on that beast. Given the "standard rates," there is no economic reason for subcraft to be carried. If mandated, you instead rip out the staterooms until not needed, or avoid the places where they are required.

Luxury liners may be an exception, but canon also tells us that luxury liners can charge more, tho' the one we're shown doesn't. (And at KCr10 per stateroom for J3...). But note that its KCr12 deficit can be made up for by redesign with 5 staterooms in place of the 20Td Launch; even filling at mid, that's a net KCr5.5 each*, and she only needs 3 to break even.

In other words, it's folly to carry the subcraft.

*setting aside the absurdity of CT pricing being flat for J4+, it's still profitable in pure cargo and in passenger modes at J1-J3, tho' only just for J3. It's KCr8 from the passenger, KCr2 for LS, and maintenance and stateroom share eat another chunk.
 
I don't think anyone has made better than a weak-to-the-point-of-trivial case for dedicated lifeboats, Hans. ...

Modifying slightly: I don't think anyone has made better than a weak-to-the-point-of-trivial case for a canon-based need for dedicated lifeboats for merchants.

Conversely: canon, or more accurately errata, does offer us a dedicated lifeboat - well, lifepod: the EARC. Canon also offers us at least one example of a (possibly dual-use) lifeboat in Marooned, in the context of a merchant plying a reasonably civilized route, no less - though apparently some member of the crew shared our opinion about the lack of need for a lifeboat so much that he or she felt no qualm in absconding with (and likely selling off) a large portion of the boat's survival kits and leaving the boat almost entirely unfueled. (Okay, that was a very transparently contrived situation, but it's still canon.)

Perhaps most important for this discussion: canon does not foreclose the possibility of a need for a dedicated lifeboat. Descriptions of the details of how systems work and the ways they might break down are vague to entirely absent in CT.

CT has always left plenty of room for the imaginations of individual gamemasters to run wild in, and this is one of those areas where there is lots of room for individual preference. If you want dedicated lifeboats, you're pretty free to invent an excuse for them without stepping on canon's toes: yes indeedy, the ship's designers unwisely used the infamous "plasma" so badly overused in Star Trek, and if you don't get everyone off, the plasma leaking from that mysterious conduit that has no business running through the living section is going to turn the hapless passengers into Plasma Zombies! Or maybe just dissolve their organic elements and leave behind the Borg-bits. ;)

Or, with a little less tongue in cheek, perhaps that mysterious maneuver drive that seems capable of driving the ship at precisely 1G no matter how much or how little mass happens to be in the cargo bay has some space-twisting mechanism that can go boom in a big nasty way if it breaks the wrong way.

By the same token, if you don't want them, you are likewise free to write them off entirely without doing injury to canon. There is, after all, nothing in canon suggesting a need for the things outside of maybe combat or exploration.
 
I don't think anyone has made better than a weak-to-the-point-of-trivial case for dedicated lifeboats, Hans.

....

Hi,

I don't believe the argument is for a "dedicated" lifeboat. I believe that the argument is for whether ships should carry some form of lifeboat/lifepod or rescues craft apparatus. If that lifeboat/lifepod or rescue craft takes the shape of some form of ship's boat, launch or some other small craft, that would be one potential option. And, looking through some existing adventures and such it appears that such use is part of canon.

The big questions for me are a) whether using existing small craft is the best overall solution for all ships, b) whether existing small craft provide for most/all the possible situations that might be encountered and c) whether something can be done for vessels where existing small craft may be too big or in some other ways overkill for their needs.

When you look at a dedicated passenger liner for example, do the existing small craft that it might carry provide for enough "lift capacity" for all passengers in the event of an emergency? Would a combination of some conventional small craft and some other dedicated "rescue craft' (beyond just single-person "rescue balls") possibly especially fitted with parachutes and ablative shielding etc (similar to an EARC) be better? For really small ships like Scout/Couriers, Seekers, and Free Traders is there something other than a dedicated "ship's boat' that might fill the need between it and an air/raft that could provide for support of all passengers and crew in the event of an emergency?

In the end then, to me the question doesn't really seem to be "should life boats exist" because I believe that they already do in some form. Rather, to me the question(s) seem to be "is what currently exists good enough for all potential contingencies" and "are there other additional options to explore".
 
...The adventurer's ship will be whatever he can get his hands on. The patron's ship will either likewise be some off-the-shelf design or, if he's rich enough, will be designed to his specifications. Neither case tells us much about the norms of ship design.

