A new ship design paradigm

[dalthor]

Today I've decided to build a small free trader. I'm NOT going to follow the current BBB method of selecting a hull size, installing appropriate power, maneuver, and jump, and then adding the rest of the components.

I'm going to create the basics first, and only then will I install the actual drives. This is just an example, to give you an idea how I think it should actually work.

The method should work for any ship. I'll start with a TL-10 version, and eventually I will "upgrade" to a TL-16 version. That will cause the price to go up, but it'll show how the TL stage effects work.

The basics - I want at least 80 tons of cargo space, room for 6 passengers, and 20 low berths. It'll have a 4-person crew, and simple medical facilities. We'll include a small crew lounge, and a slightly larger passenger lounge. Hmmm...better include luxury life support. Keep it simple with landing skids, default sensors, a basic computer, and be able to wilderness refuel. Finally, I want the ship to have Jump-1 and Maneuver-1. This will require Power-1 as well. We'll make it a streamlined hull, with plate armor. Oh, and probably a steward's station as well.

OK, lets turn that description into a layout of the basics, using the BBB for the components. We'll start with payload, since this is the critical component of the ship. This tends to be the lions share of the tonnage from the description, too!

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes - see page 347 for details
 80      Cargo hold                 -        Subject to change - this is our minimum requirment
 12      6 Standard stateroom       0.6      6 passengers
  1      2 Shared freshers          1.0      Normally 4 passengers per fresher
 15      Common area                -        Small passenger lounge area
 10      20 Low berths             10.0      Are you feeling....lucky?
  8      4 x Crew stateroom         0.4      4 crew in standard staterooms (nice for them!)
  1      2 x Crew freshers          1.0      Again 4 persons per fresher, crew has it good!
 10      Crew common area           -        Small crew lounge
  1      Medical console            0.1      Typical workstation, required on any ship
  2      Medical clinic             1.0      Counts as passenger space ??
-----                              ----
140                                14.1

Looks good so far. Pretty simple, and crew should be happy with separate staterooms! Now we need to look at the physical requirements of the ship, including controls, life support, and other basic hardware.

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
  -      Sensors                    -        Pgs. 323 and 341, Default surface-mounted sensors
  8      Bridge w/4 consoles        0.6      Pg. 345, 2 Control and 2 Operating consoles, all spacious
  6      Engineering consoles       0.3      Pg. 345, 2 spacious Operating consoles
  1      Stewards console           0.1      Pg. 345, went for console instead of workstation
  1      Model 1 computer           1.5      Pg. 345, simple but effective
  1      Life support, standard     1.0      Pg. 344, 10 people, 30 days
  1      add luxury support         1.0      Pg. 345, this is IN ADDITION to regular support
  3      Fuel scoop/intake/purify   1.2      Pg. 339, Scoop 200t, Intake 40t, purify 4t per hour
-----                              ----
 21                                 5.7

I don't like mishaps, so my personal preference is to include the purifier. YMMV. So far, we are at 161 tons and 19.8 Mcr. Not bad, but now comes the fun part.

 

[dalthor]

Next, we have to include our drives and power. Generally, these take a percentage of the hull, based on the type. Unfortunately, jump drives are not a clean percentage. If you take the added 5 tons and put it straight to the component portion, you'll get a clean percentage. Maneuver subtracts one ton, and standard power adds one, which balances. The 3 combined add 5 tons straight up, increasing our tonnage to 166. I'll show the calculations and adjustments. You can use the lookup tables if you'd like, but you need the hull size first!

The rating for each of these is 1. If we made it Jump-2, the powerplant and jump ratings would be 2, since the powerplant rating must be greater than or equal to the drive rating. We need to figure our what percentage of each will apply to the hull. All will be based on Standard installations - TL adjustments will come later.

If you feel like figuring out the percentages I'll use below, feel free to mess with the formulas on page 337. Play with different hull and rating values. If the drive has a modifier (for example jump drive has +5, anti-matter +30) we "hide" it from the percentage calculation by adding it to the basic tonnage we've already created above - it will make your life MUCH easier! I'm skipping all that work here, and just giving the percentage. Deal with it.

