A question about Firefly/Serenity & Traveller

[BlackBat242]

I missed Firefly when it first came out on TV. I just don't watch much TV and hadn't heard of the series until I saw the ads for the Serenity movie - and I missed that, too. Yeah...I need to get out more.

I missed it sooo bad that the first I heard of it was when I joined CotI and read you-all raving about it.

Still didn't see any episode (or part of one) until I bought a DVD of Serenity earlier this year.

Watched it, liked it... and recently bought the "Complete Firefly" boxed DVD set.



Now I've just gotta find the time to start watching them.

 

[far-trader]

...And it is seen to fire CPR slugs ("She needs oxygen to fire.", Jayne in "Our Mrs. Reynolds").

AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!



:nonono:

CPR weapons, well modern ones anyway, by which I mean pretty much anything post black powder and match, have the oxidizer in the cartridge and will fire in vacuum, underwater, and most any condition you care to imagine. How well, if at all, the bullet goes down the barrel is another matter :devil: (though in a vacuum it should go down the barrel very very well thank you very much).

This is the one episode that had me shouting at the TV when it aired. Screaming aloud at the ignorance of the writers.

Don't worry too much though sabredog I came up with some "rationalizations" in a thread touching on this way back. Can't recall exactly what they were now though. But it wasn't so the rifle would actually fire. Temperature might have been one of them, near absolute zero may make combustion iffy.

 

[cajon5]

AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!



:nonono:

CPR weapons, well modern ones anyway, by which I mean pretty much anything post black powder and match, have the oxidizer in the cartridge and will fire in vacuum, underwater, and most any condition you care to imagine. How well, if at all, the bullet goes down the barrel is another matter :devil: (though in a vacuum it should go down the barrel very very well thank you very much).

This is the one episode that had me shouting at the TV when it aired. Screaming aloud at the ignorance of the writers.

YES! Ditto! Me too! Chemistry is not my forte, but I was pretty certain that gunpowder contains an oxidizer. And how could Jayne aim with the gun in a suit? How could he get his finger into the trigger guard? The only possible reason I could think of for a weapon to need air around it would be that the gun oil might evaporate in a vacuum. However, since space travel and combat in space are commonplace in the Firefly-verse, I would think non-evaporating lubricants, or "super teflon" coated moving parts would be the standard of firearm design. Oh, well, even the best tale must have a few nits...

 

[Sturn]

I recall that Josh Whedon later apologized for this goof.

 

[sabredog]

This is the one episode that had me shouting at the TV when it aired. Screaming aloud at the ignorance of the writers.

Don't worry too much though sabredog I came up with some "rationalizations" in a thread touching on this way back. Can't recall exactly what they were now though. But it wasn't so the rifle would actually fire. Temperature might have been one of them, near absolute zero may make combustion iffy.

I rolled my eyes at the whole vacc suit scene (which would have invalidated the whole oxygen-required thing even if that was true after the first shot anyway) but I just let it go as the usual goofiness in Hollywood when it comes to guns. It went in the same pile as Inara's "Bow-Gun" thing from "Serenity" (yeah...that's a useful thing to have when attacked by a thousand screaming Reivers!), and the endless shots available to any Hollywood gun.

 

[aramis]

Didn't Traveller:2300 come out mid 1980's?

Regards

PF

Late 1986. Widespread distribution in '87.

But, for clarity...

• 2300: 2 drives for ships, no gravitics, most landing capable spacecraft are aerodyne shuttles, starships almost never landing capable due to lack of gravitics and the formfactor thus needed.

 

[PathfinderAP]

I recall that Josh Whedon later apologized for this goof.

Well he had other people to do all the tech/science for the show
he doesn't know how much of the shows tech works at all, he even admits to being crap at such things (hence the need for the other people)

Joss is a writer, and has no grasp of sci/fi tech at all


The bullets needing oxygen maybe explained by the fact they are not your normal bullets, but a type of "ramjet" round (fuel in the hollow center, that ignites with air friction and propels the bullet at speed like a jet, giving it more energy, range and impact) that could also explain the sound the guns make,

 

[Andrew Boulton]

...or you could just say Jayne was wrong!

 

[far-trader]

After a few episodes I actually kicked around the idea that maybe Jayne wasn't really "all that" (mercenary, expert marksman, bad ass, etc. ) but just a scared, all alone, misfit, looking for acceptance and hiding behind all that bravado. And yes the line "she needs oxygen to fire" fit that character too*

* and Mal (who would know better) was just humoring him, being fully aware of Jayne's real nature

(I just don't credit most of TV or Hollywood with that much layering)

 

[PathfinderAP]

...or you could just say Jayne was wrong!

No, he was hired on ship because he knew how to fight, and one end of a gun from the other,

He was an experienced mercenary, so he knows guns,

 

[sabredog]

No, and it also wouldn't make sense from Mal's point of view, either: they only had one shot at stopping the net from killing them all and it made it all the harder to make the shot with "Vera" inside that stupid helmet. Jayne's good, but Mal wouldn't want to take any chances.

Hollywood always makes mistakes like that -next time you watch a movie with plenty of gunfire count the shots, see how often they have to keep racking their semi-autos or shotguns even after they already did 2 seconds ago...how often the slide is locked back on the empty 2-shot pistol but loaded in the next angle...the idiot actors throw their rounds downrange..oh, the agony!

They haven't done guns right since Peckinpah.

