50 ton Jump capable Escape Boat....no new tech needed.

[Scratches]

TL7 Jump Drive

 

[mike wightman]

Are you kidding, the military would love that! Jumping in fleets of warships that are all m-drive and spinal mounts, no wasted space at all. Send in a tender to pick up the pieces later.

Great for ATU.

Already doable with drop tanks.

 

[wbyrd]

Already doable with drop tanks.

True, but using a jump gate or similar system, the extra tonnage of the jump drive and jump fuel could be allocated to more combat related features..internal bulkheads, reinforced hull, extra armor, back up systems, etc...

 

[Condottiere]

Mongoose rules are enclosed volume, so a Transformer who can create a cargo space would qualify, though I'd look at it as gym space for the next week.

 

[wbyrd]

Mongoose rules are enclosed volume, so a Transformer who can create a cargo space would qualify, though I'd look at it as gym space for the next week.

I'd qualify that by saying the space would have to be sealed and reinforced either physically, or through use of gravitic/electromagnetic means.

so if the ship had a means of sealing off the space, gaskets and electromagnetic seals yeah... it could theoretically vary it's enclosed volume.Id assign the system some sort of tonnage to indicate the mechanisms and such...those folding panels would take up space when collapsed.

 

[kilemall]

I'd qualify that by saying the space would have to be sealed and reinforced either physically, or through use of gravitic/electromagnetic means.

so if the ship had a means of sealing off the space, gaskets and electromagnetic seals yeah... it could theoretically vary it's enclosed volume.Id assign the system some sort of tonnage to indicate the mechanisms and such...those folding panels would take up space when collapsed.

Along those lines I would likely rule illegal due to no lanthanum panels on exterior, and as I am persuaded is more and more a gravitic technology, would tear off on jump-space entry and be a great big misjump everytime.

 

[robject]

True, but using a jump gate or similar system, the extra tonnage of the jump drive and jump fuel could be allocated to more combat related features..internal bulkheads, reinforced hull, extra armor, back up systems, etc...

Just changes the nature of the game, maybe. All ships will be more nearly all payload. Balances out.

 

[mike wightman]

Shame about the jump net used by the jump tractor in S:9 :devil:

All you need to do is build the cabling into the inflatable hull extension and you are good canonically. :CoW:

 

[rancke]

Shame about the jump net used by the jump tractor in S:9 :devil:

All you need to do is build the cabling into the inflatable hull extension and you are good canonically. :CoW:

Indeed it is. Though I didn't see the need for inflation in my jump torpedo. Just some telescoping spars to extend the jump net.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

That works for me

I wonder just how small a package you can reduce the cabling/spars/bladder hull to?

 

[wbyrd]

That works for me

I wonder just how small a package you can reduce the cabling/spars/bladder hull to?

If it was fully inflatable, with a built in jump mesh/net....I'd say 1 ton of space for each 10 tons of extra volume. that allows for compressed bladder/mesh, connectors, etc...however the mesh/bladder would be destroyed if it got hit by any kind of enemy fire, or collision.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on the underlying transition mechanics.

Mongoose is jump bubbly, so my interpretation is anything that makes up an enclosed volume is valid, including debris.

Though anything not attached to the primary jump pod may drift outside the bubble, and it's time to roll for potential misjump, when that does happen.

 

[Condottiere]

Going with the bladder theme, I give you:

Starship: Rigid (Hull) Inflated Boat
. nicknamed Cabin Luggage and Gator

The forward section floor and roof are solid hull, but the walls are bladder balloons that can be inflated, creating the required enclosed space forward, while the floor and roof have the necessary artificial gravity modules.

The rear section contains engineering and the bridge.

Can be deflated, and the floor and roof come together.

 

[Ulsyus]

There's another use for the bladder: when in realspace, inflate it and use it as a rec room.

To quote: ick. No-one likes to go into empty fuel tanks in ships today. Even in the far future dual-using a fuel tank could be financially challenging

I'd think the megacorps and military would use bladders heavily if they were a good idea, and since they don't (to my knowledge), I suspect this idea must be flawed in some way.

Wouldn't that come down to a post-consideration game mechanic that explains why this doesn't work, just to maintain internal consistency with everything written before now?