Jump fuel is simple - it adds 10% per rating so the Jump fuel portion is .1
Maneuver uses no fuel, it gets it from the power plant.
Power plant fuel is 1% per rating so the plant fuel portion is .01

Jump drive, after losing the 5 ton base, is 2.5%, so the portion is .025. On odd-numbered hulls we are supposed to round up. For now I intend to ignore that rounding issue.

Maneuver drive is also 1% per rating, giving a value of .01

Finally, power plant is 1.5% per rating, giving a value of .015, and again I'll ignore round-up.

So, our total drive percentages at .1 + .01 + .025 + .01 + .015, or 16% of hull size. If we subtract this from 100%, 84% of our hull is everything but drives and power. Lets figure this out: if 166 is 84%, then 166/.84 should give our total tonnage. That comes out to 197.6 tons; probably off a bit due to the rounding issue. Essentially, we have a 200-ton hull!

Our hull will be built as follows:

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
(200)    Hull, streamlined         14.0
  -      Plate armor                -        Armor value = 10
  -      Landing skids              -        Flat surfaces

Now lets figure out drive tonnages, comparing the percentages above with the normal tonnage calculation for a 200-ton hull:

Component         Hull x %          Normal calculation        
Jump fuel         200 x 10% = 20    hull x rating / 10 = 20
Power plant fuel  200 x 1% = 2      hull x rating / 100 = 2
Jump drive        200 x 2.5% = 5    hull x rating / 200 x 5 = 5
Maneuver drive    200 x 1% = 2      hull x rating / 200 x 2 = 2
Power plant       200 x 1.5% = 3    hull x rating / 200 x 3 = 3

For Power plants, minimum size is 4, so we up that by one ton. Notice that the numbers above match for both calculations - that is a GOOD SIGN!

Our final section of the hull will therefore look like this, including the tonnage we "hid" earlier:

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
  4      Powerplant-1 (fusion)      4.0      Pg. 338, 1 Mcr/ton (minimum 4 tons)
  2      Operations fuel            -        1 month
 10      Jump-1 drive              10.0      Pg. 338, 1 Mcr/ton (put back 5 hidden tons from earlier)
 20      Jump fuel                  -        1 jump (about 1 parsec)
  2      Maneuver-1 drive           4.0      Pg. 338, 2 Mcr/ton (minimum 2 tons)
-----                              ----
 38                                18.0

 

[dalthor]

So, after all is said and done, we have this finalized hull, adding any missing tonnage to the cargo bay:

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
(200)    Hull, streamlined         14.0
  -      Plate armor                -        Armor value = 10
  -      Landing skids              -        Flat surfaces
  4      Powerplant-1 (fusion)      4.0      
  2      Operations fuel            -        1 month
 10      Jump-1 drive              10.0      Jump-1
 20      Jump fuel                  -        1 jump (about 1 parsec)
  2      Maneuver-1 drive           4.0      1 G acceleration
  -      Sensors                    -        Pgs. 323 and 341, Default surface-mounted sensors
  8      Bridge w/4 consoles        0.6      Pg. 345, 2 Control and 2 Operating consoles, all spacious
  6      Engineering consoles       0.3      Pg. 345, 2 spacious Operating consoles
  1      Stewards console           0.1      Pg. 345, went for console instead of workstation
  1      Model 1 computer           1.5      Pg. 345, simple but effective
  1      Life support, standard     1.0      Pg. 344, 10 people, 30 days
  1      add luxury support         1.0      Pg. 345, this is IN ADDITION to regular support
  3      Fuel scoop/intake/purify   1.2      Pg. 339, Scoop 200t, Intake 40t, purify 4t per hour
 12      6 Standard stateroom       0.6      6 passengers
  1      2 Shared freshers          1.0      Normally 4 passengers per fresher
 15      Common area                -        Small passenger lounge area
 10      20 Low berths             10.0      Are you feeling....lucky?
  8      4 x Crew stateroom         0.4      4 crew in standard staterooms (nice for them!)
  1      2 x Crew freshers          1.0      Again 4 persons per fresher, crew has it good!
 10      Crew common area           -        Small crew lounge
  1      Medical console            0.1      Typical workstation, required
  2      Medical clinic             1.0      Counts as passenger space ??
 81      Cargo hold                 -        
-----                              ----
200                                51.8

In case you don't recognize this, we just built a Beowulf free trader, adding a fuel purifier. We did it from scratch, without limiting ourselves to a specific starting hull size, and then shoe-horning components into the design.

