Some Interesting Military Data

[Timerover51]

I'm sure they did the best they could.

Some years ago I saw a short movie, might have been in Navy boot camp, on how a jammed projectile is pulled from the breach. Something small caliber, probably a M-2 .50 or an M-1 Garand.

One of my high school buddies was in Viet Nam, he told me gear rotted quickly there. He saw leather rot in less than a month. Something like that. I asked him what they used, I had had a pair of leather combat boots from surplus I used camping back in the early 1960s. He told me they had switched to canvas boots that drained better but they didn't last long either. No way to check with him as he passed away about 10 years ago.

In Shots Fired in Anger, Lt. Col. George, who fought on Guadalcanal and with Merrills' Marauders, both involving a lot of work in the jungle discusses the problem of equipment rotting quite fast in the jungle. The Quartermaster history for World War 2 also discusses the problem, as the Quartermaster Corps was responsible for supplying the equipment. Basically, a lot of material does not hold up well under jungle conditions.

 

[Condottiere]

https://books.google.ch/books?id=y6...fully that it is not to the English."&f=false

 

[Timerover51]

https://books.google.ch/books?id=y6...fully that it is not to the English."&f=false

I cannot figure out what you are trying to say, as I cannot really read the link.

 

[coliver988]

He was doing a google books search for:

There is one account from later in the Hundred Years War, that the town was besieged by the English in 1369, and that, when they seemed to be on the point of departure having abandoned the siege, one resident decided to show her backside to the English to demonstrate her contempt for them. Unfortunately, this insult had completely the reverse effect and the English surged into the town, destroying ramparts and town and putting the population to the sword. The moral drawn from this story locally is: "Ladies, before showing your backside, check carefully that it is not to the English."

At least that would be my guess from actually looking at the page.

 

[Condottiere]

A bullet maximum range, when fired out of a handgun, depends on the type of gun. A bullet shot out of a gun will eventually slow down due to the drag factor. The drag factor is due to the gradual accumulation of air resistance as the bullet loses momentum. The maximum range of a handgun is determined by the muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient, and air temperature, amount of gunpowder, angle shot and form factor.

Typically a 9 mm bullet shot out of a medium sized handgun will travel 2200 meters before it will fall to the ground. A bullet almost never travels this far before it actually hits something. So don’t test this theory because chances are you will shoot someone or break something.

 

[mike wightman]

Actually the reason a bullet hits the ground is gravity.

Fire a bullet and at exactly the same instance drop a bullet from exactly the same height and both hit the ground at exactly the same time - the bullet that was fired from the gun just happens to be a lot further away.

 

[whartung]

Actually the reason a bullet hits the ground is gravity.

Fire a bullet and at exactly the same instance drop a bullet from exactly the same height and both hit the ground at exactly the same time - the bullet that was fired from the gun just happens to be a lot further away.

That doesn't disqualify the earlier post. The faster the velocity, the farther the bullet will travel before it hits the ground.

And one should always cite the MythBusters episode where they demonstrated just this. The whole thing was extraordinary.

 

[BlackBat242]

Barrel length also plays a factor - a longer barrel allows more of the powder to burn, producing more burning gas, thus pushing the bullet to a higher velocity (and thus longer range).

That is why a carbine/rifle firing a pistol round gets both a longer effective range and a longer total range - the higher muzzle velocity from more-complete burning!

A Hi-Point 9mm carbine, with its 16.5" barrel, propels the same ammo further (and faster) than a Sig 938 with its 3" barrel.

 

[JimMarn]

That doesn't disqualify the earlier post. The faster the velocity, the farther the bullet will travel before it hits the ground.

And one should always cite the MythBusters episode where they demonstrated just this. The whole thing was extraordinary.

Both of the guys were astounded, so was I, when it was shown to be true. A great episode of theirs.

 

[JimMarn]

But the choice was likely down to:

1. Use those corroded shells and hope a few work, and maybe we can hold off the Japs long enough to get resupplied.

2. Don't use them, and get captured/killed by the Japs.


It is quite probable that no one had noticed the leaky roof for a while after the shells were stored there (if it didn't start leaking later), and I can tell you from personal experience that things corrode FAST in the Philippines during the rainy season (and even in the "not really rainy yet, just wait a few weeks" season).

And another source said 3 inch anti-aircraft. So, I don't know for certaqin if they had 37mm or 3 inch. Double checked, 3 inch is 76.2 mm.

The Japanese attack aircraft must have received some hits, as several books I have read mentioned they just flew higher than the AA available could reach after several attacks.

I know .50 caliber machine guns were used as well.

Read, and watched a film documentary, the fleet was glad when the 20mm Oerlikon and 40mm Bofers came into use.

Many outfitted onto battleships, heavy and light cruisers, and destroyers/destroyer escorts, who were told to defend the carriers. Before it was the smaller ships that made a wall around the battle wagons.

