2320AD

[TWILIGHT]

no one can own a 'system'. (except for the numbers used to generate DVD code which, apparently, is illegal to own). Only the setting I think can be 'owned'....and in the case of 2300AD thats the best bit! The hard core 2300AD fan is getting older and finding new priorities in life. In my honest, humble opinion there are maybe TOO many rpg's out there to choose from and unless 2320AD is released soon (within the next year or two) it'll never take off. When the previous versions fans are getting annoyed and restless over the new version not appearing what's happening is that you're almost guaranteed customer base is fading away. I'm currently working on an RPG for an independent company as a cartographer. this new game is quite similar to 2300 in feel and setting. As a traveller/2300 fan for years now I can honestly tell you that this new game will take ALL the customer base from 2300. I can virtually guarantee that everyone who visits this board will be keen to get a copy and would the guy on the street want to buy 2300 if he already has a 'hard-sci fi rpg set in earths future heavily influenced by France?' Hunter, if you read these posts.... I'm begging you to get 2320 out there before you're beaten to the punch. I'd still buy 2320 of course (I'll get my copy of 'FH') but after seeing the work thats gone into the project the man on the street is gonna think twice.
PLEASE!

 

[MJD]

My own rant was triggered by repeatedly reading people posting 'QLI's products are really good. Shame they're not publishing right now," which irritates me because the author of those products IS publishing right now. All of the brand recognition associated with my work isn't benefiting me and that's.. gah.

 

[MJD]

At one point, just before Hunter reappeared back in Sept or so, I offered to publish 2300 through Avenger. The fact that Hunter has paid for it killed that idea even before I got to the licensing issues.

QLI owns the rights to publish 2300 and if, having paid the author, they don't publish it then there isn't anything anyone can do unless a new set of rights is negotiated and a new version written.

I was able to pull my own work precisely because it had NOT been paid for, meaning that I had never given up any rights to it and was still the copyright owner.

This does not help me with the T20 player's book since that's a T20 piece and I don't have a T20 license, so I can't publish it. The work done is wasted unless and until QLI makes a new agreement with me and publishes it.

The other materials I'm putting out through Avenger to try to make some return on my work, so my position is different (not better) to that with 2300. As a professional writer, I'd rather have submitted the work, been paid and not seen it published that to retain rights to unpublished work - because this is my job. If it were a labour of love, then I'd be gnawing my nails wanting to see it in print.

But there's nothing any of us can do.

 

[mbrinkhues]

My suggestion for a third try (that is something else than simply a new publisher for T2320) would be to go GURPS. The reasons:


+ SJG already has the Traveller licence and LKW so they should be talking to MWM

+ They have a decend Vehicle Build System that can be simplified enough to be both useful and quick

+ The game system is rugged and workable, allowing very flexible characters as well as a decend military background, covering both elements of 2300. OTOH it is well documentet and easily ported over to other systems (All success chances are known etc)

+ The Infrastructure to sell/market the game is there. SJG is a rather well known company that is present on conventions etc so they can push the game beyond the "Grognards".

Avenger is all nice (and I like my 1248 books) but not very well known. Only very active/interestes game-shops here in germany (and only after being triggered) knew about it and order from there. OTOH SJG products are generally available "automatically"

 

[MJD]

On order to do that, someone would have to get a new license from Marc. Given that QLI holds one, it's not doable until that license expires.

 

[stofsk]

Has anyone talked to Hunter?

No, I don't mean dropping an email into his inbox. I mean picked up the phone, dialing a number, and talking to the guy in person?

 

[MJD]

Yes, I have been known to try that.

I last spoke to Hunter (the tail end of a week-long email conversation) on September 19th 2006.

Prior to that week my previous communication was sometime in Sept/Oct 2005.

I was at the time QLI's Traveller line editor, the author of 90% of the company's output, and generally integral to getting prodict out the door.

Now, if Hunter can't find time to talk to *me*, I'm going to take a WAG here and postulate that he's not in much of a position to talk to anyone. That may change as the chaos recedes, but I'm not seeing any signs of it right now.

Again, at risk of being arrogant, I'd expect that once Hunter was in position to start publishing again he'd want to talk to me about getting some product written or maybe sorting out the T20 players book. That's not happened yet so I guess things still aren't right.

