CT Only: Destroyers and other escorts

[Matt123]

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OTOH the cruiser spinal would mean one hit/one kill. A J rated meson gun will hit on a 10+ (4+, -6 due to agility), and any hit will cripple a ship. And the 5 kdt ships are unlikely to have powerful meson screens...

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10+ equates to 1 in 6 hits. One destroyer hit every 6 turns. This is not good odds!

While 5kt destroyers typically do not have powerful meson screens, they often have small meson screens of say #3, requiring 6+ to penetrate and may have Needle configurations requiring 6+ to penetrate. These reduce the odds of hitting and penetrating with a Meson J to 8.7% or roughly one in twelve shots.

Meantime, round one of the combat will guarantee the Meson J becomes a Meson H, reducing the chances of Meson success now to 7% or 1 in 14 shots.

Of course the Cruiser has missile bays as well. But these are lost at the rate of one per 6 or 7 weapon hits until the last one, with losses gaining speed as secondary batteries are scrubbed. The 6 destroyers have the benefit that the last missile bay on each Destroyer will take time to be reduced meaning they collectively take more punishment and secondary batteries may survive till the end.

Ignored in this discussion so far, is a key point. The assumption is both sides are Imperial TL15. In the OTU, only one side is at TL15, the other will be at most TL14 and this dramatically impacts results. Of course I am ignoring civil war (never did like the Shattered Imperium history).

 

[Redcap]

...Of course I am ignoring civil war (never did like the Shattered Imperium history).

Welcome to the club. Coffee's in the corner over there, beer's in the fridge. Pull up a pew

 

[McPerth]

Ignored in this discussion so far, is a key point. The assumption is both sides are Imperial TL15. In the OTU, only one side is at TL15, the other will be at most TL14 and this dramatically impacts results. Of course I am ignoring civil war (never did like the Shattered Imperium history).

Yes, that's an important point in OTU.

The main effect at lower TLs is the reduction of the nuclear dampers (and ,at a lesser extent, armor), making missiles more effective

At TL 14:

• maximum Nuclear Damper is 6, while 50 dton missile bays are kept at 9. This means missiles are quite more effective (overcoming the dampers on a 7+, instead of 10+). Even the fighters (if used in 10 fighters/30 turrets squadrons, so 7 rated batteries) have a decent chane of overcoming them (8+).
• maximum armor is 14 (for simplicity, let's ignore planetoids). So, any scoring nukes will damage it on a 7-, and fuel hits are more common
• PP size is double of that at TL 15, meaning less power will be available
• Maximum computer is less expensive (while still MCr 110), so making high performace fighters somewhat more affordable (though by a probably not significant margin).

All of this makes the hamsters quite more effective at TL14 tan at TL15, and this becomes more so at lower TLs...

And all of this is only if pitched against other TL 14 ships, if pichted against TL 15 ships, the reflexive +1/-1 due to computer difference must be added to that...

That means that situation in OTU is quite paradoxal:

• the Imperium will rarely need the escorts as such (as the computer difference plays quite against the small ships), but has them quite more effective against capital ships than any of its enemies
• imperial enemies (Solomani, Zhodani, etc.), being TL 14 powers, while needing them the most as escorts properly, have them nearly uneffective against Imperial capital ships

So, in ther role as escorts, the ones who most need them have them less than effective, while the one that can better go without them has a good offensive weapon on them :CoW:

 

[mike wightman]

You are starting to see why the Imperium has an advantage...

 

[McPerth]

You are starting to see why the Imperium has an advantage...

In fact, I realized it time ago, but some new facts and unexpected connotations appear from time to time...

 

[CliffBates]

Ye gods, man, what did you do to make her do that?!

A couple of years ago when I had my books shipped overseas my Wife forbade sending childish things--so most of my sci fy paperbacks and all my games were not transported. My sister had to sell the house to pay for my 90+ year old long term care due to dementia. My sister talked to my wife, not me, about whether should she move it to long term storage or not--my Polish wife took the most economic view and told her to sell it by my sister was too lazy to put the stuff on ebay and just gave it to a local charity.

 

[CliffBates]

At which TL?

At TL 15, those fighters will mount at most (assuming squadrons of 10 fighters, each with a triple missile on it) a level 7 battery, that, once hit and bypased active defenses will need a 12 to penetrate a 9 rated nuclear damper, while the capital ships seccondaries (9 rated missile batteries) will hit fighters (and kill one of them) on a 10+ (so one in six batteries bearing), and killing one fighter mission kills the whole squadron, as it's no longer able to penetrate the damper.

And to be able to do it, I repeat, each fighter must be equiped with computer 9, at MCr 140 per fighter. How many cruisers can one build with the BCr 140 that just the computers of your 1000 fighters cost?

At lower TLs? Then fighters are more useful, as already stated in the OP, making the escorts more necessary.

I disagree with your interpretation of the rules. The HQ vessel/carrier leading the Group controls and all ships computers are linked to the Main Air Group on the Carrier dealing with Air operations.