This method should work for any ship, of any size, that can be built with the ACS system in the BBB. For what it is worth, I intend to ignore the rounding issue IMTU. It just makes things a pain in the elsewhere. From what I've seen so far, calculating crew size and then playing with numbers to get to a needed ergonomic rating will be the juggling act from here on out.

Walk thru it yourself, and see what you think. This method makes WAAAAYYY more sense to me than the design paradigm in the book. I have more testing to do, and need to work out the percentages for other drive/power plant types, but defining the mission, building the components to make that mission work, and THEN calculating hull size and installing the drives and plant works for me.

Thank you, Robject, for helping solve the percentage issue with those danged added tonnages on some drives. Knew it was a simple fix, but the brain just didn't wrap around it.

Comments are welcome.

 

[dalthor]

By the way, before anybody asks, turrets will need to be accounted for once you determine hull size, since the number of turrets is determined by hull size. I didn't include them above because a free trader wouldn't normally have them.

Yah, that may entail some tweaking to your design, or maybe just increasing the hull size. Do what you need to build what you want, ya dig?

Since most of us will have a basic idea of minimum tons, based on your design specs, add one turret for every 100 tons (or portion thereof) you created before the drive calculation phase. That will get you in the ballpark!

Have fun!

 

[pendragonman]

While the totals in post three are correct, the total in post two (last insert) should be 38 not 28.

10+20+4+2+2=38

 

[Spartan159]

When setting aside tonnage for turrets, should console tonnage be set aside as well? While the Beowulf class is not normally armed, I was under the impression the tonnage / hardpoints were set aside as part of the design. Tacking them on to the cargo bay at a later date might not be the best positioning for them after all...

 

[dalthor]

When setting aside tonnage for turrets, should console tonnage be set aside as well? While the Beowulf class is not normally armed, I was under the impression the tonnage / hardpoints were set aside as part of the design. Tacking them on to the cargo bay at a later date might not be the best positioning for them after all...

Actually, the hard points are already built into the hull. They don't use space/mass until the turret itself is installed. At that point, each turret reduces the tonnage available, generally affecting cargo space for accounting purposes. The physical installation won't be in the cargo area, it will be on a hard point.

I do typically include at least one console if I install turrets under remote control. If a gunner will be manning the turret, I skip it.

 

[robject]

Good job!



Dalthor, a big "THANK YOU" for posting the iconic example of the Payload First ship design process!

 

[dalthor]

Here are the basic build allowances for each type of drive and power system. Some definitions are in order:

H is hull size and R is rating, where the rating is the measure of output. For example, a Jump-4 drive has a rating of 4; an Antimmatter-2 plant has a rating of 2. Min is the minimum size in tons BEFORE any tech level stage effects are applied. Base is the base tonnage for a given drive/plant type - it is a constant for that type of installation. Finally, Size is the original calculation less base tonnage, and Mcr is the cost per ton.

    Type            Base     Size                    %      Min     Mcr
(A) Antimatter       30      (H x R) / 200          0.5      30     2.0
(C) Collector         0      (H x R) / 20           5.0       -     0.5
(G) Gravatic          0      ((H x R) / 200) * 9    4.5       9     0.5
(J) Jump              5      ((H x R) / 200) * 5    2.5      10     1.0
(M) Maneuver         -1      ((H x R) / 200) * 2    1.0       2     2.0
(N) NAFAL             0      (H x R) / 100          1.0       2     1.0
(P) Fusion            1      ((H x R) / 200) * 3    1.5       1     1.0
(U) Fission          10      H/20                   5.0       -     1.5

When building a ship, and calculating the initial tonnages, include the Base size in the list of a component as a placeholder for that type of install. For example, if you are going to add a jump drive to a hull, add a line like this to include that required portion:

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
  5      Jump drive base install     ?       5 tons base, plus 2.5% of hull size per rating; minimum 10 tons

Once you finalize the design and size, update that drive line accordingly.

Here are the fuel percentages per rating by powerplant type:

Plant type           Ops     Jump     Hop     Skip     NAFAL      
Antimatter slugs*     10      100      10        1       -
Collector              -        -       -        -       -
Fission                1        -       -        -       -
Fusion                 1       10       1      0.1       1

* Store 1000 antimatter slugs per ton allocated

When calculating the tonnages for each installation, remember to multiply the percentage by the Rating (R) for that item. For example, a Jump-2 drive uses 5% of the hull space -- rating 2 times 2.5% = 5%.

