The reason, I think, some of us may be a little (or a lot in some cases) peeved is that we all love 2300AD and we can all see the signs that it's slipping down the toilet. The fans at large have lost faith in Hunter and are losing it in QLI. The crazy thing is it could be all repaired quite easily with communication. A serious note here. Those who are owed money by Hunter can asked for the company to be audited and put into receivership. We all want to avoid this as I think T20 is the best Traveller product for years (sorry Loren!) but people are gonna stop visiting these boards, no-one will wait forever for a game they enjoy. Eventually the rights will expire and Marc will release it himself or do a new version. Who knows?...and if it carries on like this, who'll care?
2320AD
- Thread starter Colin
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Roger Calver
Guest
Communication is the key here, just a simple response could put all of this behind him.
As he has paid Colin for 2320AD all that he needs to do is sort out any other freelancers and then get it out maybe first as a PDF to get money and then as a POD by Lulu or someother service to cut down his costs if thats one of the problems.
And when the rights expire his screwed so work fast or loss out, if Hunter you need some help with things then just ask im sure that you will get a response in here.
As he has paid Colin for 2320AD all that he needs to do is sort out any other freelancers and then get it out maybe first as a PDF to get money and then as a POD by Lulu or someother service to cut down his costs if thats one of the problems.
And when the rights expire his screwed so work fast or loss out, if Hunter you need some help with things then just ask im sure that you will get a response in here.
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Malenfant
Guest
Come on flykiller, you've got to be smarter than that surely.
A lot of people put a lot of work into 2320AD, as authors, artists and playtesters. And when something like this is advertised, of course people are going to be excited about it. And when it's delayed, and delayed, and delayed - especially when it's all but finished too - then people are going to get frustrated about it and are quite entitled to do so. Especially when nobody is saying anything about what is going on to delay it for so long - particularly when the guy in control is supposedly "back" but evidently isn't really.
As for saying "what exactly are you waiting for that you can't do yourself", that's a stupid question frankly. We shouldn't NEED to do any of this ourselves because it's already been done. It's right there, yet it's out of reach because Colin's hands are tied since he can't get in touch with Hunter and Hunter isn't talking to anyone.
The situation is utterly ridiculous. If Hunter really is back then he should start acting like he's back and get things out of the door and communicating with people. If he's not back, then he owes everyone here an apology and an explanation for getting their hopes up that things will be moving again in the near future when obvious that they won't be. For crying out loud, the first thing he should have done is to get back in touch with authors and made arrangements to either return their material to them or get it published.
I'm sorry, but the time for sympathy is over, and my own patience has run out. Fact of the matter is that Hunter needs to get things moving here if his business is to survive. If his customers have no faith that he'll deliver the goods, then the only way that QLI can go is down.
The only other alternative I see is for Hunter to sell QLI. Maybe Comstar would be interested in buying the company from him, assuming it's even saleable in the state it's in. Then at least something might get moving again - but it seems clear to me that despite his best intentions Hunter either doesn't have the time or the resources (or maybe even the inclination) to deal with QLI anymore. I'd love to believe otherwise, but I simply haven't seen any evidence to indicate that this conclusion is wrong.
A lot of people put a lot of work into 2320AD, as authors, artists and playtesters. And when something like this is advertised, of course people are going to be excited about it. And when it's delayed, and delayed, and delayed - especially when it's all but finished too - then people are going to get frustrated about it and are quite entitled to do so. Especially when nobody is saying anything about what is going on to delay it for so long - particularly when the guy in control is supposedly "back" but evidently isn't really.
As for saying "what exactly are you waiting for that you can't do yourself", that's a stupid question frankly. We shouldn't NEED to do any of this ourselves because it's already been done. It's right there, yet it's out of reach because Colin's hands are tied since he can't get in touch with Hunter and Hunter isn't talking to anyone.
