50 ton Jump capable Escape Boat....no new tech needed.

[wbyrd]

In another thread Atpollard came up wit an idea for a work around of the no jump drives in small craft rule....and ran with it.... first to create a jump capable cutter used as a life boat for a starship.:CoW::CoW::CoW::CoW:

1. Use the JD-A.
2. Add fittings for a drop tank that will bring the volume to 100 dT, but do not install a drop tank.
3. Add an inflatable fuel bladder to the drop tank fitting that is the same size as the drop tank.
4. recess the volume required for the deflated fuel bladder into the hull of the ship (perhaps using the design for an air lock as a guide).

When your [let's say 50 dTon] small craft wants to jump, it inflates the [50 dTon] bladder and suddenly becomes a 100 dTon ship with PP-A and JD-A.
When it arrives at its destination, it deflates the bladder and becomes a 50 dTon small craft.

[Rules stretched a bit, but none were broken.]

if you were building a life pod for a starship, a small craft with 50 acceleration couches, 25 tons, a type starship power plant, cockpit, computer, and basic type SA reaction drives with one hour of fuel to get the pod away from the ship.

lets see,

Type a Star ship J-drive and power plant 14 tons...
acceleration couches for 40 people...20 tons
.cockpit...1.5....
fuel 12 tons ( jump + 4 weeks reactor fuel)
type C Gravitic drive 2.5 tons.
bladder system. 2 tons
..Overweight by 2 tons....

so drop the M-drive..replace with a 0.5 ton reaction drive Type sC using reactor fuel for reaction mass...add heat shielding and streamlining so it can make an powered atmospheric entry..and yer done

Passengers are given a dose of slow drug to put them out, an auto-doc on the pod administers antidote..pilot first (a day before the pod emerges from Jump) pilot then locates a safe landing spot, gives the ship a gentle nudge to get it going in the right direction..and there ya go.Jump 1 40 person Escape boat, in a 50 ton hull..


This was just a rough idea I had in my head, the details would need to be added...and the bladder system properly statted ad given a cost...and sweet talked past the rules guardians....but using that system you can build a nice tidy jump small craft...a 50 ton craft, with 20 usable tons, and J-1 range.....:coffeesip:

 

[aramis]

Actually, that dodge was in a TNE era product, tho' I can't recall which at the moment.

 

[wbyrd]

Actually, that dodge was in a TNE era product, tho' I can't recall which at the moment.

I need to go dust off that TNE stuff then..maybe some other good ideas.

 

[RandyB]

In another thread Atpollard came up wit an idea for a work around of the no jump drives in small craft rule....and ran with it.... first to create a jump capable cutter used as a life boat for a starship.:CoW::CoW::CoW::CoW:




if you were building a life pod for a starship, a small craft with 50 acceleration couches, 25 tons, a type starship power plant, cockpit, computer, and basic type SA reaction drives with one hour of fuel to get the pod away from the ship.

lets see,

Type a Star ship J-drive and power plant 14 tons...
acceleration couches for 40 people...20 tons
.cockpit...1.5....
fuel 12 tons ( jump + 4 weeks reactor fuel)
type C Gravitic drive 2.5 tons.
bladder system. 2 tons
..Overweight by 2 tons....

so drop the M-drive..replace with a 0.5 ton reaction drive Type sC using reactor fuel for reaction mass...add heat shielding and streamlining so it can make an powered atmospheric entry..and yer done

Or drop the pax capacity from 40 to 36 and keep the M-drive.

 

[robject]

Using T5, two tons over doesn't invalidate the design. So that's OK. On the downside, I don't think fuel bladders are mentioned.

So, Craig and I developed jump-capable small craft using actual drop tanks. It's expensive, but then, it's a niche design.


Marauder Derjus-class Jump Fighter PN-AS42, TL 11, 100 tons, MCr 54.5 A minimal raiding platform, the Derjus-class Light Marauder is equipped like a slow fighter, except with twin grapples each capable of carrying an additional 35 tons. Typically the ship will carry a 35 ton fuel pod, to extend the ship's range up to 4 parsecs. The design has also been known to carry a 4G, 35 ton MUQB utility boat for assaults.

   Vol  No  Label                            MCr  Notes
 -----  --  ------------------------------ -----  ------------------------------
    65      Streamlined Hull, lifters          9  S, lifters                    
    10      Jump Fuel (1  parsec)              0  J1, 10t/pc                    
     4      Plant Fuel (one month)             0  one month                     
     1      Landing legs with pads             1                                
    10      Jump Drive-2 (A)                  10  J 2                           
     7      PowerPlant-4 (B)                   7  P 4                           
     3      Maneuver Drive-4 (B)               6  4 G                           
     1      Fuel Scoops                      0.1                                
     1      Fuel Purifiers                   0.1                                
     0      AV=11. 1 Kinetic Plate             0                                
     0      AR Surf Communicator             1.5  
     1      AR Ant Radar                     1.5                                
     0      AR Surf Scope                    1.5                                
     0      AR Surf Jammer                   1.5                                
     3      AR B1 Missile                    3.2                                
     4      Computer Model/2 fib             7.5                                
     1      Life Support Standard              1  10 person-months              
     4      Squad Barracks                   0.2  (5) R1 R1 R2 R2 R3            
   0.5      Crew Shared Fresher              0.5  4 crew                        
   0.5      Air Lock                         0.1                                
     1      Magazine                           0  50 x Size-5                   
     2      Crew Stateroom                   0.1  1 crew                        
     2   2  Grapples                           2  up to 35t                     
     3      Crew Lounge                        0
     6      Standard Controls                  0                                
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     0                              TOTALS    54

 

[flykiller]

50 acceleration couches

fifty people are going to spend a week in a 50 dton boat? ick.

