A question (or two) on future products

[robject]

Not that my opinion is necessarily worth much, but:

Absolutely push design up into the T20 Ref's Manual. Leverage what's already out there, please -- no need to create work, there's always too much to do.

One vehicle book seems enough. I suspect civilian vehicles are just not sexy enough to warrant their own book. Perhaps as little as a note specifying what's omitted in civilian variants.

Similarly with the ships book. The division doesn't seem worthwhile? If you must, a "small ships" catalogue versus a "big ships" catalogue.

Atlases, aye.

Gear, oh aye.

Location books, an awesome resource. Find a graphics guy to do floorplans?

NPC books, i.e. "Patron and Nemesis List", another awesome resource.

Alien Sourcebooks, yes of course.

OK. This is my thinking so far

1-2 vehicle books...

4 Atlas style books...

1 Gear Book

2 Ship Books

1-2 Location books

3 Alien Sourcebooks

Design manual- may be incorporated into the T20 Referee's Manual.

1-3 Intro adventures - Short and to the point.

Like to Do, but Doubtful
Ground Military Sourcebook - campaigns and stuff for gearheads
Space Military Sourcebook - campaigns and stuff for gearheads
Troubleshooter Sourcebook
Exploration and Colonization Sourcebook
Merchant Sourcebook

 

[Colin]

For a hypothetical vehicle book, we would have something like this:

Civilian modular car and modules
High-performance sports car
Motorcycle
Monowheel
Cargo Truck
Range Truck and accessories (including military range truck)
Rough Terrain Motorhome
Quad-Style ATV
Off-road motorcycle
Hoverbike
Jetski
Hover jeep
Motorboat
Cigarette Boat
Yacht
Multi-mode hover yacht
Submarine yacht
Research sub
S&R hovercraft
Personal VTOL
Light Tilt-rotor
Utility Tilt-rotor
Tilt-rotor gunship
Helicopter gunship
Utility helicopter
X-Wing scout
X-wing gunship
Ground support fighter
Tank-hunter UAV
Tank-hunter UGV
Aerospace fighter
Obsolete Hover APC
Modern APC
Light Tank
Light hover tank
Armored Car
Patrol Boat
Patrol Sub
Fighter Sub
Agro-walker
2 combat walkers (new)
Construction walker
Utility Sub
Cyclo-crane dirigible
"Flying Saucer" dirigible

 

[Colin]

For a gear book, this is the basic outline

Weapons
More civilian and paramilitary designs
Holdout pistol
Target pistol
Heavy pistol
"Military-look" semi-auto rifle
Hunting shotgun
Hunting rifle
Survival gun - over/under rifle/shotgun

Military and Police Weapons
SK-19A4
2 older binary assault rifles
Gauss SMG
Heavy Laser Rifle
Heavy Sonic Stunner

Heavy Weapons
Laser "Machinegun"
Plasma Rifle
Binary Machinegun

Armor
EOD
Underwater battlesuit (semi-powered for swimming)
Stealth

Gear
Survival Gear
Exploratory Gear
Security
Space
Communications
Computers and personal electronics

Cybernetics and Biotech

Robots
Gundog
Surveillance
Hunter-Killer
EOD
SAR

Pod-Tech

Running the Link - (maybe)

 

[epicenter00]

My 2lv on a vehicle list

That vehicle list is pretty good, Colin - I like it.

Aramis - yes, you're right that non-military vehicles simply aren't "sexy" enough for the grognard in us, but I find that RPG playing groups tend to fall into several pretty predictable themes and groups in 2300 (really in all RPGs) due to pressures on the players and the kinds of things that GMs enjoy running. Tailoring the vehicles to what these groups are likely to encounter never really goes too far wrong. From my experience running 2300, groups tend to be:

* Para-military mercenaries breaking the law or enforcing the law. The question of the law being just or not is irrelevant here.

* Explorers/tomb-raiders. Includes "ruin-raiders" whom are people poking around wreckage of the Kafer war for instance, or people exploring some poorly-mapped or unmapped world.

* Espionage agents. This is actually an extension of para-military mercenaries, with an emphasis on subterfuge over violence.