Before anyone makes the obvious comment, yes, I could keep prodding, but I've grown tired of doing that when Hunter isn't in a position to respond. Besises, a couple fo years back QLI *was* my job and I needed QLI in order to make a living.

These days I have more work than I can do for Amber Books, plus anything I care to write I can publish through Avenger/Comstar. There's nothing to gain for me by harassing Hunter - I don't believe he's in a position to do anything with any work I do put in right now, and I have more pressing matters to attend to.

So, by all means try try to find out what's going on, but lacking much concrete information I'd have to say that your chances aren't good. By all means try, but don't hassle the poor guy too much.

 

[flykiller]

jus' a game, guys.

hunter, you do whatever you need to do.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by flykiller:
jus' a game, guys.

...that Colin and several others have put a lot of their time and effort into producing, with nothing to show for it after several years despite Hunter repeatedly saying that he's "back". They don't even have any guarantee at all that the thing is going to be published at all. I think people are quite entitled to get frustrated about this.

If Hunter really is "back" then he needs to start communicating with people again and get this product out of the door. It's not like there's really anything else that's ready to be published, so this should be his highest priority now.

 

[MJD]

This game is also a significant part of my job. Considering I've received actual death threats from people with nothing more riding on the game than their own recreation, I think I'm entitled to be concerned about a game that I have a significant financial stake in.

I have nothing at stake wth 2320. I stayed away from this project as well as Honor Harrington and Legacy of the Aldenata, as I already had enough on my plate with just doing Traveller. But all the same I understand Colin's frustration.

Being pestered for updates and bombarded with 'why don't you just...' type mails is also upsetting. I find queries to me about QLI most irritating.

If I don't answer, people get upset with me and by inference, Avenger Enterprises. But time spent endlessly typing 'I dunno' is wasted. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

All these problems will go away once Hunter truly gets back and deals with all the outstanding issues, but until then there's a lot of problems and people asking Colin, Me, etc why we don't 'just ...' don't help much.

 

[Colin]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flykiller:
jus' a game, guys.

...that Colin and several others have put a lot of their time and effort into producing, with nothing to show for it after several years despite Hunter repeatedly saying that he's "back". <snip> </font>[/QUOTE]I definitely got something out of it. I got paid. But others did not, and the only way for them to get paid, it seems, is for 2320AD to come to fruition. Not to mention that I would really like to see it in print.

 

[TWILIGHT]

I think patience is in order. I know, I myself have lost it to a degree but i'm just frustrated because of something to do with 2320 I'm not gonna mention here but it meant a lot to me.

"Death threats"? Jesus! Grow up people.

MJD - for god's sake keep going with Avenger. the 1248 stuff is amazing!

All I'm saying is lets try to be more constructive rather than critical. We don't know whats up with hunter. It could be something that will make us feel really crap for hassling him. Is there ANYTHING we could do to either encourage him to print or help him move forward and away from the problems that are holding him back? If there's anything I can do mate... let me know.

 

[MJD]

Yup, actual death threats.

And a few unpleasant mails that weren't actually Federal offences but were just... unpleasant.

All I can say for sure is that if Hunter doesn't have time to talk to me of all people, hassling him about trivia isn't going to work.

Having said that, I'm sure people with good ideas for how to help out would be well received.

 

[siefertma2]

Originally posted by TWILIGHT:

All I'm saying is lets try to be more constructive rather than critical. We don't know whats up with hunter. It could be something that will make us feel really crap for hassling him. Is there ANYTHING we could do to either encourage him to print or help him move forward and away from the problems that are holding him back? If there's anything I can do mate... let me know.

That's the real trouble, we don't know because he hasn't let us know what's going on. I also would be so critical if we actually knew if any work was being done on it: Sample pages, production updates, etc..

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Mark A. Siefert:
That's the real trouble, we don't know because he hasn't let us know what's going on. I also would be so critical if we actually knew if any work was being done on it: Sample pages, production updates, etc.. [/QB]

Hunter's clearly around, he posted earlier today. Maybe he doesn't want to say anything til something solid is on offer, but I think he should tell us at least whether it's being worked on or not, or if it's even on the radar...