Hi,

I believe that my comment was in response to a response by you on travelling to uninhabited or sparsely inhabited systems. I believe either you or someone else had commented that a merchant ship would not likely call on such a system, unless just passing through, while my comment was along the lines that if you are an adventurer or under 'charter' by some patron whatever adventure that you are on may call for entering or passing through such a system in search of whatever "quest' that you are on, etc. (Or in other words, buying an selling cargo isn't the only reason ships will be travelling about, etc).


...Why?

System A is identified as at risk of damage in combat. Rules permit a duplicate system A to be carried to provide a backup in case of failure.

System B is identified as not at risk of damage in combat. Maybe it's like the internet - a large number of separate and distinct systems such that taking out a few doesn't really compromise the whole. Maybe something else; we don't know. We do know redundancy is not offered despite mesons and nukes going off, and yet crews continue to have, for example, inertial dampers even after a ship is all but wrecked.

And this leaves you wondering whether system B has any more redundancy than system A?? Because, to me, this tells me that system B already has a very effective level of redundancy. If they do not feel the need to offer an option for redundancy, then the system is either very resistant to failure or consists of many small distinct units so that failure here and there doesn't compromise the overall function.

Looking through MT rules the authors do make note of;

"A craft suffering penetration is no longer sealed and is subject to explosive decompression in a vacuum or trace atmosphere, poisonous contamination in an exotic or corrosive atmosphere, or death of its occupants in an insidious atmosphere."

Although I've only done a quick check of the rest of the rules (I have only my hard copy and not my electronic copy handy) I don't see any specific reference to hull segregation, back up/redundant life support systems or stuff like that base on this quick scan.

As for the internet and computer networks in general, I still occasionally loose my service (both at home and at work) even with the way they are configured.
 
Although I've only done a quick check of the rest of the rules (I have only my hard copy and not my electronic copy handy) I don't see any specific reference to hull segregation, back up/redundant life support systems or stuff like that base on this quick scan.

Well, if some yard was stupid enough to build a ship without multiple airtight sections this would be a disaster in the making. The question is, what builder would be that stupid?
 
In CT - all editions - ships were construct with 2 compartments.

An engineering compartment for drives and a main compartment for everything else.
 
In CT - all editions - ships were construct with 2 compartments.

An engineering compartment for drives and a main compartment for everything else.

3 actually, tho the third was less well defined: fuel has to be a separate compartment from the occupied space.

Every deckplan, however, shows at least 4...
 
Not by the rules as written - the size of the compartments was listed for the standard hulls, there are 2: main and engineering.
Custom hulls could define their own compartment sizes, but only engines are allowed in the engineering compartment.

Fuel tankage has to go in the main compartment (since only engines are allowed in the engineering compartment) which is explicitly stated in the hull section.

I agree that fuel tankage should be compartmentalised, and the bridge makes an obvious 4th.

Shame there were never any rules for number of bulkheads allowed ;)

Technically a ship architect could just partition every area of the ship with bulkheads.

Bridge, passenger staterooms, fuel tankage, crew staterooms, cargo compartment(s), common area(s), vehicle bay(s), low berth vault - that sort of thing.
 
Shame there were never any rules for number of bulkheads allowed ;)

Technically a ship architect could just partition every area of the ship with bulkheads.

Bridge, passenger staterooms, fuel tankage, crew staterooms, cargo compartment(s), common area(s), vehicle bay(s), low berth vault - that sort of thing.

There's no real need for hard/fast rules on this. It is trivial, during the design process, to designate areas to be separated into airtight sections. How many sinks in a bathroom? One can get quite ridiculous in trying to define every common sense thing in a rule set.
 
Last edited:
One strong bulkhead I've always considered essential is the one between crew country and passenger country. ;)


Hans
 
...I don't believe the argument is for a "dedicated" lifeboat. I believe that the argument is for whether ships should carry some form of lifeboat/lifepod or rescues craft apparatus. ...

Hi,

I believe that my comment was in response to a response by you on travelling to uninhabited or sparsely inhabited systems. I believe either you or someone else had commented that a merchant ship would not likely call on such a system, unless just passing through, while my comment was along the lines that if you are an adventurer or under 'charter' by some patron whatever adventure that you are on may call for entering or passing through such a system in search of whatever "quest' that you are on, etc. ...