The situation is utterly ridiculous. If Hunter really is back then he should start acting like he's back and get things out of the door and communicating with people. If he's not back, then he owes everyone here an apology and an explanation for getting their hopes up that things will be moving again in the near future when obvious that they won't be. For crying out loud, the first thing he should have done is to get back in touch with authors and made arrangements to either return their material to them or get it published.
I'm sorry, but the time for sympathy is over, and my own patience has run out. Fact of the matter is that Hunter needs to get things moving here if his business is to survive. If his customers have no faith that he'll deliver the goods, then the only way that QLI can go is down.
The only other alternative I see is for Hunter to sell QLI. Maybe Comstar would be interested in buying the company from him, assuming it's even saleable in the state it's in. Then at least something might get moving again - but it seems clear to me that despite his best intentions Hunter either doesn't have the time or the resources (or maybe even the inclination) to deal with QLI anymore. I'd love to believe otherwise, but I simply haven't seen any evidence to indicate that this conclusion is wrong.
FYI Flykiller I've been playing 2300AD using the BRP system for 20 years and this isn't the period when the boards have been most active. I also have a vested interest in this project... not only have I been a fan of 2300 since it's inception but I also had a hope (albeit slim) of getting a starship schematic into a sourcebook. I'm not as angry as Malenfant (although his viewpoint is entirely valid) but that's because I'm freelancing for a company bringing out a game VERY similar to 2300AD and I enjoy the setting but not the 2300 rules.Oh, and I also own similar settings and games. I, on the other hand don't think Hunter owes an apology. Whatever has gone on in hunters life (and I know a little of this and it has been horrendous) he has NOTHING to apologise for. I've been waiting for the new Glorantha sourcebook for years but I'm not gonna e-mail Greg Stafford and shout at him "where's my F***** book?". I'm a 'fix-the-problem-not-the-blame' person.... I just want him to move forward and if not QLI then definately COMSTAR. Their stuff's great. PLEASE Hunter I'm taking a risk here but it's worth it.... here's my number. If I can help at all...even if you just want to explain the issue/problem/concerns so we can move on with QLI. +44 785-403-7662. Bear in mind I'm in the UK so try not to ring me at 4am! If you're a regular visitor to these board you're also welcome to take my number.
Eternal optimist me.
Eternal optimist me.
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Roger Calver
Guest
Twilight putting personal info on a public forum is a tad risky, but then again i do see your point if your a moot subscriber then maybe put it in there more secure.
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Roger Calver
Guest
Also ALL of the emails get bounced back to me when sent so whats that all about, any one got a telephone number for QLI thats not a fax ?
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Malenfant
Guest
Even MJD couldn't get in touch with Hunter while he was gone. Hunter seems very uncontactable - nobody can phone him, emails bounds, PMs are full... that was bad enough when he was gone, but for that to continue when he is supposedly back on the boards (and the last time he posted wasn't all that long ago - Jan 18th I think) is inexcusable.
Again, it all boils down to communication, or rather the lack of it. I'm not angry per se... just very frustrated and disappointed.
Again, it all boils down to communication, or rather the lack of it. I'm not angry per se... just very frustrated and disappointed.
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Roger Calver
Guest
Has any one tried "reporting a post" option to send a message to him yet ?
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Malenfant
Guest
I think 'report post' only goes to Mods.
well I do have to admit that I approach this only as a hobbyist, so the two obvious answers to my question of "what do you need from a gaming company that you can't do yourself?" don't readily occur to me - those two answers being "to get published" and "to get paid". sure, seeing one's name printed in a credit listing or making money or even making a living off of one's hobby is a common dream. but to expect it, especially from a company as thin as QLI and a market as thin as traveller and a fan base as independent and prolific as ours, is ... unrealistic. and to have "valid anger" when it doesn't happen is overblown.
for me, traveller is a fun hobby. if it becomes a job, well ... good luck with that.