 

[dalthor]

I'm getting ready to do some tech level stage effects on the design we just finished. I've combined a couple of BBB versions from pages 338 and 500, applied the errata, and came up with this version. If I missed anything, I'll correct it later - we're doing a walk-thru, not the real thing yet.

                                 Drive                         Size adjustment
      Model      TL Cost Mod   Eff  Fuel   Q   R   E   B   S  Ship    Gun   Thing
Exp Experimental -3  x10  -3    50%  2.0   Q  -2  -3  +3  -3   x3     x2     x3
Pro Prototype    -2  x5   -2    80%  1.2   Q  -2  -2  +2  -2   x2     x1.9   x2
Ear Early        -1  x2   -1    90%  1.1   Q      -1  +1  -1   x1     x1.7   x1.5
Std Standard      0  x1    0   100%  1.0   Q                                     
Bas Basic         0  /2    0    90%  1.1   Q      -1  +1       x1     x1.3   x1.2
Alt Alternate     0  x1    0   100%  1.0   Q   F   F   F   F   x1     x1.1   x1
Gen Generic      +1  /2    0    90%  1.1   5   0   0   0   0   x1     x1     x1.5
Imp Improved     +1  x1   +1   110%  0.9   Q  +1  +1  -1  +1   x1     x1     x1.5
Mod Modified     +2  /2   +2   110%  0.9   Q  +2  +2  -2  +2   /2     x0.9   x0.9
Adv Advanced     +3  x2   +3   120%  0.8   Q  +3  +3  -3  +3   /3     x0.8   x0.8
Ult Ultimate     +4  x3   +4   130%  0.7   Q  +4  +4  -4  +4   /4     x0.7   x0.5

As I do the next segment, I'll be using this table for my modifications.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Seconded!

Way to go, dude!

As Rob said thanks for posting it. Now, here I go a step further than My Lord Patron and ask if it would be possible to have this lovely method put together in a document for use offline? Please.

I particularly like the "cheat" of offloading the drives/pp +tons on to the component side. Elegant that, very cool.

I am looking at having a go at an ACS/BCS hybrid in the form of the ISGS* Elephant Island, a search, rescue and salvage ship. And with that idea I find my self for the first time using a component first design process since the primary mission requirement is a bay large enough to accommodate the largest ACS ship with room to work on it. I figure that right there puts the bay at 3000 tons. It starts there, but I haven't had a chance to mess around with it more than that because I am lazy and was using Rob's fine T5 Shipyard App (with some customization on my end) to jam out ships. Sadly, I haven't created a ship by hand since the early HMS Herald, but I think your process might speed things up since with my computer in the shop I will have to work by hand.

* Imperial Space Guard Ship

 

[dalthor]

Now it is time for some updates. Don't get me wrong, the "B" is a good design for its day. Therein lies the rub. The "B" is built at TL-10, quite a bit behind the power curve. Let's add a little bang for the bucks, and see how to use tech level increases to our advantage. For now, money is no object...we just want to see what we can do.

Now, at TL-15, we can do some serious updates. For our purposes, assume we can upgrade without any problems due to TL difference. After all, this is a how-to, not a can-do.

We'll start twith the jump drive. Here is the current drive, based on TL-10 technology:

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
------   -----------------------   ----      -----
 10      Jump-1 drive              10.0      Jump-1
 20      Jump fuel                  -        1 jump (about 1 parsec)

Let's bump that up to TL-15, making it an Ultimate Jump-1 drive. Looking at the SHIP column in our Tech Level Stage Effects (TLSE) table above, an ultimate drive will be one-fourth of the original tonnage, and per the Efficiency and Fuel columns be 130% more efficient and use only 70% of the fuel! Of course, the cost would triple...

Now the jump drive would look like this:

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
------   -----------------------   ----      -----
 2.5     Jump-1 drive              30.0      Jump-1
 14      Jump fuel                  -        1 jump (about 1 parsec)

WOW! We just gained 13.5 tons for cargo or other expansion! Not only that, but since the drive is 130% efficient, instead of the original 200 tons, this drive can handle 260 tons! We could add an external 50-ton pod, and still jump with no difficulty! ( Some of you may disagree with me on that, but why would it NOT work that way?? )

Even at triple the cost, I think this upgrade would pay for itself with that extended cargo capacity over the expected life of the ship. QREB bonuses and reduced fueling costs would also mitigate that cost factor.