As you yourself point out, the discussion has been about whether ships should carry some form of lifeboat/lifepod/etc. Manufacturers will make decisions based on the needs of the buyer: a "standard" design is going to reflect "standard" needs. One would not put features in the "standard" design that serve only the occasional adventurer while imposing unwanted burdens on the larger majority of users. If some patron needs a ship with lifeboats, the manufacturer will be only too happy to design a ship with lifeboats, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer builds merchant ships in general around the idea that some adventurer's going to decide to take the ship off the usual trade routes. Car manufacturers don't design all cars to be capable of off-roading; if you want to take a car off-road, you buy one specifically designed for off-road travel or you take your chances with the one you own.

As I pointed out, there's considerable room in the game for individual preference. If you want standard merchant designs to need lifepods or even lifeboats - dedicated or multirole - then you as gamemaster can invent IMTU rationales to support the need for lifepods and lifeboats on merchant designs. However, the behavior of the occasional adventurer or patron does not serve as adequate pretext for imposing something in a standard design that reduces the profits of everyone else.

Note that the CT standard-design yacht and and standard-design free trader are of the same size; the yacht is unstreamlined and carries a boat, the free trader is streamlined and does not. The standard-design safari ship is streamlined but includes "a lifeboat and air/raft ... for use in emergencies, and for expeditions." Different markets, different standard designs. Nothing stops a merchant corporation from ordering up a free trader with a boat - he can even use the standard hull; he just has to pay the naval architect to make a free trader design that incorporates a boat. Or maybe buy himself a boat that can fit through the cargo bay doors and have part of the bay retrofitted to serve as a boat dock; the subsidized liner is well-suited to that kind of after-construction modification.

...Looking through MT rules the authors do make note of;

"A craft suffering penetration is no longer sealed and is subject to explosive decompression in a vacuum or trace atmosphere, poisonous contamination in an exotic or corrosive atmosphere, or death of its occupants in an insidious atmosphere."

Although I've only done a quick check of the rest of the rules (I have only my hard copy and not my electronic copy handy) I don't see any specific reference to hull segregation, back up/redundant life support systems or stuff like that base on this quick scan.

Nope, the only place you'll find reference to hull segregation is in the deckplans, and it is for you as gamemaster to reconcile the discrepancy between different canon sources in ways that serve your game and your players. Canon is, after all, infamous for throwing such conflicts at us. As to redundant life support systems - well, if you as gamemaster are really, really eager to take out the entire life support system and force everyone to lifeboats despite having bulkheads that establish multiple distinct sections, then you have fun with that. Me, I wouldn't be surprised to see a player whip out a deckplan and point out the lack of logic in such a decision.

As for the internet and computer networks in general, I still occasionally loose my service (both at home and at work) even with the way they are configured.

And you as a passenger or crewman may find yourself in a section suffering explosive decompression, or may find a chunk of hall corridor in which the grav plates have failed. However, the ship as a whole will continue to function.

Or not: if you're really, really eager to take out the ship's entire floor plate grav system because someone failed a task roll, or subject every deck of a Broadsword to vacuum because the computer took a laser hit, have fun. No specific rule says you can't, and I'm sure your players will be very - amused.
 
As you yourself point out, the discussion has been about whether ships should carry some form of lifeboat/lifepod/etc. Manufacturers will make decisions based on the needs of the buyer: a "standard" design is going to reflect "standard" needs. One would not put features in the "standard" design that serve only the occasional adventurer while imposing unwanted burdens on the larger majority of users. If some patron needs a ship with lifeboats, the manufacturer will be only too happy to design a ship with lifeboats, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer builds merchant ships in general around the idea that some adventurer's going to decide to take the ship off the usual trade routes. Car manufacturers don't design all cars to be capable of off-roading; if you want to take a car off-road, you buy one specifically designed for off-road travel or you take your chances with the one you own.

As I pointed out, there's considerable room in the game for individual preference. If you want standard merchant designs to need lifepods or even lifeboats - dedicated or multirole - then you as gamemaster can invent IMTU rationales to support the need for lifepods and lifeboats on merchant designs. However, the behavior of the occasional adventurer or patron does not serve as adequate pretext for imposing something in a standard design that reduces the profits of everyone else.

