Used yachts as commercial vessels

[nobby-w]

I love my computer I'm typing this on. It's never failed me and has lasted over a decade.
[ . . . ]
High tech can definitely last forever

I'e got loads of old computer stories.

Not that long ago, it was estimated that there were still something like 10,000 active RiscOS users in the UK. That came out with the Acorn Archimedes in the latter part of the 1980s. I gave my dad one as a present a just few years ago and he had a ball with it.

There are still a few IBM 1130s in production, running critical systems in nuclear power plants (or were quite recently). This model was current in 1965.

There are plenty of stories about folks buying 20+ year old macs on Ebay and booting them up. The SE30 seems to be particularly long-lived.

Computers used in aerospace or military applications have a long life span. Somebody got in trouble (not that long ago) for describing a really old system used on Swedish submarines that was programmed by 5-bit wide paper tapes. Turns out it was still classified. Other folks still say they would fly core memory in satellites - if you could still get it.

DEC was still making PDP-11s until well into the era that the VAX was being considered obsolete. They only stopped making them a few years before they killed off the VAX.

I have a friend who is still running Skyrim on an old HP XW9300 of mine. It was made in 2006 and has the original motherboard and CPUs (actually probably upgraded to dual-core Opteron 280s sometime around 2008).

It's got a new-ish gaming card (the Quadro FX3400 that it came with only supported DX9) and some more memory, but otherwise it's much the same spec as when it was originally manufactured.

That's Skyrim (with loads of mods) running on CPUs that were state of the art nearly 10 years ago.

I have another friend who has bought four Thinkpads between 2000 and now (having just purchased an X1 Carbon). All four still work. Three of them still run reasonably modern software. I, too, am now a confirmed Thinkpad fanboy.

IBM mainframes (and a lot of kit from that era) are built for a 40 year life span, and IBM guarantees parts supply for 40 years (if you're prepared to pay). The U.S. air traffic control system was running on IBM 7090s (a model from around 1960 that predates the System/360) until fairly recently.

They finally came to a crisis, not because IBM stopped making parts (they had ceased years ago), but because it was getting hard to find parts on the grey market. They were forced to upgrade to a newer system.

The list goes on ...

 

[robject]

I always thought the yacht itself to be pretty naff for a noble or megacorp exec or any other billionaire who may want to get one, so I offer a range of hull sizes and drive performances.

I agree. The test of this is: do players ever WANT this ship?

No. Canon and completeness' issues aside, then why bother to have it in the lists of common or essential spacecraft?

 

[aramis]

I agree. The test of this is: do players ever WANT this ship?

No. Canon and completeness' issues aside, then why bother to have it in the lists of common or essential spacecraft?

You're missing the point of the standard ships - they aren't there so much for players, but for setting building.

Each standard vessel has 3 routine uses...
1 - Standard Encounters, including as target or aggressor
2 - establishing setting norms for ships
3 - Player use as a vessel

The single most important thing about the Yacht is what it says about the wankers buying them.

In CT, where the design originates...

Yacht (Type Y): Based on the type 200 hull, the yacht is equipped with 16 staterooms (four for the crew: pilot, engineer, medic and steward; eleven for the passengers). Note that two staterooms have been joined to make a suite for the owner-aboard. No low berths are installed. The yacht has jump drive-A, maneuver drive-A and power plant-A, allowing it 1 G of acceleration and jump-1. Computer Model/1 is installed adjacent to the bridge, and four tons of displacement are held in reserve for later use as the owner sees fit. Cargo capacity is 13 tons; fuel tankage is 39 tons, which includes one full refuelling load for the ship’s boat. The hull is compartmented for the ship’s boat, air/raft, and ATV which form the complement of ship’s vehicles. The hull is not streamlined, and has one hardpoint, but no turret or weaponry is installed. Base price for the yacht is CR 59,490,000​

Only one career offers it - Noble - and that's in Sup 4.

It's not a work vessel - but note that a better than J1 vessel is frightful expensive under even under Bk 2 rules.

It's a status symbol, it's short range transportation. It's not a "Go to the Moot" ship. It may be a "Go see the Subsector Duke" and/or "Get the wife and kids out of here while I work"...

It's also not for major entertaining. Noble and 10 passengers; we can presume, thanks to a throwaway reference about Vilani having the heir be child 3 rather than child 1, a family of 5. Add a bodyguard or nanny each, and she's near full.

It's good enough for in system jaunts - 1G gets you anywhere inside the heliopause within 2 weeks.

It's good enough for a short jaunt; more often, commercial passage is better.

 

[robject]

No, I get it, there are canon distinctives. But as far as ships go, it's boring!