 

[MJD]

I would imagine it to be a priority to talk to the authors involved at the very least. The fact that Hunter is too busy to do that suggests that things haven't yet returned to anything like normal.

Speaking from my own persective: 'we all make our choices' - and sometimes those choices are dictated by circumstances beyond our control. Obviously, Hunter never intended to be dead in the water for months on end, but it's happened and it'll get sorted out sooner or later.

The problem is that other people make their own choices in the interim. And some of them are also dictated by citcumstances. In my own case I had to make the choice to take Avenger out solo, which was more trouble than I wanted to go to at the time. It was necessary though, in order to make some return on my work.

There are four entire books (1248, Starfall, Homecoming and T20 players book) that I wrote expecting to submit to QLI, get paid, and live off the money I made on them. In the end I had to set up Avenger to get some return on them. Had received any communication from Hunter during that time I might have hung on, but the long silence eventually eroded my confidence.

So, I do think that while announcements to the world aren't necessarily the besy option, some discussion with the relevant people might be a good idea, if only to keep them interested while Hunter gets things sorted out.

 

[MJD]

Those four books represent about a year's work for me, and during mt 'QLI period' I pretty much stopped doing other work. So QLI's problems hit me very hard and I'm still paying for the results.

I've spent the past year rebuilding my career (very successfully, it seems) but I lost a LOT when QLI faltered. None of that was Hunter's fault, of course, but I'm hesitant to commit to anything new.

As an exaple, the Homecoming adventure was ready to go through Avenger 4 months ago when Hunter returned. I'd prefer to publish it through QLI for product-line-elegance reasons so when Hunter offered me reasonable terms I was agreeable.

We didn't come to a final agreement, and that was 4 months ago. So I've ended up sitting on a product for ANOTHER 4 months that could have been earning for me. In the end I decided to publish it - it's due out in a few days/weeks.

I don't know what Hunter's reaction to this will be. I HOPE he understands that I have to make a living too and while his situation isn't his fault, I can only suffer so much as a result before I have to do something about it.

That leaves the T20 players' book of course. I can't publish that without a T20 license, which I don't have. I did the work but have never been paid anything for it, so the copyright is entirely mine. Only I can't do anything with it.

So let's hope Hunter gets back on his feet and QLI once again becomes a viable company so I can make some money. And for less selfish reasons too....

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

I understand about patience, and I *well* understand life throwing you for a loop, but its been two years of this stuff.

I'm not violently upset by any of this, but I *am* a Traveller geek. We've been waiting for 10 barking years for our favorite game to get back on track. We have people who have submitted publishable materials. We have people who are not getting the orders they paid for (although, in the case I'm thinking of, I believe he finally got his product).

Its crap like this that got GDW to shut down, and I'd really, REALLY like that to not happen here. I am frustrated about it and impotent to do anything about it, so all I can do is gripe on the forum. Nevertheless, I suppose patience is called for. After all, the specific crank we're all sharing is that we want a property lisenceed by QLI to be published. Hunter has every legal right to do as he is doing now.

But I get a real 'Digest Group' kinda feeling about this.

 

[Roger Calver]

Death threats WTF is all that about, come on its a game nothing more nothing less some people need to get a grip on reality.
Yes I want to see 2320AD released in any format and speaking the truth here if its not by QLI then who ever gets to bring it out then so be it.
I would think thats it not to much to ask if at the very least Hunter can give people a quick update every now and then to let his public (and maybe buyers) know what the score is with anything thats on his to-be released list.
And there is a very BIG reason for any D20 based stuff he has to brought out ASAP and thats the soon'ish D&D 4th Edition (when ever it come out that is), strike while the irons hot or face maybe looking at a rewrite to keep it in line with any changes to the systems mechanics (and there will be "some").

 

[Malenfant]

I think Hunter needs to find someone to delegate to, someone who can run the company while he sorts things out. Unfortunately I don't think there's anyone around (here, at least) who is in a position to do that.

But it seems quite clear to me that he still isn't able to get things running in a timely manner - a year's gap, followed by "I'm back", followed by another four months of silence and lack of communication isn't particularly encouraging, and the problem is that this really doesn't do anything to inspire confidence that he can get things really back up and running. We know he is around right now, but he really does need to start communicating with people (preferably authors) right now and get the large backlog of material cleared away and published.