Note that the CT standard-design yacht and and standard-design free trader are of the same size; the yacht is unstreamlined and carries a boat, the free trader is streamlined and does not. The standard-design safari ship is streamlined but includes "a lifeboat and air/raft ... for use in emergencies, and for expeditions." Different markets, different standard designs. Nothing stops a merchant corporation from ordering up a free trader with a boat - he can even use the standard hull; he just has to pay the naval architect to make a free trader design that incorporates a boat. Or maybe buy himself a boat that can fit through the cargo bay doors and have part of the bay retrofitted to serve as a boat dock; the subsidized liner is well-suited to that kind of after-construction modification.

Hi,

That's pretty much what my thoughts have been all along. I think the main difference is in who/which ships might need some sort of lifeboat/lifepod etc.

To me, I would think that any ship that may regularly try and skim fuel from a Gas Giant may find itself in a risky situation where either the turbulence from operating in the upper atmosphere of such a world, the possibility of encountering strong wind shears and/or other "storm' related weather, he possibility of impacting some other object in the "clouds" and other such issues would probably leave me wanting to have some form of emergency escape mechanism so that if for instance the fuel processor, power plant, maneuver drives, windscreens, major air locks/hull openings, and/or some component of the above fails you aren't necessarily left without power or control will in the "relatively denser than space' atmosphere subject to the resistance and drag of the atmosphere and the pull of the gravity, potentially being pulled further and further into the planet's atmosphere.

In addition to that, I'd think if I were on a ship in the TNE era, some form of emergency escape from the main ship (in terms of a lifeboat or lifepod etc) would be highly desirable, not just because of the risk that some form of "super computer hacker" (in the guise of a sentient computer virus, or whatever it was) may try and take over the main ship, but also because from what I have read about the period it appears to have been a period of possible economic and technological contraction where the remaining 'safe' areas sometimes operated ships where the technological base to support the ships either had or was in the process of eroding away leaving you potentially with systems that were hard, if not near impossible, to fully maintain.

Based on the above, it would also seem to me that operations at any point in time where there may have been a bit of "contraction' on the part of the major powers )either economically or in some other form) would likely also be a period in time where I would want some for of backup on my ship. this could include periods during/between many of the Interstellar Wars between Terra and the 1st Imperium, the period leading up to and after the fall of the 2nd Imperium, a couple different times during the 3rd Imperium and definitely during the Civil War period of the 3rd Imperium.

Based on the above, to be honest I guess I would also probably add any major period of war during these times as well as possibly even the periods immediately after such wars where economic contraction may occur as the major players recover from the impact of the wars and some services etc get cut and/or other cutbacks may get made.

In addition to all the above, I'd also think that any ship that may spend a fair bit of time away from heavily populated space, especially research ships and the like may also be good candidates for including some form of backup (like a lifeboat or lifepod - or a ship's boat acting as a lifeboat/lifepod etc) that wouldn't require waiting for help from someone else.

To this I'd also include ships which carry a large number of passengers such a long liners (which other have alluded to previously) plus possibly Naval Hospital Ships and Depot/Repair ship and possibly even troop transports (just because the possibility of loss of life can be so high in the event of something going wrong).

Other possible candidate for some sort of backup rescue ability (such as lifeboats/lifepods could also include Colony Ships (which, if transporting a lot of people in low berths, could potentially be constructed so that its actually made up of a lot of smaller separated an self contained subsections - similar to Battle Riders on a Transport - which could function as separate large lifeboats/lifepods in the event that something happens to the main vessel.

Livestock transports, and in fact any vessel that may carry a lot of animals (domesticated or not) may also be a good candidate especially since having a lot of animals confined in one place often makes for a fertile setting for the spread of diseases, and there are well documented cases that even for diseases not normally known to affect mankind there is a possibility of them 'jumping species' especially if given a strong foothold to incubate and potentially mutate (see for instance this link on Zoonosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis ).

In addition to those type cases I think the addition of a small craft to the already streamlined Safari Ship also makes sense to me since the small boat can also be used as a lifeboat in the event that either a "trophy" escapes or is found to have been infected with something that has since potentially spread throughout the main ship's life support system.

...Nope, the only place you'll find reference to hull segregation is in the deckplans, and it is for you as gamemaster to reconcile the discrepancy between different canon sources in ways that serve your game and your players. Canon is, after all, infamous for throwing such conflicts at us. As to redundant life support systems - well, if you as gamemaster are really, really eager to take out the entire life support system and force everyone to lifeboats despite having bulkheads that establish multiple distinct sections, then you have fun with that. Me, I wouldn't be surprised to see a player whip out a deckplan and point out the lack of logic in such a decision....