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Malenfant
Guest
Saying "well, good luck with that" to people who have basically been hung out to dry here because they haven't been paid or are seeing what they have been paid for tossed into an endless limbo due to continuing inaction and lack of communication strikes me as being somewhat self-centred to say the least.
Here is the "State of the Imperium" as I see it now:
For the past 15 months or so QLI has been a zombie company with an increasingly bad reputation for lack of service and lack of communication. Several people have complained that they've bought products that they can't access, and nobody is on hand to help them. There is probably a backlog of orders to fill as well. There are fully-written books and supplements to get out of the door (some of which have been paid for). It took the action of a private individual to prevent the registration of the CotI server from timing out. One of the key members of the company got sick of waiting and founded his own company in the meantime (which fortunately seems to be doing fine). People have paid money for pre-orders that in the end weren't even published by QLI (me, I'm waiting for a substantial international mailing fee to get refunded at the very least). At least one lucrative RPG license has expired through neglect. The list goes on.
Since Hunter's "return" he has made available PDF copies of the core rulebook and setting book - I'm guessing to try to generate some revenue again - but that's all. Authors for outstanding works (e.g. Colin) have not received any further communication about their projects. No public announcements have been made proposing any further projects. No substantial updates have been posted to the community about Hunter's plans to get the company back on its knees (getting on its feet come later). There is no sign of any improvement on the horizon either.
That certainly isn't the "State of the Imperium" I'd like to see, but that is basically what we've got here. If Hunter really had returned in October/November then we should have seen a lot more improvement and action and communication over the past few months than what we got. And yet still we have nothing but silence.
I know I'm not the only frustrated, disappointed person here, and the numbers are growing and have been growing for a while. People are losing faith in QLI and in Hunter's abilities to make any difference here, and that is not a good place for a company to be.
I've said all I have to say about Hunter's absence, because I get the feeling I'm talking to thin air here - but if this sort of thing won't get Hunter to finally start talking to people and telling us what's going on and taking some decisive action to get things moving then nothing will.
Here is the "State of the Imperium" as I see it now:
For the past 15 months or so QLI has been a zombie company with an increasingly bad reputation for lack of service and lack of communication. Several people have complained that they've bought products that they can't access, and nobody is on hand to help them. There is probably a backlog of orders to fill as well. There are fully-written books and supplements to get out of the door (some of which have been paid for). It took the action of a private individual to prevent the registration of the CotI server from timing out. One of the key members of the company got sick of waiting and founded his own company in the meantime (which fortunately seems to be doing fine). People have paid money for pre-orders that in the end weren't even published by QLI (me, I'm waiting for a substantial international mailing fee to get refunded at the very least). At least one lucrative RPG license has expired through neglect. The list goes on.
Since Hunter's "return" he has made available PDF copies of the core rulebook and setting book - I'm guessing to try to generate some revenue again - but that's all. Authors for outstanding works (e.g. Colin) have not received any further communication about their projects. No public announcements have been made proposing any further projects. No substantial updates have been posted to the community about Hunter's plans to get the company back on its knees (getting on its feet come later). There is no sign of any improvement on the horizon either.
That certainly isn't the "State of the Imperium" I'd like to see, but that is basically what we've got here. If Hunter really had returned in October/November then we should have seen a lot more improvement and action and communication over the past few months than what we got. And yet still we have nothing but silence.
I know I'm not the only frustrated, disappointed person here, and the numbers are growing and have been growing for a while. People are losing faith in QLI and in Hunter's abilities to make any difference here, and that is not a good place for a company to be.
I've said all I have to say about Hunter's absence, because I get the feeling I'm talking to thin air here - but if this sort of thing won't get Hunter to finally start talking to people and telling us what's going on and taking some decisive action to get things moving then nothing will.