The biggest problem with bladders is simply structural. In that they don't have any. The typical use of fuel bladders is to turn empty cargo space in to useful fuel tank space. In that case you inherit the implicit structure of the ship, and the bladder is simply a membrane to seal it off.

A free standing bladder would have more issues.

Now, you can ensconce them in to, say, a wire mesh/netting, but even then you still have a big blob that's not going to want to accelerate/decelerate the way the rest of the ship does.

As a general rule, we don't spend any time on load balancing and partitioning in our ships, but that doesn't mean the problem just "goes away". Just imagine, say, riding a bicycle with a huge, filled, water balloon on it. Your Center of Gravity is going to be all over the map.

Finally, seems that the idea that a 50dTon plastic bag filled with air is all that is necessary to get around the "100dton Jump rule". Sounds munchkin to me.

TNE, as I recall, doesn't have this limitation. FF&S certainly doesn't.

All good points, pointing in the direction of collapsible tanks rather than soft bladders

Shame about the jump net used by the jump tractor in S:9 :devil:

All you need to do is build the cabling into the inflatable hull extension and you are good canonically. :CoW:

Well, if the tank had a rigid but collapsible structure it could be engineered to contain the net, um, network. The tank wouldn't hold as much as an inflatable bladder that could be placed inside a cargo hold (see whartung's comments) but it would still provide additional fuel storage

 

[wbyrd]

one solution to the rigidity problem would be a memory metal...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape-memory_alloy
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a15773/shape-shifting-metal-alloy/
send a pulse of current through the metal and it unfolds into the expanded state and then acts as a reasonably rigid framework. The to stow it you send another pulse and it collapses back down into folded state, or becomes pliable then you just hit a retraction system and collapse it back to a compressed state.

As for using fuel cells as extra space..it would be a problem if you were using anything but liquid hydrogen... simply heat up the cell, flush it with inert gas..say CO2 from your scrubbers, and then vent to space a second time to expel the now gaseous Hydrogen.

Then it's a matter of installing flooring panels and some wall curtains to make it look and feel more like a ships compartment than a fuel tank....once you reach the destination, pull up the flooring and furniture store it in the closet, and flood the tanks with fuel again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflatable_space_habitat

 

[Selandia]

use the Matrochka principle (Russian Dolls, one encased inside the other)

50 t cutter, 5 dt "Matrochka module", than expand into a 4.9 dT+ a 4.8 dT+ 4.7 dT + ... +... until you have 100 dT total. You do not even need "hard" hydraulic since releasing the holding catch will have the internal pressure expand it against the vacuum. Enter Matrochka with vac suit, release athm of the Matrochka to vacuum, haul the dolls back in, set holding catch, repressure it and exit.

Each "doll" purchased at pod's cost.

I'd say an independent system, to be used in an emergency, not in current operation as extendable cargo bay (cute but a different ball game ). Such extendable cargo compartments may be designed to allow easy storage of ship's boats.

Have fun

Selandia

 

[wbyrd]

use the Matrochka principle (Russian Dolls, one encased inside the other)

50 t cutter, 5 dt "Matrochka module", than expand into a 4.9 dT+ a 4.8 dT+ 4.7 dT + ... +... until you have 100 dT total. You do not even need "hard" hydraulic since releasing the holding catch will have the internal pressure expand it against the vacuum. Enter Matrochka with vac suit, release athm of the Matrochka to vacuum, haul the dolls back in, set holding catch, repressure it and exit.

Each "doll" purchased at pod's cost.

I'd say an independent system, to be used in an emergency, not in current operation as extendable cargo bay (cute but a different ball game ). Such extendable cargo compartments may be designed to allow easy storage of ship's boats.

Have fun

Selandia

I can see several ways of describing the method of expanding a hulls volume. and I'd imagine each manufacturer would have their own method..game mechanics wise it would only be a matter of determining cost, tonnage and any quirks or weaknesses a generic expansion module would have.

 

[Selandia]

I can see several ways of describing the method of expanding a hulls volume. and I'd imagine each manufacturer would have their own method..game mechanics wise it would only be a matter of determining cost, tonnage and any quirks or weaknesses a generic expansion module would have.

Quite true. The reason why my Patron NPC would favor the Matrochka is because it require no new rule or game mecanic. Just purchaxe the hull expansion at pod cost, ascribe hull space for the main box, an entry point, a control panel if T5, and voila!

have fun

Selandia