2009 PBEM Trillion Credit Squadron Tournament

[far-trader]

Quick pop in again. How about a quick round of BCS for everyone to work out the kinks in turn communications, general design, and rules. We can pair up randomly or as fleets are completed taking turns as refs. Then in the new year we go for the full on TCS 2009.

 

[far-trader]

Not to steal Jeffr0's show but how about to warm up we revisit the first TCS Tournament as a BCS contest?

Noting that BCS will generally mean fewer and smaller ships (typically hundreds of tons instead of hundreds of thousands of tons) I lowered the pilot allowance accordingly (from 200)...

From 1981: The maximum tech level allowed for all ships is 12. The total pilot allowance for the squadron is 20. The squadron must be capable of jump-3; each ship and small craft must be capable of 1 -G acceleration (minimum). The squadron must be capable of gas giant refueling (using the TCS Refueling rules - pg 10).

Does everybody think that'll work?

 

[Jeffr0]

The "official" Tournament Specs for 2009 are:

TL 15
200 pilots
Jump 3
5 G
Any Refueling Method OK

 

[far-trader]

Thanks Jeffr0, I'll keep playing with the big (TC) squadron for now then

I whipped up my fleet lances in spare moments this afternoon. Kinda surprised me how they fell into place so nicely from concept to completed, under budget and within tonnage first go. That has never happened before for me.

So I just now plugged it into HGS and it actually came out correct there too. Well, except for a niggling difference in crewing/staterooms. But then I think I massaged mine just the slightest bit and suspect AMV may have as well but I'd have to play more to see exactly how and where.

...now for the tricky bits, the fleet backbone and using up the remaining budget. Maybe a big fancy dress launching ceremony

 

[far-trader]

Just to clarify that I've been reading the requirements correctly all these years and didn't miss a word in the rules somewhere. Those are minimum performance requirements right? Except for the pilot limit which is maximum right?

I mean I can go 6G if I want on some of my fleet right? (And who wouldn't )

Anyway, I'll give it all a good read over again this weekend too, see what I've forgotten.

The "official" Tournament Specs for 2009 are:

TL 15
200 pilots
Jump 3
5 G
Any Refueling Method OK

 

[The Dragon Master]

I'd like to make sure I'm reading it right too. So the upper bound for the TL for any ship created in the fleet is 15, right?

With a total of 200 pilots.
All ships capable of a minimun of Jump 3 (so 4, etc. would be okay).
The 5G acceleration, is that minimum or maximum?
And it doesn't matter how they refuel.

Is that the jist of it?
I'd be up for any kind of battle you'd like, but again, I'm learning as I go so it may be easier to do one on one battles.
Also, if I decide to work up a quick CT:B3 or CT:B6 description of the subsector the ships come from, is that cool? It doesn't have to come into play, just so that I can get a handle on how the fleet creation might go in a campaign.

 

[far-trader]

To answer my question and clarify:

Maximum TL 15

Budget Cr 1,000,000,000,000 (1)

Total available pilots = 200 (2)

Minimum Jump capability 3 parsecs (fleet capability, not all ships individually)

Minimum Maneuver capability 5 G (all ships)

Any Refueling Method OK (3)

-------

(1) Includes: All construction costs for ships, small craft, and vehicles within the squadron; Costs for extra fuel tankage used to meet required jump parameters; Architect's fee for first design of a new ship class (and the first ship built does not get 20% discount). The following costs are ignored: Salaries for crew members; Ship operating expenses, including fuel, environment, overhaul, and life support expenses; Ammunition, including reloads, expendable items, missiles, and spare parts; Ship's Locker, including armory equipment for ship's troops or service crew, small arms, vacc suits, tools, and other minor items; Battle damage repairs.

(2) For low tonnage ships and starships (under 500 tons) and for small craft (under 100 tons), one pilot per ship or craft is sufficient. For ships between 500 tons and 20,000 tons, two pilots are required. For ships greater than 20,000 tons, three pilots are required.