 

[robject]

fifty people are going to spend a week in a 50 dton boat? ick.

There's another use for the bladder: when in realspace, inflate it and use it as a rec room.

 

[wbyrd]

Or drop the pax capacity from 40 to 36 and keep the M-drive.

I applied some design parameters to it....People over hardware...if it's purpose is transporting people. I decided the use of reaction drives would be more favorable. by adding heat shielding and streamlining it can use a free fall descent into atmosphere. The pilot would only need to burn 30 minutes of fuel to boost to up around 70k Kph...interplanetary speeds...and another 30 minutes to brake for atmospheric insertion, docking with a station,or pickup by a starship.

being able to constantly accelerate/maneuver isn't a must have.

Using T5, two tons over doesn't invalidate the design. So that's OK. On the downside, I don't think fuel bladders are mentioned.

So, Craig and I developed jump-capable small craft using actual drop tanks. It's expensive, but then, it's a niche design.


Marauder Derjus-class Jump Fighter PN-AS42, TL 11, 100 tons, MCr 54.5 A minimal raiding platform, the Derjus-class Light Marauder is equipped like a slow fighter, except with twin grapples each capable of carrying an additional 35 tons. Typically the ship will carry a 35 ton fuel pod, to extend the ship's range up to 4 parsecs. The design has also been known to carry a 4G, 35 ton MUQB utility boat for assaults.

   Vol  No  Label                            MCr  Notes
 -----  --  ------------------------------ -----  ------------------------------
    65      Streamlined Hull, lifters          9  S, lifters                    
    10      Jump Fuel (1  parsec)              0  J1, 10t/pc                    
     4      Plant Fuel (one month)             0  one month                     
     1      Landing legs with pads             1                                
    10      Jump Drive-2 (A)                  10  J 2                           
     7      PowerPlant-4 (B)                   7  P 4                           
     3      Maneuver Drive-4 (B)               6  4 G                           
     1      Fuel Scoops                      0.1                                
     1      Fuel Purifiers                   0.1                                
     0      AV=11. 1 Kinetic Plate             0                                
     0      AR Surf Communicator             1.5  
     1      AR Ant Radar                     1.5                                
     0      AR Surf Scope                    1.5                                
     0      AR Surf Jammer                   1.5                                
     3      AR B1 Missile                    3.2                                
     4      Computer Model/2 fib             7.5                                
     1      Life Support Standard              1  10 person-months              
     4      Squad Barracks                   0.2  (5) R1 R1 R2 R2 R3            
   0.5      Crew Shared Fresher              0.5  4 crew                        
   0.5      Air Lock                         0.1                                
     1      Magazine                           0  50 x Size-5                   
     2      Crew Stateroom                   0.1  1 crew                        
     2   2  Grapples                           2  up to 35t                     
     3      Crew Lounge                        0
     6      Standard Controls                  0                                
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     0                              TOTALS    54

The code didn't come through on your post, didn't see it until I quoted...

For personal use I fudge and allow 10% for tonnage...for publication, or public display I try t fit in the tonnage limit pretty closely...

I think at some point anyone who has the construction rules available take a swing at the idea. I like your fighter though..Not only would it be a good raider, it's fairly good as an escort for a commercial ship..it can fight until he ship jumps out then jump away to catch up.

which set of rules are you using.I can follow along the basics but some of the details are a bit fuzzy for me without a reference... only have the MgT rules in my head because I use them so much.

 

[wbyrd]

fifty people are going to spend a week in a 50 dton boat? ick.

Smell BO, and Bad breath for a couple of weeks or die floating in space...you do the math

Since the standard plan would be to administer fast drugs which put people out to save on life support. they wont know how bad it smells until they wake up.

 

[Scratches]

I'd think the megacorps and military would use bladders heavily if they were a good idea, and since they don't (to my knowledge), I suspect this idea must be flawed in some way.

A huge percentage of massive line freighters is going to be empty jump fuel storage that significantly impacts their M speed in system. If they can inflate bladders at need then why wouldn't they? Drop tanks have a built in control as they are ditched.

Though I think giving the players an inflatable starship for their ship shares would be hilarious.

 

[whartung]

The biggest problem with bladders is simply structural. In that they don't have any. The typical use of fuel bladders is to turn empty cargo space in to useful fuel tank space. In that case you inherit the implicit structure of the ship, and the bladder is simply a membrane to seal it off.

A free standing bladder would have more issues.

Now, you can ensconce them in to, say, a wire mesh/netting, but even then you still have a big blob that's not going to want to accelerate/decelerate the way the rest of the ship does.