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Malenfant
Guest
Anyway, getting back to the subject:
Colin - isn't Marc the ultimate arbiter of who can have the rights to 2320AD? Is it not possible to come to an arrangement with him to get your work back so you can publish it elsewhere? There's got to be more that you can do here - even if it involves lawyers somewhere along the line. You can't wait forever here.
Colin - isn't Marc the ultimate arbiter of who can have the rights to 2320AD? Is it not possible to come to an arrangement with him to get your work back so you can publish it elsewhere? There's got to be more that you can do here - even if it involves lawyers somewhere along the line. You can't wait forever here.
I didn't expect it. Colin just sounded me out about it being a slim possibility. NOTHING was decided.
Traveller's isn't as thin as you'd think and with the right team behind it could be as popular as any rpg. Not sure where I exhibited "valid anger" but if I did I apologise.
Oh, and as a cartographer for 2 game companies I make a decent enough living not to have to wait for QLI. I just respect Colin and his work and it would've been nice to have had a part (albeit only a fold-out starship schematic) in 2320.
Sorry if this sounds confrontational...but hey 'Rebellion' is my favourite milieu
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Roger Calver
Guest
Mal, your "State of the Imperium" does its sorry to say reflect QLI's current situation.
With each day we see more complaints than answers and soon somethings got to give, even the people who still want to see QLI continue are getting to see a dark ending to it and thats nothing to any new customers who are either having problems with no answers or have brought a copy from a FLGS and want more, seeing all of these negative comments is just BAD business relations.
Colin and any other freelancers be them paid or not must now be looking at what options do they have to get their works published, with the licenses there must be a timeout on them and some I would think have expired now.
So either he gets them out or back in real playtesting or call time on them and scrap them, not the answer I would like but the time is now to make these hard decisions.
If the good ship QLI doenst soon apply reverse thrusters the black hole is going to consume it and then its lost in the darkness, PLEASE dont let this happen !
With each day we see more complaints than answers and soon somethings got to give, even the people who still want to see QLI continue are getting to see a dark ending to it and thats nothing to any new customers who are either having problems with no answers or have brought a copy from a FLGS and want more, seeing all of these negative comments is just BAD business relations.
Colin and any other freelancers be them paid or not must now be looking at what options do they have to get their works published, with the licenses there must be a timeout on them and some I would think have expired now.
So either he gets them out or back in real playtesting or call time on them and scrap them, not the answer I would like but the time is now to make these hard decisions.
If the good ship QLI doenst soon apply reverse thrusters the black hole is going to consume it and then its lost in the darkness, PLEASE dont let this happen !
Can I have my goat back please?
I'd better explain that comment. Flykiller's 'good luck with that' comment got my goat (annoyed me, for non-British English speakers). It pretty much sums up what's wrong with the games industry.
In every other corner of publishing, when a professional writer (say for example, me) is commissioned to do some work and expects to get paid for it, and doesn't, people are surprised and consider it a bad thing. Why then is it that in this industry the response is 'hey, it's just a hobby'?
Why should writers NOT be expecting to get paid?
I've been messed about by more games industry publishers than not. Most of them are small outfits that are often little more than fanboys publishing game stuff. Folks like Mongoose, on the other hand, pay on time and have a good rep for playing fair by their freelancers (deservedly so). Ie they behave like a professioanl publisher who just happens to be publishing game stuff.
Once you start offering writers money for the rights to make a profit off their work, you're entering the realm of professional publishing. The fact that so many people think 'well, good luck with that' is a symptom of what's wrong with this industry.
I make my living as a writer. Whether I'm writing about new Nissan cars (done that), a history of land warfare (doing that) or a game supplement about moon men and their space saucers, my mortgage still needs paying.
I'd better explain that comment. Flykiller's 'good luck with that' comment got my goat (annoyed me, for non-British English speakers). It pretty much sums up what's wrong with the games industry.
In every other corner of publishing, when a professional writer (say for example, me) is commissioned to do some work and expects to get paid for it, and doesn't, people are surprised and consider it a bad thing. Why then is it that in this industry the response is 'hey, it's just a hobby'?