Even in "military" games (where everyone is a member of the same unit, ad hoc or not), players almost inevitably are groundside "operators" who are in the grit and grime - their boots are almost always dirty. That is to say, players tend not to spend the entire game riding around in hover/grav tanks, fly fighter planes, and so on. Even military campaigns usually have players as Special Forces/Ranger types or infantry grunts. Player vehicles tend to be decidedly on the lower power end and as such, I found the Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide far more useful than the 2300 Vehicle Guide, though I found neither as comprehensive as I'd liked (I think this is unavoidable).

To add to your list, Colin, in a vehicle guide, I'd like to see:

Police / Law-Enforcement Vehicles. Let's face it, most of the time players spend in civilized areas is spent breaking the law. The police are the responders to this sort of stuff when things go bad (and they always do). It's always nice when the GM doesn't have to make his or her own.

Metro Police Groundcar
Metro Police Aerodyne/Spinner - What's the future without a Blade-Runner type "spinner" flying car?
Metro Police "Tactical" transport (this could be notes on an obsolete military vehicle).
Metro Police Riot Control Vehicle
Metro Police Surveillance Van
Rural/Frontier Police ATV "Jeep" or "Humvee"
Rural/Frontier Police Hover

Ideally, I'd like to see a list of what kind of equipment each of these vehicles carries (Is there a shotgun or an assault rifle in the trunk? How well armored is it? What kind of communications does it have?). These could be folded into the more broad vehicle types on your list, but I think they should at least have a statline/entry/picture.

Militia/Para-Military Vehicles. Players tend to run into these types a lot as well.

Armored Cars - I don't mean like a Brinks Armored car, but more like a LAV-25 - a 6 or 8 wheeled vehicle with armor on it. It's not a tank but it'll be a tough encounter for players who will tend to see it as a "do not go" sign - it's fast, lightweight, and cheap to repair. It might be former military or it might be built from the ground up as a paramilitary vehicle for sales to militias and corporate security. The manufacturer might offer various turrets/fits for it, including machine gun turret (cheapest option), low pressure 90mm gun, rapid-fire autocannon + machinegun + anti-tank missiles, rapid-fire anti-aircraft railguns + acquisition sensors (these would be more popular with users over superior AA missiles because the vehicle could be used for infantry suppression as well). An interesting "model" of armored car fluff might be that it was inspired by something the Kafers used, the manufacturer finding the design rugged, cheap to manufacture, easy to maintain and run and just 'humanized' the fittings and controls.

Technicals - Yeah, your standard civilian truck with a machinegun on the back of it and the kind of thing you'd not only see the forces of "warlords" but also as rural patrol vehicles on places with Kafers. It's not exactly high-tech and could easily be folded in with a civilian truck, but again, I think GMs would appreciate it there was ready-made entry for it. Perhaps a "finished" Technical might be in order as well - a civilian truck with a machinegun and a grenade launcher on a pintle mount, with sheets of ballistic plastic fitted onto it.

Vehicles Unique To The Future and Other Requests.

Henderson Tracked ATV - I used this thing tons and always hated how it was the only entry of its kind in the 2300 vehicle guide. This was pretty much a category I thought needed expansion - the kind of "expedition" vehicle you'd see on newly mapped planets or in the unmapped frontiers of newly settled places, rolling around the untracked wilderness. In fact, as it wasn't an obsolete military vehicle but purpose-built really increased the allure to my players and we actually tried an exploration campaign because of it. Something like it would be much appreciated.

Hoverdrone Surveillance Vehicles - Used by the military, police agencies, and the media. It'd basically be a van-type vehicle for the police, able to handle multiple hoverdrones, used to keep an eye over high crime areas or for public events. Perhaps a sketch of a cheaper "rig" used by the paparazzi to watch stars. A military style one would be interesting as well - it launches surveillance drones to map enemy force concentrations and perhaps carries a number of cruise missiles so it can not only monitor enemy movements but also act on the information. Obviously, the signals used to guide the drones are detectable, so it hasn't replace human (player character) recon teams, but is a useful vehicle in certain situations.

Sung Hovercar - An attempt by Sung organizations to break into human vehicle markets. In the past, Sung vehicles were considered too light and too fragile, with bad speed and handling characteristics. However, perhaps in the last ten years, Sung manufacturers have been making high-end luxury hovercars with engraved wooden running boards and similar expensive fittings. Such vehicles have become so popular within certain circles of the elite they're now referred to as "Air Chariots." While human manufacturers have gotten into the lucrative market as well, the truly wealthy still prefer to import theirs directly from the Sung homeworld.