 

[aramis]

Barrel length also plays a factor - a longer barrel allows more of the powder to burn, producing more burning gas, thus pushing the bullet to a higher velocity (and thus longer range).

That is why a carbine/rifle firing a pistol round gets both a longer effective range and a longer total range - the higher muzzle velocity from more-complete burning!

A Hi-Point 9mm carbine, with its 16.5" barrel, propels the same ammo further (and faster) than a Sig 938 with its 3" barrel.

Only applies to a certain point... past which. continuing friction is lower than increased force from the gas expansion.

 

[BlackBat242]

Which is why there are no long rifles firing pistol ammunition.
The Hi-Point is likely at the maximum for length for the very reason you cite.

Simply put, all of that flame you see coming out of the barrel of a pistol is wasted powder - but if there is no combustion still ongoing when the bullet leaves the barrel than you might have a too-long barrel.

 

[Condottiere]

You can adjust the propellant.

Slow burning, fast burning, and amount.

There's probably minimal friction when magnetized, and likely a consistent propulsion along the length of the barrel, perhaps making the barrel thicker, rather than needing to reinforce the breech.

 

[kilemall]

You can adjust the propellant.

Slow burning, fast burning, and amount.

There's probably minimal friction when magnetized, and likely a consistent propulsion along the length of the barrel, perhaps making the barrel thicker, rather than needing to reinforce the breech.

I wonder if there is any benefit to gauss weapons maintaining a near vacuum in the barrel.

 

[kilemall]

And another source said 3 inch anti-aircraft. So, I don't know for certaqin if they had 37mm or 3 inch. Double checked, 3 inch is 76.2 mm.

The Japanese attack aircraft must have received some hits, as several books I have read mentioned they just flew higher than the AA available could reach after several attacks.

I know .50 caliber machine guns were used as well.

Read, and watched a film documentary, the fleet was glad when the 20mm Oerlikon and 40mm Bofers came into use.

Many outfitted onto battleships, heavy and light cruisers, and destroyers/destroyer escorts, who were told to defend the carriers. Before it was the smaller ships that made a wall around the battle wagons.

Radar fusing in the AA shells made attacking the US fleet MUCH harder and made the kamikaze option more 'logical', at least at a loss vs. results perspective.


https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/proximity-fuse-world-war-2?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

 

[JimMarn]

Radar fusing in the AA shells made attacking the US fleet MUCH harder and made the kamikaze option more 'logical', at least at a loss vs. results perspective.


https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/proximity-fuse-world-war-2?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

But those came over a year later. I was refering to the combats at the start of the attacks on the U.S. protectorates and territories. Only thing they could do then was hope for impacts which would cause the impact fuse to go off.

 

[JimMarn]

I wonder if there is any benefit to gauss weapons maintaining a near vacuum in the barrel.

I kinow that MyhBusters were able to get ping pong balls to accelerate to over 100 miles per hour with a vacuumed barrel. I think there was some thin plastic over the opening. Not sure of the detail.

They found out a) the length had to be a certain range, too long or too short and it wouldn't work properly. b) they were able to punch a hole in a ping pong paddle.

 

[kilemall]

I kinow that MyhBusters were able to get ping pong balls to accelerate to over 100 miles per hour with a vacuumed barrel. I think there was some thin plastic over the opening. Not sure of the detail.

They found out a) the length had to be a certain range, too long or too short and it wouldn't work properly. b) they were able to punch a hole in a ping pong paddle.

Well there we go, another bit of fluff to explain better performing slugs.

 

[BlackBat242]

But those came over a year later. I was refering to the combats at the start of the attacks on the U.S. protectorates and territories. Only thing they could do then was hope for impacts which would cause the impact fuse to go off.

Actually, USN 5" AA shells had timed fuses before 1941 - but you had to guess what height/range/time-to-target you would need the fuse to go off to hit the enemy airplane, then dial that into the automatic fuse-setter... it was very hard to guess right.


Here is a 1947 USN ordnance manual, I'm linking the first page of the section on timed fuses :
https://maritime.org/doc/ordnance/pg103.htm

 

[JimMarn]

Actually, USN 5" AA shells had timed fuses before 1941 - but you had to guess what height/range/time-to-target you would need the fuse to go off to hit the enemy airplane, then dial that into the automatic fuse-setter... it was very hard to guess right.


Here is a 1947 USN ordnance manual, I'm linking the first page of the section on timed fuses :
https://maritime.org/doc/ordnance/pg103.htm

Timed fuses yes, for both AA and howitzers.

But not the radar proximity fuses that came later on.

The 5" projectiles we had were impact. I'm not a gunner's mate, so I am unsure.

I have read that in WW2 the bigger ships used their secondaries, 5" etc. as AA guns.