(3) No specific requirements must be met by any single ship, but ships with a total fuel tankage equal to at least 10% of the total fuel tankage of the squadron (including vessels carried on others) are capable of meeting the required refueling parameter.

That summarizes the basics but you really need "CT Adventure 5 - Trillion Credit Squadron" for all the clarifications to meet the qualifications. You could probably design a fleet with just the above but you'd be missing some possible benefits.

 

[far-trader]

I'd be up for any kind of battle you'd like, but again, I'm learning as I go so it may be easier to do one on one battles.

And easier to play a quick BCS (Billion Credit Squadron) game first time around. Much easier

Also, if I decide to work up a quick CT:B3 or CT:B6 description of the subsector the ships come from, is that cool? It doesn't have to come into play, just so that I can get a handle on how the fleet creation might go in a campaign.

Yep, nothing wrong with doing background. In fact an alternate game play method of TCS Tournament battles is a Campaign style scenario with much more involved budget and movement decisions, based on the worlds involved.

 

[Jeffr0]

Okay guys... I'm back.

There's lots on the table: the mixed-tech TCS fight between pendragonman and Ron Gianti. We've got far-trader who's (like me) interested in the "official" 2009 spec. Then there's (perhaps) the more sane "Billion Credit Squadron" game that would maybe be more appropriate for us given our general lack of experience with both the system and the medium.

Here's my proposal then:

I'm interested in running the games PBEM style. My hypothesis is, that validating the ships and setting things up will take time. The first turn of the game will be time consuming as well... but soon things will fall into a pattern where the tactics are pretty obvious... then it's just a matter of one side grinding the other down with an occasional shift in gears depending on the situation. I could be wrong.

Sooooo...

Here's my proposal for going forward.

I'd like to run a Billion Credit Squadron game before we move forward with more ambitious stuff.

I'd like to focus entirely on running the game PBEM style.

I am not interested in checking designs-- if someone can volunteer for that, great. If opponents can deal with checking each other somehow or just trusting each other, that's fine, too.

I'd like to get one game off the ground. If running them is at all feasible, I'll look at running another concurrently, but I may have to do them one at a time at first.

The only fair way I can see is for this to be first come, first serve. The first pair of BCS players that have a validated set of designs can go at it under my oversight-- whatever they can agree on is fine as long as they agree.

We'll reassess what we're doing and what would be cool to do after we've run a BCS or three... doing a 'real' TCS game or two... and possibly doing a pseudo-official mega TCS round-robin later next year if there is sufficient interest. (I personally think a 6 on 6 round robin would be really interesting, but I'm really sadistic, you know.)

(Sorry if this post is a let-down for anyone-- I'm obviously figuring this out as we go; and we're all coming at this with different ideas, etc....)

 

[far-trader]

Here's my proposal for going forward...

I'd like to run a Billion Credit Squadron game before we move forward with more ambitious stuff.

Check. Much easier

I'd like to focus entirely on running the game PBEM style.

Check. You're thinking emails from participants to ref of actions by turn and ref to participants of results I guess? Keeping the participants blind to the opponents fleet.

I am not interested in checking designs-- if someone can volunteer for that, great. If opponents can deal with checking each other somehow or just trusting each other, that's fine, too.

We can all probably just be adults about it and not cheat. Honest innocent design errors notwithstanding. Using the HGS program would insure any errors are entirely honest and innocent and equally applied. I did a quick run through and it seems to be working right enough.

I'd like to get one game off the ground. If running them is at all feasible, I'll look at running another concurrently, but I may have to do them one at a time at first.

One at a time will probably be best, unless you can wizard up some software to handle the drudgery

The only fair way I can see is for this to be first come, first serve. The first pair of BCS players that have a validated set of designs can go at it under my oversight-- whatever they can agree on is fine as long as they agree.