As I've noted before I think for different ship types and/or different situations different solutions may work best and in some cases a "safe" area may be that solution. However, my two main concerns are that a) from what I've seen most deckplans really don't show such a design philosophy and b) not all areas of known space may be quite as developed as the Core or other areas, and as such it may in fact be that (at least in some milieus etc) that being reliant on outside assistance in the event of an emergency (in the form of waiting onboard your stricken ship for someone to come to your rescue may in fact not be the best solution in non-Core related areas and/or areas away from major hubs etc. As such, it may well be that in an Imperium of 11,000 system several hundred or even several thousand may be highly developed and such but for travel to and from the remaining majority of the systems may not be so, especially at different periods in history.

...And you as a passenger or crewman may find yourself in a section suffering explosive decompression, or may find a chunk of hall corridor in which the grav plates have failed. However, the ship as a whole will continue to function....

Not necessarily. History is replete with examples of how a failure of one system or localized damage in one location can have an impact on other systems through out your vessel, aircraft, or whatever, and as such I would not at all be surprised if starships would be the same. for example I believe that there have been a couple incidents with the DC-10 aircraft where damage to one of the engines resulted in the loss of all hydraulic systems throughout the aircraft, even though it had been the design intent of the aircraft that the hydraulics be fairly separated to try and prevent such an incident fro happening ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-10 ).
 
PS to the above

...Or not: if you're really, really eager to take out the ship's entire floor plate grav system because someone failed a task roll, or subject every deck of a Broadsword to vacuum because the computer took a laser hit, have fun. No specific rule says you can't, and I'm sure your players will be very - amused.

I never said anything about venting to vacuum due to a computer hit, but the loss of grav plating because of a failed task toll really would be the kind of thing I would probably expect to see, if for instance a player were trying either a hasty task and/or something maybe a bit above his abilities while working on the grav plate system.

An alternate thought that crossed my mind earlier when thinking about possible failure events could be something along the lines of what might happen if you and your players had bought a small used ship and were trying fuel skimming from a gas giant. I know different versions of Traveller handle used ships differently and I think (?) Mongoose even has some rules for 'quirks' and such while I think (?) TNE may have introduced some additional stuff for dealing with operating ships and maintenance and such during the economic hard times portrayed in the post Rebellion setting etc.

Anyway, in the situation above, if the ship is relatively small I'd also suspect the crew to be so also. Because of the weather patterns and such that seem to be present on at least some of the Gas Giants in our Solar I wouldn't be surprised if there may be a fair bit of turbulence, wind shears and other weather related effects. As such to me both piloting the ship and maintaining the power plant, drives and "fuel purifier" may be challenging tasks and could result in a failure, especially if the ship and its systems are aged etc, not to mention the possibility of maybe even colliding with something hidden 'in the clouds".

The failure of perhaps the ship's main bridge viewport, the cargo bay doors or main airlock, the "fuel purifier", power plant or maneuvering drives maybe isn't something that may be considered out of the realm of happening in such a situation, especially for an older ship that you may have bought "used" or which has been in service for several decades.

In these type situations I suspect that it may be a very big problem for the crew to try and first cope with the immediate situation and then restore systems and/or even have to reboot control systems etc especially since each crewmember may have different immediate tasks at hand to deal with.

In the event of a windscreen failure (due to collision or structural issues etc) even if there are emergency mechanisms to drop 'blast screens/doors" to seal that damage the main pilot may be either injured or incapacitated and require immediate medical assistance and the vessel may have veered off course. At some point (fairly quickly?) another crew member will likely have to take over piloting duties and try to return the vessel to a safe course while dealing with any collateral damage to the other systems in the damaged bridge, provided that the collateral damage has not taken down the computers and/or other major systems.

All along the way I would expect several task roles needing to be made, some of them hasty and some of them very challenging for the "back up' pilot as well as the medic and other crew members and I could easily see how either failed rolls and/or rolls with less than fully effective results could potentially make the situation worse (such a the possibility ofth ship having veered so far off course so as to put it deeper into the atmosphere and potentially in even more danger etc). At some point I could possibly see that if the conditions aren't righted quickly enough abandoning the ship and taking to some form of lifeboat/lifepods or a ship's boat which could operate as a lifeboat may end up being the only viable solution to try and escape.