We could apply the same type of thing to the power plant and maneuver drive. The space gained wouldn't be as great, but the plant upgrade would add nearly 10 days to the operating time, and we can maneuver at 1.3 Gs.

This principle would work on other items as well. For the "B", we don't really have a lot of upgrades that would matter, but TLSE applies to weapons, defenses, sensors, and some other systems.

Heck, build the hull at TL-15, and make it charged plate. Paint it to look rusty, beat up, decrepit, and poorly maintained. Add two pop-up turrets at TL-15, say ultimate Hybrids doing 130% damage.

A Vargr corsair sees an opportunity, and pops over to say hello. I can't see a raider even powering up weps in a case like this - there is no reason to fear.

Well, lets just say that the brown piles in the corridors would be well worth it. Not that I'd ever condone something that nasty. < hastily wipes feral grin off face >

In any case, the larger the ship, the bigger the savings, and the sooner it would pay off. TLSE are an easy and logical way to upgrade ships without compromising anything. Try it - you'll like it!

 

[dalthor]

Magnus,

T5 ship design has bothered me since I first tried it. This is my attempt to make it better. With this method, I don't bother rounding up or ignoring fractions. It "feels" better to me, and is more compact. I don't need lookup tables, but a calculator is handy since I'm building by hand. lol

I put a lot of thought into it, and Rob gave me the final key with the "move constant tonnage" concept. It made varying percentages a thing of the past!

I have an ugly .pdf file that is essentially a dupe of this thread. I am still error checking. I put this together in odd moments over the last couple of days, starting Saturday morning, and it could probably use some editing as well.

I can e-mail you what I have, but prefer not to post it until we've verified that I have a clue. I'm mainly concerned with the TLSE table, and the percentages I included for the calculations. Of course, errata fixes will help, too.

Appreciate the feedback and the compliments from both Rob and yourself.

 

[pendragonman]

Count Dagu.

Would it be possible for you to do a payload first design of a Type T? I am wanting to see if this design process works for all payload requirements and not just freighters.

Yours in Flight,
Count Uakye et Jana.

 

[dalthor]

Count Uakye et Jana,

I'm using the T5 design system, just not in the order (or the way!) Marc designed it. If the ship can be converted to T5, the info in this thread will build it. Heck, Robject has already converted a lot of designs - I could rebuild every one of them here, using the basic build he has already done, with only minor differences in the drive and power plant numbers. Actually, my numbers probably tend to be lower for odd-tonned hulls above 100 tons.

The difference?

This builder uses percentages instead of the hard numbers Marc calculated, which will cause minor variances with drive tons. Marc rounded up; I don't. Marc started with hull, drive, power. I finish with them. I don't "adjust" results because of odd-numbered ratings in 100-ton hulls - I use the numbers I calculate in all situations.

That being said, I'm willing to do the Type-T, with some stipulations - simple stuff, not to worry!

I am not too familiar with the Type-T. Googled it and got basic 400-t description from Freelance Traveller; I found 500-ton versions out there as well. There are a LOT of variations out there.

We can use any one as baseline, and engineer it using what we think are the appropriate T5 items. Should be able to get pretty close. The hard part is converting those basic items to the T5 equivalent - that is the biggest factor in an accurate build.

Rob, from your conversion experience, would you agree with that assessment??

Rather than adhering to those designs, we could start as generic as possible, and truly work a design. I'm sure that using an existing version, we can duplicate the build. I want to go from nothing to our own version.

Give me a paragraph, similar to what I used in my example, to give me the basic concept - for example ship's boats, cargo space, bays, and other basic functions.

Give me jump, maneuver, and power ratings.

I'll work up a design from there, using standard T5 components. You can review, and add or remove components as needed.

Once we build mine, we'll have hull size. We can then build using the BBB method, and we'd get almost the exact same numbers. (Odd-numbered hulls will vary due to rounding, as mentioned before.)