 

[Brandon C]

No, I get it, there are canon distinctives. But as far as ships go, it's boring!

I think the same can be said of any Jump 1 ship, including the free trader.

 

[aramis]

No, I get it, there are canon distinctives. But as far as ships go, it's boring!

No, it's mundane.

What percentage of 1977 cars were muscle cars? And what percentage basic grocery-getters?

The Yacht is the starship equivalent of the basic Road Tour Bus. Much nicer than a typical Winnebago. But still not as exciting as a LM002 Lamborghini...

The only thing it really is problematic for is the lack of streamlining.

 

[Brandon C]

The only thing it really is problematic for is the lack of streamlining.

That's easily fixed for under MCr 1 and no change in tonnage.

 

[aramis]

That's easily fixed for under MCr 1 and no change in tonnage.

Nope. It's MCr1 per 100 Td under Bk2-77... so it's MCr2 extra, for an increase in payment of Cr8334 per month... Orbital shuttle service is far cheaper. As is high port docking - which is only KCr3 per month, plus Cr25 per shuttle leg.

 

[mike wightman]

The sort of people who buy these things don't notice the odd million - they make more than that per day on the interest from their portfolio - never mind the real money.

 

[Brandon C]

Ah. I'm using MgT where it's 10% of hull cost, so there is not much reason to streamline it. I haven't done any significant CT designs in almost 30 years.

Of course, dropping the ship's boat or using a launch instead more than makes up the MCr 2.

Of couse, GT is worse than CT, since streamlining also costs you 20% of volume.

 

[pendragonman]

You're missing the point of the standard ships - they aren't there so much for players, but for setting building.

Each standard vessel has 3 routine uses...
1 - Standard Encounters, including as target or aggressor
2 - establishing setting norms for ships
3 - Player use as a vessel

The single most important thing about the Yacht is what it says about the wankers buying them.

In CT, where the design originates...

Yacht (Type Y): Based on the type 200 hull, the yacht is equipped with 16 staterooms (four for the crew: pilot, engineer, medic and steward; eleven for the passengers). Note that two staterooms have been joined to make a suite for the owner-aboard. No low berths are installed. The yacht has jump drive-A, maneuver drive-A and power plant-A, allowing it 1 G of acceleration and jump-1. Computer Model/1 is installed adjacent to the bridge, and four tons of displacement are held in reserve for later use as the owner sees fit. Cargo capacity is 13 tons; fuel tankage is 39 tons, which includes one full refuelling load for the ship’s boat. The hull is compartmented for the ship’s boat, air/raft, and ATV which form the complement of ship’s vehicles. The hull is not streamlined, and has one hardpoint, but no turret or weaponry is installed. Base price for the yacht is CR 59,490,000​

Only one career offers it - Noble - and that's in Sup 4.

It's not a work vessel - but note that a better than J1 vessel is frightful expensive under even under Bk 2 rules.

It's a status symbol, it's short range transportation. It's not a "Go to the Moot" ship. It may be a "Go see the Subsector Duke" and/or "Get the wife and kids out of here while I work"...

It's also not for major entertaining. Noble and 10 passengers; we can presume, thanks to a throwaway reference about Vilani having the heir be child 3 rather than child 1, a family of 5. Add a bodyguard or nanny each, and she's near full.

It's good enough for in system jaunts - 1G gets you anywhere inside the heliopause within 2 weeks.

It's good enough for a short jaunt; more often, commercial passage is better.

I consider it the equivalent to a G1 or G2. Short legs but posh enough for mid to higher level staff members of the noble/megacorp that owns it. The noble's own yacht is much larger and more capable.

But there has to be some way to go grab the nearby company managers when the noble/CEO wants to talk to them.

 

[Condottiere]

Speaking of personal computers, how this should work is that the buyer tells the shipyard the hull size and performance he wants, and the layout of the interior and how expensive it should be outfitted.

Engineering is off the shelf, while luxury furnishings could be custom made.

 

[Jame]

I am redesigning the yacht into what I consider more appropriate, in particular streamlined with J2 drives. I have upgraded to 2G drives (only one more ton). The armor 2, two hardpoints, and basic sensors do eat up 9 tons but make sense for the original, noncommercial role. I'll post the revised design Monday.

Right now, I am looking at two high passengers (sharing the suite) and six middle passengers, plus 19 tons of cargo (assuming the ATV garage has been converted to a hold but not counting any cargo space in the 30-ton slow boat).

I remade a yacht like this about 10-12 years ago when I got T4 as a birthday present and made a noble, only to discover the flaws you've seen. If you like I can dig it out and show it to you.