Alternately, say if the ship's "fuel processor" fails while skimming I could see the possibility of the engine room being flooded as well as the potential loss of main power. If the ship's engineer were in the engine room he/she could be injured and/or incapacitated and multiple systems damaged or thrown off line.

As such, in addition to any needed attempt to rescue or treat the potentially injured engineer I could also see the need to vent the engine room, re-establish its internal atmosphere (if possible), the need to potentially segregate the damaged components and reroute around them (which may be possible automatically or remotely but which may also need to be done manually depending on the level of damage present etc), and finally the need to try and re-establish fuel to the power plant and power to the ship's systems, including the maneuver drives, all of which may require several task dies rolls which may be hasty and/or above difficult for the crewmember(s) in question to perform.

These tasks may be even harder to perform if the atmosphere to the engine room cannot be fully restored due to damage to the fuel system that may have resulted in a constant flow of fuel or outside atmosphere into the space and which may thus require the crewmember to don and wear vacc suites while attempting these tasks, as well as the possibility that local (or even ship wide grav plating may be down due tot he ship diverting to emergency power when the power plant went down etc.

Added to all the above would also be the potential that circuit breakers (or their futuristic equivalents) and control chips etc may have been damaged due to not only the original damage to the ship but also the sudden loss of power etc, which may make trying to bring the systems back up on line difficult and/or result in the need to make multiple tries etc.

In any event, like the pervious case before, if the die rolls are not fully effective and/or result in too much time being required the ship may find that without power while being in the planet's atmosphere is resulting in it being dragged further down into the gravity well and that 'ejecting' fro the ship in some sort of lifeboat/lifepod or something similar before everything gets too far out of hand may be their only chance for survival.

Just some thoughts.
 
There's no real need for hard/fast rules on this. It is trivial, during the design process, to designate areas to be separated into airtight sections. How many sinks in a bathroom? One can get quite ridiculous in trying to define every common sense thing in a rule set.

hi,

to me subdivision really seems to me to be anything but trivial and there are ways that you could try and address it in design. For instance, in Mongoose Traveller they appear to have rules that allow specific components to be armored and I think that they even have some sort of rules for breaking the ship up into smaller segments. As such I would think that similar rules for either making certain major components (such as "main engineering', "cargo bays", weapon "bays" and "barbettes" etc) as being self contained could potentially be similarly dealt with as well as maybe stipulating that designs can be done to different levels of 'subdivision'.

Here it may be that a ship with one level of "subdivision' will have no single spaces over X% of its volume while ships with an alternate level of "subdivision" would have no space bigger than Y% and in these subdivisions auxiliary emergency plants will be provided and life support and such will be self contained, with the ability to cross connect to other spaces as part of damage control and repair operations. An added coast and volume impact could then be assessed during the design etc.

For very small ships and or merchant ships it may thus be that their level of subdivision would be that the ship is only divided into a bridge and basic controls, the engineering spaces, the fuel tanks and the rest of the ship. If no additional provisions are made it would be assumed that all spaces share the same life support and such and that only existing air and limited emergency water would be available in any section in the event of major damage to any other subdivision. Alternately you could pay extra to provide a fresher in each space, or even more to separate the support systems in those spaces to be self-contained with emergency back up power dedicated to each space, while larger ships and/or warships, auxiliaries and big passenger liners and the like are instead built to conform to the higher "X", "Y", "Z" level of subdivision noted previously.
 
hi,

to me subdivision really seems to me to be anything but trivial and there are ways that you could try and address it in design. For instance, in Mongoose Traveller they appear to have rules that allow specific components to be armored

That is for interior armour. It isn't itself, having to do with being airtight. There are no rules in MgT having to do with how many or few areas of a ship are allowed to be partitioned by airtight bulkheads...
 
Keep in mind also: We're the die-hard geeks of the Traveller fandom. We probably give far more thought to it than the average Traveller player. It's obvious we give more thought to certain issues that the design teams did.

In looking at CT pricing, J1-J3 are profitable under Bk2-77, and J2-3 are just around a break-even under Bk2-81... Using CT pricing, MGT designs do fine for J1-2, and just below break-even for J3... as pure cargo designs. (Optimal size is also 800Td, but 800Td can't fill under Bk2 trade system; it can under the Bk5, and can still make money. A factor on planet pulling an extra set of cargo and freight can fill it, tho', given three weeks down time, and can even fill a 1000Td.)

Because of the slim profit margins, J1 shipping can't really afford life boats, but can afford ELB's for the passenger loads expected without a factor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top