 

[dalthor]

Count Uakye et Jana,

Here is the basic Patrol Cruiser (Type-T) description, from my copy of CT book 2, Starships, on page 20

J-3 and M-4, thus P-4. Model/3 computer, 12 staterooms, 4 low berths. GCarrier (tonnage unknown, possibly 8-10 tons) and ships boat (30 tons); 50-ton cargo bay. Streamlined.

18 crew: Pilot, nav, 3 x eng, medic, 4 gunners, 8 troops. Double occupancy for the gunners and troops.

Pretty basic, and already gives hints about what can be expected, especially since the original description gives hull size, turrets, and so on.

Still, if you'd like, we can build from here - I think I can get pretty close just from this.

 

[pendragonman]

Count Dagu,

Yes, that is the Type T of which I speak. I am wanting to make sure your method is within a small enough epsilon to the original design.

So, go ahead and set loose your engineers. Let's see what they draft up.

 

[robject]

Here is the basic Patrol Cruiser (Type-T) description, from my copy of CT book 2, Starships, on page 20
[...] GCarrier (tonnage unknown, possibly 8-10 tons) [...]

The GCarrier is 8 tons.

 

[robject]

We can use any one as baseline, and engineer it using what we think are the appropriate T5 items. Should be able to get pretty close. The hard part is converting those basic items to the T5 equivalent - that is the biggest factor in an accurate build.

Rob, from your conversion experience, would you agree with that assessment??

That's how I did it. I usually went to what I figured was the most iconic CT design and made the numbers as close as possible to the original. Typically the difference was in the fuel tankage from smaller Book 2 designs.

 

[dalthor]

OK, using the basic spec listed, lets do a TL-12 Patrol Cruiser - my interpretation.

J-3 and M-4, thus P-4. Model/3 computer, 12 staterooms, 4 low berths. GCarrier (tonnage unknown, possibly 8-10 tons) and ships boat (30 tons); 50-ton cargo bay. Streamlined.

18 crew: Pilot, nav, 3 x eng, medic, 4 gunners, 8 troops. Double occupancy for the gunners and troops.

Volume   Component                  Mcr      Notes
  50     Cargo bay                  -       
  12     6 x single stateroom       0.6      Pilot, Nav, 3 Eng, Medic
  12     6 x double stateroom       0.6      4 gunners, 8 troops
   1     2 x shared fresher         1.0      Officers
   1     3 x shared fresher         1.5      Enlised
   0.5   Medical console            0.5      Required
   2     Medical clinic             1.0
   2     4 x low berths             0.4
  30     Crew common area           -        Includes wardroom

   3     Model/3 ships computer    10.5
   4     Basic bridge               0.8      4 typical control consoles

   2     Life support               4.0      20 crew, 30 days
  60     Hangar                     -        10t Gcarrier, 30t ships boat

   -     Sensors                    -        Standard surface-mounted arrary
   2     Fuel scoop                 0.2      400 tons/hr
   2     Fuel intake                0.2      80 tons/hr
   2     Fuel bin                   0.2      40 tons/hr
   4     Fuel purifier              4.0      16 tons/hr purified
------                            -----
 189.5                             25.5

Jump drive tonnage is 2.5% * rating, or 7.5%
Maneuver tonnage is 1.0% * rating, or 4%
Power tonnage is 1.5% * rating, or 6%
Jump fuel is 10% * rating, or 30%
Ops fuel is 1% * rating, or 4%.

The drives, fuel, and power systems comprise 51.5% of the hull. This works out to a 400-ton hull.
                                 
(400)    Hull, plate armor                   AV 12
  -      Skids                      -        Flat landing only
  24     Power plant               24.0      Power-4
  16      - plant fuel              -        30 days
  16     Maneuver drive            32.0      M-4
  30     Jump drive                30.0      J-3
 120      - jump fuel                        Up to jump-3
------                            -----
 206                               86.0

The final tonnage is 395.5. The total cost 111.5 Mcr, excluding the cost of the G-carrier and Ships boat. Adding 4 turrets at about 1 ton each will bring tonnage to 399.5 tons.

My numbers and included components may be a bit off above, I gave best guess for sizes on crew area, but I'm in the basic original ballpark. I expect I'm off on hangar bay due to the GCarrier - I saw ranges from 1.5 tons to 30 tons for it.

How close am I to what you'd expect?