As for meson gun hits.. they must target individual ships as does the fighter units must as well. The individual fighters squadron will collectively target... where as a Meson gun cannot divide its targeting.

 

[Redcap]

A couple of years ago when I had my books shipped overseas my Wife forbade sending childish things--so most of my sci fy paperbacks and all my games were not transported. My sister had to sell the house to pay for my 90+ year old long term care due to dementia. My sister talked to my wife, not me, about whether should she move it to long term storage or not--my Polish wife took the most economic view and told her to sell it by my sister was too lazy to put the stuff on ebay and just gave it to a local charity.

Dear Lord Personally, I'd have viewed that as grounds for "irreconcilable differences", and found a better, more understanding missus

Of course, the lesson here is to secure the valuables BEFORE you nip abroad

 

[CliffBates]

Dear Lord Personally, I'd have viewed that as grounds for "irreconcilable differences", and found a better, more understanding missus

Of course, the lesson here is to secure the valuables BEFORE you nip abroad

The wife is generally fantastic, this was a case of misunderstanding.In her mind it was cheeper to buy new stuff tgan ship those boxes over.

 

[Redcap]

Ah. Then I offer my sincere apologies for any offence I may have given, and I withdraw the comment unreservedly.

I've been very lucky in most of my relationships, they've either been gamers, or tolerant of my odd hobbies Only one has been, shall we say, utterly committed to trying to 'fix' me, and that one didn't last long, which is probably what spurred my comment.

Again, Cliff, apologies for any offence I might have caused.

 

[atpollard]

The wife is generally fantastic, this was a case of misunderstanding.In her mind it was cheeper to buy new stuff tgan ship those boxes over.

An excellent opportunity to buy the FFE CDs and go Digital.
I really like the convenience of the portability factor ... everything on a large thumb drive that I can bring with me wherever I go.

 

[whulorigan]

An excellent opportunity to buy the FFE CDs and go Digital.
I really like the convenience of the portability factor ... everything on a large thumb drive that I can bring with me wherever I go.

I'll second that Cliff. All of the FFE CDs are a GREAT deal.

 

[Redcap]

That's true; all my gaming stuff is in storage (no space atm), but I have laid my mitts on the CT-CD-ROM; gave me a few things I didn't have, too

Next up, I think, will either be the JTAS or Challenge CD-ROMs; maybe the MT one too. Have to decide which I want first!

I view them as a two-part solution: First, a useful backup right at hand when I need it, and second, to fill any gaps in my Traveller library that I want filled

One thing I really would like to see at some point would be the entire DGP Traveller's Digest and MegaTraveller Journal archives; I've got most of them bar the first couple of TDs, but again, they're in storage

 

[whulorigan]

I'll second that Cliff. All of the FFE CDs are a GREAT deal.

Also, FFE is running a 443 deal right now: buy 3 FFE CDs and get the 4th free.

From the FFE Website ( http://www.farfuture.net/ )
443 Sale! Order any 4 CDROMS and we'll rebate $35 as a PayPal refund (the reprogramming logic is otherwise unfathomable): you're getting four CDROMs for the price of three.

 

[whartung]

Also, FFE is running a 443 deal right now: buy 3 FFE CDs and get the 4th free.

I've been meaning to as the, if I can order three, and just order the fourth in the comments so that I don't have to deal with the whole paypal credit thing, since I rarely use paypal.

Or do they credit it back automatically to the credit card?

 

[whulorigan]

Or do they credit it back automatically to the credit card?

I believe so.

 

[CliffBates]

Ah. Then I offer my sincere apologies for any offence I may have given, and I withdraw the comment unreservedly.

I've been very lucky in most of my relationships, they've either been gamers, or tolerant of my odd hobbies Only one has been, shall we say, utterly committed to trying to 'fix' me, and that one didn't last long, which is probably what spurred my comment.

Again, Cliff, apologies for any offence I might have caused.

No problems... Didn't take any offense.

 

[Redcap]

*phew*

 

[CliffBates]

An excellent opportunity to buy the FFE CDs and go Digital.
I really like the convenience of the portability factor ... everything on a large thumb drive that I can bring with me wherever I go.

Have been.. but I also spent a lots on money at Drive Thru RPG on MegaTraveller and other things. The only problem with FEE is that requires Pay Pal and for that I must use my US bank card and I don't like using. Pay Pal won't take either my Euro or my Zloty card... some Patriot act nonsense. I does like my Google Wallet Mastercard but again that requires that I move US money into the Google Waller--as Google doesn't allow move Non Dollars to my Dollar account... Hi finance. Whereas Drive Thru RPG took my polish card and boy did not catch up on Mega Traveller and Grups Traveller at SJG.. and got pdfs for Ogre and other things I had from SJG that were lost as well. The wife jokes that the money I spent on it was cheeper on the replacement CD on CT and the TAS (plus the FASA stuff)... the only stuff lost was the The Traveller Digest, High Passage, etc magazines.

 

[Redcap]

Yeah, those mags would be really useful if they could be re-made as digital content. As far as I know Mr. Sanger has the copyright to them, anyone know if he actually plans to re-release them?