Hmmm, parameters... Visions of "open" dance briefly in my head to be extinguished by a vision of me showing up to the fight with a TL12 Fighter Carrier Squadron and getting vaporized by a TL15 Meson Bay Particle Spinal death dealing Black Globe packing Dreadnaught :toast:

Perhaps a challenge and accepted format? Party A sets the parameters and waits for a Party B to accept? Then it's off to the races.

We'll reassess what we're doing and what would be cool to do after we've run a BCS or three... doing a 'real' TCS game or two... and possibly doing a pseudo-official mega TCS round-robin later next year if there is sufficient interest. (I personally think a 6 on 6 round robin would be really interesting, but I'm really sadistic, you know.)

Well, I'm interested

(Sorry if this post is a let-down for anyone-- I'm obviously figuring this out as we go; and we're all coming at this with different ideas, etc....)

No worry here, I think we're on the same page.

 

[far-trader]

Sooo, let us see if this works...

Far-Trader is at large terrorizing with his BCr Squadron, who will stop him?!

Parameters:

1. Maximum Technological Level Allowed.

TL12

2. Minimum Jump Capability Required.

J3

3. Minimum Maneuver Capability Required.

3G

4. Maximum Pilot Allowance.

30

5. Minimum Refueling Capability Required.

Gas Giant Skimming

6. Other Special Requirements.

High Guard Shipyard program (v1.1.3.1) designed vessels only (link to HGS Download)

EDIT: Note this last requirement is just in the interest of fairness and speed. It may mean not all TCS rules will apply as HGS and High Guard don't cover some of the clarifications and additions, but I don't think they will be a major issue for a BCS game. If the challenger or ref (Jeffr0 ) would like to drop this requirement and go with old fashioned by the books (HG and TCS) designs and rules that works too. Might be better even as a training aid for the TCS rules changes.

 

[Ron Gianti]

Sooo, let us see if this works...

Far-Trader is at large terrorizing with his BCr Squadron, who will stop him?!

On it! I like that program, it gives me less of a headache but still is some work.

So, I'm desiging a billion cr (1,000Mcr) "squadron" (more likely one small ship...) with those requirements?

Do I purchase computer programs seperately from the book 2 list?
How about the Double Fire program? Is that available or doesn't that work in Book 5 terms?

Anything else I need to know?

 

[Ron Gianti]

I present, the Dagger class:

Spoiler:

Ship: Dagger
Class: Dagger
Type: Frigate
Architect: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
Tech Level: 12

USP
FE-A333442-850100-00004-0 MCr 962.059 1 KTons
Bat Bear 1 1 Crew: 24
Bat 1 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 0.000 Fuel: 340.000 EP: 40.000 Agility: 2 Shipboard Security Detail: 1
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 9.621 Cost in Quantity: MCr 769.647

HGS says I have 89 Tons and 37Mcr remaining, but I haven't paid for programs if thats necessary. The tactic will be to stay at long range if possible and bombard with nuclear missiles.

Edit: Since I had 89 tons free, I figured I could get it down to 900 tons instead:

900t "variant"

Spoiler:

USP
FE-9333562-850100-00004-0 MCr 981.653 900 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 Crew: 24
Bat 1 1 TL: 12

Cargo: 0.000 Fuel: 315.000 EP: 45.000 Agility: 3 Shipboard Security Detail: 1
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 9.817 Cost in Quantity: MCr 785.323

Going down to 900T allowed me to increase the computer and agility too.

 

[far-trader]

On it! I like that program, it gives me less of a headache but still is some work.

So, I'm desiging a billion cr (1,000Mcr) "squadron" (more likely one small ship...) with those requirements?

Yep, that's the deal. I've gone over my budget, trimmed and still over. Need to trim more. A Billion Creds just doesn't buy a lot of ship(s) at TL12 :nonono:

Do I purchase computer programs seperately from the book 2 list?
How about the Double Fire program? Is that available or doesn't that work in Book 5 terms?

Excellent questions.

I've always felt this was (one of) the missing errata bits in HG. It seems obvious to me that programs are still required (the HG computer table does list the program slots). But the rules don't really address the differences between the two combat systems as they apply to the computer programming.