Also, I have a J2 M5 yacht here: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=34538

 

[boomslang]

No, I get it, there are canon distinctives. But as far as ships go, it's boring!

Precisely why -- with a little "customization" to the basic fittings -- it makes an excellent Corsair for the self-styled "Gentleman (or Lady) Freebooter" out there.

 

[savage]

More likely, old yachts, sit in orbit or as a retreat somewhere in system.
As stations they make adequate sense, vacation hotels.

Maintenance of an aging vessel for commercial use, not military, may become costly and even unreliable.

 

[Condottiere]

Chalets.

 

[aramis]

More likely, old yachts, sit in orbit or as a retreat somewhere in system.
As stations they make adequate sense, vacation hotels.

Maintenance of an aging vessel for commercial use, not military, may become costly and even unreliable.

I can think of a couple conversions likely for "hotel use" of near-retirement ones - pull the drives, put in a week's LS power batteries, open the fuel tanks into the internals for use as additional staterooms and rec space. Then semi-permanently dock it to a docking wing. Have some central entertainment, as well, inside the hub. A few get kept flight ready in case of emergencies - but those are NOT rented out.

Then again, some young colonies would land them, pull the JDrives and MDrives, and use that material for constructing fuel and personnel tubes, and use them pretty much as is for living space. JDrive fuel tank can be converted to hydroponics.

Noting that indefinite LS is about 20 Td per person, above and beyond the stateroom, a yacht isn't self sufficient that way - it can support about 2 people ... 1j1 fuel=20Td, the JDrive and MDrive are 18 (Bk2) or 8 (B5) Td... or, pull 5 SR for a third person... converting freighters is better, (90 tons of cargo bay and 20 tons of fuel for an A, supports 4.5 people)... But note also - such colonies have under 50% of the quarters supported with hydroponics. Still need grow-domes, etc, but it's not a bad use for hulls. Replace the PP in a few years with a new A-plant, refurb the PP fuel tank and epoxy coat the hull, adding some dirt over top...

IMOTUV , I've added a group of space gypsies - they have some ships permanently welded into deep space stations, and others that make fuel and materials runs. They keep an eye out for salvage hulls - not for the prize, per se, tho' that's a specialty - and wrecks, and either tow them in for materials, rewards, or necessities. If they have the cash, they'll buy serviceable hulls with iffy drives, and rebuild the drives.

I felt really cool about this idea, until SGA later used it... polygenesis.

 

[Condottiere]

Space gypsies would burrow into planetoids, which allows expansion, as the clan expands.

Also privacy.

 

[aramis]

Space gypsies would burrow into planetoids, which allows expansion, as the clan expands.

Also privacy.

Except that planetoids are often already claimed by others. The deep space clusters are actually inspired by Vulcan from the Sten Series... and a collection of hulls with the drives still intact can be moved... planetoids, not so much.

 

[savage]

I can think of a couple conversions likely for "hotel use" of near-retirement ones - pull the drives, put in a week's LS power batteries, open the fuel tanks into the internals for use as additional staterooms and rec space. Then semi-permanently dock it to a docking wing. Have some central entertainment, as well, inside the hub. A few get kept flight ready in case of emergencies - but those are NOT rented out.

Then again, some young colonies would land them, pull the JDrives and MDrives, and use that material for constructing fuel and personnel tubes, and use them pretty much as is for living space. JDrive fuel tank can be converted to hydroponics.

Noting that indefinite LS is about 20 Td per person, above and beyond the stateroom, a yacht isn't self sufficient that way - it can support about 2 people ... 1j1 fuel=20Td, the JDrive and MDrive are 18 (Bk2) or 8 (B5) Td... or, pull 5 SR for a third person... converting freighters is better, (90 tons of cargo bay and 20 tons of fuel for an A, supports 4.5 people)... But note also - such colonies have under 50% of the quarters supported with hydroponics. Still need grow-domes, etc, but it's not a bad use for hulls. Replace the PP in a few years with a new A-plant, refurb the PP fuel tank and epoxy coat the hull, adding some dirt over top...

IMOTUV , I've added a group of space gypsies - they have some ships permanently welded into deep space stations, and others that make fuel and materials runs. They keep an eye out for salvage hulls - not for the prize, per se, tho' that's a specialty - and wrecks, and either tow them in for materials, rewards, or necessities. If they have the cash, they'll buy serviceable hulls with iffy drives, and rebuild the drives.

I felt really cool about this idea, until SGA later used it... polygenesis.

All of that works. Gypsies probably build cheap freighter communities though. All the parts from other ships. The caravan approach with anything they can get.