As a general rule, we don't spend any time on load balancing and partitioning in our ships, but that doesn't mean the problem just "goes away". Just imagine, say, riding a bicycle with a huge, filled, water balloon on it. Your Center of Gravity is going to be all over the map.

Finally, seems that the idea that a 50dTon plastic bag filled with air is all that is necessary to get around the "100dton Jump rule". Sounds munchkin to me.

TNE, as I recall, doesn't have this limitation. FF&S certainly doesn't.

 

[Scratches]

You just know General Products, LIC has produced something like that.

 

[wbyrd]

The biggest problem with bladders is simply structural. In that they don't have any. The typical use of fuel bladders is to turn empty cargo space in to useful fuel tank space. In that case you inherit the implicit structure of the ship, and the bladder is simply a membrane to seal it off.

A free standing bladder would have more issues.

Now, you can ensconce them in to, say, a wire mesh/netting, but even then you still have a big blob that's not going to want to accelerate/decelerate the way the rest of the ship does.

As a general rule, we don't spend any time on load balancing and partitioning in our ships, but that doesn't mean the problem just "goes away". Just imagine, say, riding a bicycle with a huge, filled, water balloon on it. Your Center of Gravity is going to be all over the map.

Finally, seems that the idea that a 50dTon plastic bag filled with air is all that is necessary to get around the "100dton Jump rule". Sounds munchkin to me.

TNE, as I recall, doesn't have this limitation. FF&S certainly doesn't.

I think the final product would have to be more than a blow up bag, in terms of hardware, and such.... But it was an interesting idea. The problem of building a floating tank was partially solved by simply adding some caulk and burlap screens to a tank...or the problem of landing zones being too soft was fixed by using a fabric screen rolled out in front of a vehicle...or they welded some cut up beech obstructions to a tank and managed to bypass a serious problem with tanks in hedgerows....Sometimes answered are that simple and munckinish....heck they repaired Skylab with a sheet of Mylar and fitted Hubble with contact lenses...

I'd probably add some sort of electromagnetic mesh to create a virtual hull of sufficient ruggedness to avoid being crushed, or slagged by the stresses of the jump bubble.

 

[robject]

which set of rules are you using.I can follow along the basics but some of the details are a bit fuzzy for me without a reference... only have the MgT rules in my head because I use them so much.

Traveller5, which is only generally somewhat compatible with MgT.

 

[flykiller]

inflatable starship

the hindenberg.

another way around the 100dton limit is to say jump drives need not be internal to the ship. this would allow jump gates. <fling> "next!" <fling> "next!" <fling> ... no good for warships or exploration or free traders, but great for regular commerce and mail runs.

 

[wbyrd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gGygxDIJX0

A jump catapult is a good idea, I think that has come up a couple of times.

 

[rancke]

Actually, that dodge was in a TNE era product, tho' I can't recall which at the moment.

It's also similar to my jump torpedo idea.


Hans

 

[Scratches]

another way around the 100dton limit is to say jump drives need not be internal to the ship. this would allow jump gates. <fling> "next!" <fling> "next!" <fling> ... no good for warships or exploration or free traders, but great for regular commerce and mail runs.

Are you kidding, the military would love that! Jumping in fleets of warships that are all m-drive and spinal mounts, no wasted space at all. Send in a tender to pick up the pieces later.

Great for ATU.

 

[wbyrd]

Are you kidding, the military would love that! Jumping in fleets of warships that are all m-drive and spinal mounts, no wasted space at all. Send in a tender to pick up the pieces later.

Great for ATU.

Gate-ships are pretty standard in fiction..and are part of the EVE online game...they are near instant duration gates instead of jump drive but having a ship that can fire battlecraft across parsecs depositing them right in the enemies backyard would definitely be given a close look.

Same way with small craft that can go into jumpspace. Having a fighter/strike ship that's able to jump into or out of a system without needing a much more expensive starship to go with it.

 

[BlackBat242]

fifty people are going to spend a week in a 50 dton boat? ick.

There's another use for the bladder: when in realspace, inflate it and use it as a rec room.

I'd use it as a waste receptacle - that way you can skip the solid waste recycling equipment, and also have somewhere to put the wastes removed from the air/water/(urine).

The biggest problem with bladders is simply structural. In that they don't have any. The typical use of fuel bladders is to turn empty cargo space in to useful fuel tank space. In that case you inherit the implicit structure of the ship, and the bladder is simply a membrane to seal it off.

A free standing bladder would have more issues.

Now, you can ensconce them in to, say, a wire mesh/netting, but even then you still have a big blob that's not going to want to accelerate/decelerate the way the rest of the ship does.

As a general rule, we don't spend any time on load balancing and partitioning in our ships, but that doesn't mean the problem just "goes away". Just imagine, say, riding a bicycle with a huge, filled, water balloon on it. Your Center of Gravity is going to be all over the map.

I wasn't aware the ship maneuvered in J-space. Where did you read this?

Remember - the bladder is only inflated just before entering jump (after pre-jump maneuvers are completed) - and is jettisoned immediately after exiting jump (before any maneuvering is done).