So if you're ok with working it out, I am. I think it should be doable.

Don't forget the basic programming credit of MCr1 x computer model number for free of course.

As far as double fire working in Book 5 combat, I see no insurmountable problem with it. There are some combat differences that will need to be ironed out but I think we can do it.

Anything else I need to know?

Maybe "don't post your design(s) in public" :smirk: (I'm not looking, but could you either delete it or put it in spoiler block - the code is sblock, with square brackets around it, to start and /sblock to end.

Oh, and if a new design don't forget to pay the 1% architect fee for the first design, and no discount on the price for the first of a new design either. If you order a second (or more) then you get a 20% discount and no architect fee charged for them.

 

[Ron Gianti]

I've always felt this was (one of) the missing errata bits in HG. It seems obvious to me that programs are still required (the HG computer table does list the program slots). But the rules don't really address the differences between the two combat systems as they apply to the computer programming.

So if you're ok with working it out, I am. I think it should be doable.

Don't forget the basic programming credit of MCr1 x computer model number for free of course.

As far as double fire working in Book 5 combat, I see no insurmountable problem with it. There are some combat differences that will need to be ironed out but I think we can do it.

Ok, I'll scope out the programs too. On Double Fire, I only wanted to make sure I'm using it if others are, it seems like a pretty powerful cheap program. I'll do whatever. But if you're using Double Fire, maybe that power wouldn't then be available to agility? Or maybe you would then have to make sure that you have the power available to fire twice for each weapon? Just having a powerplant slightly larger than your maneuver wouldn't necessarily equate to enough power to fire each weapon twice, would it? TMM (too much math) head hurts...

Maybe "don't post your design(s) in public" :smirk:

Doh!

 

[far-trader]

Yeah, maybe for simplicity we'll skip the programming issues? This time around anyway

 

[Jeffr0]

I always thought that computers were reduced to mere to-hit DM's in High Guard....

I could see your ships needing the Jump programs... but the other stuff...?

Hmm.... Unless there's a specific ruling otherwise, I'd guess that we can safely ignore computer software altogether-- it's just not mentioned in the High Guard combat rules as far as I know....

 

[Ron Gianti]

No computer programs totally works for me, lets go with that then...

 

[Jeffr0]

EDIT: Note this last requirement is just in the interest of fairness and speed. It may mean not all TCS rules will apply as HGS and High Guard don't cover some of the clarifications and additions, but I don't think they will be a major issue for a BCS game. If the challenger or ref (Jeffr0 ) would like to drop this requirement and go with old fashioned by the books (HG and TCS) designs and rules that works too. Might be better even as a training aid for the TCS rules changes.

In an ideal world, I'd have a Perl script that slurps up USP's and kicks out little spreadsheets in the format of the design worksheets you see in Adventure 5-- that way every jot and tittle is out in the open.... That way people could design stuff however they want and then we could have a single "official" technique for validating the designs....

Unless someone can identify any glaring issues with daryen's app, I'd say we can just live with it for now....

 

[Jeffr0]

A note on "secret" designs:

Most parts of the USP are known after the first turn of combat. Declaring fire against that first biggest ship... you pretty much just know the size at that point.... Armor is never really completely identified in the course of the combat rules, but other stuff requires revealing the exact USP specs. (This is according to the Leroy Gautney article from JTAS, not my vast High Guard experience.)

Sounds like we're close to a game, here.

Finalize your designs. Email them to autoduelist [AT] gmail [DOT] com. Then the shooting can begin.

We'll roll for initiative on 1d6... then the largest ship of the appropriate "fleet" will roll forward to take its first round of attacks.

I will keep actual battle damage secret-- you'll know what hits, of course, but for the criticals, you may only get a cryptic sensor reading as a clue.

Does this sound okay with you guys? No use having a referee unless you can toss in a modicum of the whole "fog of war" thing, eh? Though I doubt face-to-face TCS tournaments were run that way....