 

[PathfinderAP]

After a few episodes I actually kicked around the idea that maybe Jayne wasn't really "all that" (mercenary, expert marksman, bad ass, etc. ) but just a scared, all alone, misfit, looking for acceptance and hiding behind all that bravado. And yes the line "she needs oxygen to fire" fit that character too*

* and Mal (who would know better) was just humoring him, being fully aware of Jayne's real nature

What?!? lol, Firefly must look really weird to you,

Do you really think that Mal would let Jayne go to all the trouble of using a vacc suit for the gun just to humor him?, do you really think that?

(I just don't credit most of TV or Hollywood with that much layering)

Well, yes they do, evidently more than you realize,
Star Trek being the most obvious case, they even have people who work for NASA giving them tech advice,

If you don't "don't credit most of TV or Hollywood with that much layering" why bother with anything, why make new sounds for the guns? why not just use the old firearm sounds, (got to be cheaper)

 

[PathfinderAP]

Hollywood always makes mistakes like that -next time you watch a movie with plenty of gunfire count the shots, see how often they have to keep racking their semi-autos or shotguns even after they already did 2 seconds ago...

Yeah that is a pet peeve of mine

 

[sabredog]

If you don't "don't credit most of TV or Hollywood with that much layering" why bother with anything, why make new sounds for the guns? why not just use the old firearm sounds, (got to be cheaper)

They do use both new and old gun sounds in Firefly...they bounce back and forth. In the first couple of episodes they sound like regular guns, but starting with the opening scene in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" Mal and Zoe's guns make that weird buzzing sound instead of a bang. Then they go back to the regular bang sound for a while, then back again.

Then in Serenity they change again (and the guns look a little different - except for Mal's, but that's the only time you also see him actually load it, too).

 

[far-trader]

Agreed, the whole gun in space suit idea made no sense as presented. Adding layers of needless complexity without a proper reason for requiring it. I could have lived with some explanation if they'd thought it through. This wasn't so much a lack of knowledge imo (though that was almost certainly part of it) as a rush to write a "cool" idea scene. "Oh! I know! Let's have Jayne shoot the gun through the helmet of a space suit!! That'd be awesome!!! But why? Because it needs oxygen to fire? Who cares, it's cool!"

They haven't done guns right since Peckinpah.

True, including getting hit by a shot. The old cowboys just fell down where they got hit. None of this blown off their feet and thrown across the room from every little bullet. But it's Hollywood, home of spontaneously exploding cars too.

In the same vein I had to groan out loud when Mythbusters thought they had to "test" the "myth" of curving your bullet in flight by swinging your gun really fast (from that silly movie I can't recall the name of and never bothered to see). I mean come on, is the state of education so poor now that simple physics is beyond the ken of the average person? Sad.

 

[PathfinderAP]

They do use both new and old gun sounds in Firefly...they bounce back and forth. In the first couple of episodes they sound like regular guns, but starting with the opening scene in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" Mal and Zoe's guns make that weird buzzing sound instead of a bang. Then they go back to the regular bang sound for a while, then back again.

Then in Serenity they change again (and the guns look a little different - except for Mal's, but that's the only time you also see him actually load it, too).

No, in the pilot Ep, in Battle of Serenity Valley, all the guns made a new sound,

 

[sabredog]

"Wanted"! Oh Lord, that's a wretched film.

Better to watch some Jon Woo flying-through-the-air-wilst-firing-two-guns movie than something like that. Even though now every player on Earth wants to use two handguns in combat when a perfectly good SMG will have a better effect. Let alone the humble shotgun.

See, these bad movies are ruining even a good RPG by teaching players bad habits! Maybe I'll take my current group to the range and show them the folly of their ways.

 

[sabredog]

No, in the pilot Ep, in Battle of Serenity Valley, all the guns made a new sound,

Huh, well if that's so it only proves my point all the more, and gives me a reason to go watch it agin for the 50th+ time!

They should hire someone like me to maintain continuity and realism. Ah, the life of ease with plenty of exotic weaponry to play with! Oh wait, I already sort of have that. Just without the ease.

 

[PathfinderAP]

Agreed, the whole gun in space suit idea made no sense as presented. Adding layers of needless complexity without a proper reason for requiring it. I could have lived with some explanation if they'd thought it through. This wasn't so much a lack of knowledge imo (though that was almost certainly part of it) as a rush to write a "cool" idea scene. "Oh! I know! Let's have Jayne shoot the gun through the helmet of a space suit!! That'd be awesome!!! But why? Because it needs oxygen to fire? Who cares, it's cool!"

Assumption, assumption, assumption,
And assumption is cheap

Why would "Jayne shoot the gun through the helmet of a space suit"
be awesome!!! ?

Why go to the trouble?

You know its the crappy cheap shows and the junk that goes straight to dvd that has no deeper thought given it, its throw away, and its treated as such,

Firefly/Serenity is not cheap or throw away,


Does this look like no thought was given?

 

[Malinor]

True, including getting hit by a shot. The old cowboys just fell down where they got hit. None of this blown off their feet and thrown across the room from every little bullet. But it's Hollywood, home of spontaneously exploding cars too.

Yeah, it puts me in mind of Christopher Lee's anecdote in his autobiography Tall, Dark & Gruesome. Early in his career he got a part in a movie which required him to be shot dead. Having just come out of active service in World War 2 he knew what taking a round looked like, so come the scene he took the hit and just collapsed. The director called cut, chewed him out and told him to put more pizazz into the move. When Lee told him it wasn't realistic the guy said "I don't care about realism - just do it my way!"

Back on theme... I've seen Serenity but not Firefly - yet. My first take on Serenity was that Whedon had to have played Traveller. It was so like my concept of the game. The posts here have been very illuminating.