Why should writers NOT be expecting to get paid?
I've been messed about by more games industry publishers than not. Most of them are small outfits that are often little more than fanboys publishing game stuff. Folks like Mongoose, on the other hand, pay on time and have a good rep for playing fair by their freelancers (deservedly so). Ie they behave like a professioanl publisher who just happens to be publishing game stuff.
Once you start offering writers money for the rights to make a profit off their work, you're entering the realm of professional publishing. The fact that so many people think 'well, good luck with that' is a symptom of what's wrong with this industry.
I make my living as a writer. Whether I'm writing about new Nissan cars (done that), a history of land warfare (doing that) or a game supplement about moon men and their space saucers, my mortgage still needs paying.
I would thus contend that it is not unreasonable for someone who has a deal with a publisher to expect to get paid. I'm not talking about QLI here, I'm speaking in general about the whole games industry. When, say, Imperium Games decided not to pay me the reduced fee for my work they, err, 'regnegotiated' and even gave me a new contract for, they caused me exactly the same problem you'd have if your employer decided not to pay you this month.
Case in point: I wrote four entire books 'for QLI', ie on the expectation they'd publish them and pay me - Homecoming, T20 Players Book, 1248, Starfall. That's about a year's work you're looking at there. What am I supposed to do if publication falls through? Ring my bank and tell them I won't be paying for my house or bills this year?
According to Mr Flykiller, the answer would seem to be yes. After all, this is just a hobby industry.
Except for those of us who CAN make a living in this industry, if we can only get paid for the work we've done.
Umm, rant over....
Case in point: I wrote four entire books 'for QLI', ie on the expectation they'd publish them and pay me - Homecoming, T20 Players Book, 1248, Starfall. That's about a year's work you're looking at there. What am I supposed to do if publication falls through? Ring my bank and tell them I won't be paying for my house or bills this year?
According to Mr Flykiller, the answer would seem to be yes. After all, this is just a hobby industry.
Except for those of us who CAN make a living in this industry, if we can only get paid for the work we've done.
Umm, rant over....
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Malenfant
Guest
I wonder if thats why SJG paid us (myself and the other authors of TS: Under Pressure) when the book hit the shelves, instead of in advance. If anything went wrong and for some reason they couldn't publish then maybe that meant they could return the IP to the authors that way.
The problem in Colin's case is that he's been paid, which may be good for him financially, and maybe means that QLI has no further legal obligation to do anything with the work because of that... but it means that there's this now almost-complete product just gathering dust in limbo now instead of being out there impressing people and inspiring them to play and think about it. And more to the point, it's not making QLI any money at all while it's in limbo - you'd think that Hunter would be wanting to at least try to make back the money he paid (which I'm sure, as is common in this industry, much less than what the work is actually worth).
As far as I'm concerned QLI at least has a moral obligation to publish and make available work that has been paid for - that is after all the whole point of writing a book in the first place. And obviously they have an economic obligation to themselves to get the book out there and generating money for them. That's why Colin's situation is so deeply unsatisfying (if not totally unfair on him).
The problem in Colin's case is that he's been paid, which may be good for him financially, and maybe means that QLI has no further legal obligation to do anything with the work because of that... but it means that there's this now almost-complete product just gathering dust in limbo now instead of being out there impressing people and inspiring them to play and think about it. And more to the point, it's not making QLI any money at all while it's in limbo - you'd think that Hunter would be wanting to at least try to make back the money he paid (which I'm sure, as is common in this industry, much less than what the work is actually worth).
As far as I'm concerned QLI at least has a moral obligation to publish and make available work that has been paid for - that is after all the whole point of writing a book in the first place. And obviously they have an economic obligation to themselves to get the book out there and generating money for them. That's why Colin's situation is so deeply unsatisfying (if not totally unfair on him).
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