Pentapod Vehicles - Two words: Pentapod Walker. The mind reels with the possibilities of a pentapod designed walker or perhaps a walker designed by a human-pentapod joint venture.

 

[G. Fieendish]

Re: last post
With regard to Paramilitary Vehicles, The LAV-25's current incarnation (the Pirhana IV/V a/k/a Stryker) cannot fit into the C-130 Hercules's cargo bay, as it's too wide....

 

[robject]

For a hypothetical vehicle book, we would have something like this:

I'm severely tempted to break this down into base units with customization packages -- although that tends to water down the interestingness of things. And anything that adds work for the referee is a pain.

But, a small number of custom, plug-and-play add-ons might be nice.

Accessories
   - tow cable
   - various comms (radio, satellite, low-power laser, other?)
   - atmospherics?  sealed?
   - armored

Packages
   
   Hover packages
   + obsolete
   + modern

   S&R package

   Ranged package
   - improved comm

   Combat packages
   + small arms w/'locker' (in trunk etc)
   + light support weapon (w/tripod or etc)
   + variety of support weapons to choose from!

   Patrol package (S&R + Ranged + a Combat package)
   
   Offroad/Rough Terrain package
   + 4wd
   + improved suspension
   + tracked

   High-performance package
   Research package
   Luxury package
   Cargo package

Thus you can have text and images for the vehicles you've thought up, plus let the referee create variants simply.

Groundcraft

   1. Car
   2. Motorcycle   
   3. Monowheel   
   4. Truck (2-axle and 3-axle utility)
   5. Motorhome
   6. Quad-Style ATV
   7. APC (3-axle)
   8. Light Tank
   9. Jeep  
   10. Walker
   + agro
   + construction
   + combat packages

Watercraft

   1. Jetski
   2. Motorboat
   + Cigarette Boat (high-performance package)
   + Yacht (luxury package)
   + Patrol Boat (patrol package)
   + Research Boat (research package)


Submarines

   1. Fighter Sub
   2. Custom Submarine
   + Utility Sub (various handy accessories)
   + Submarine yacht (luxury package)
   + Patrol Sub (patrol package)
   + Research sub (research package)

If each of the fourteen craft above could be customized with five of the listed accessories, then you've got seventy-plus additional vehicles "for free".

I could be going overboard with all this, in which case I apologize.

 

[yourstruly2095]

All this looks great but while I love the 2320AD setting isn't this all vaporware? So far QLI haven't even released the final version of the rulebook or a print version of the current version, and there are no signs that they are going to get that done in the near future. So when are all these books you're planning here expected to be released, and how?

 

[robject]

All this looks great but while I love the 2320AD setting isn't this all vaporware? So far QLI haven't even released the final version of the rulebook or a print version of the current version, and there are no signs that they are going to get that done in the near future. So when are all these books you're planning here expected to be released, and how?

Well, his plan is that other contributors step up and write, and I suspect the most likely path to publishing is via PDF.

Do we have 2300-era art/artists for these books?

 

[Peter Schutze]

Can I suggest deciding on the "ground rules" before making products ?

These "ground rules" would form core parts of other products for example colonial development rules would be part of an "explorers guide" but they are vitally important for working on the settlement pattern info for the colonial atlas(es) and a sketchy technical architecture is neccessary before rating vehicles (and weapons) of any type

One of the things that really bugged me about 2300AD is that the colonies in the various products usually can't be duplicated using the skimpy information in the referee's guide. Some definition would also be useful eg does giving a colony 'fusion power plant" mean there is one aka Elysia on Joi or that any (major) urban area can be assumed to have its own .... thus probably almost eliminating the need for power grids

 

[Colin]

Vehicles and ships have their own design rules, based on the Traveller D20 rules. As for colony design, there are rules for that as well. All of these design sequences were cut for reason of space.

 

[yourstruly2095]

Well, his plan is that other contributors step up and write, and I suspect the most likely path to publishing is via PDF.

Well this is just my opinion but I think it would be more useful to put all efforts into actually producing the final version of the 2320AD book first. It strikes me as being very optimistic to plan a whole line of books when you've got no print products and no advertising, and all that's available is a "version 1" PDF of the corebook that's lacking most of the really cool artwork and so on. I know there have been problems but shouldn't more effort have been made to find alternative art and so on by now? What efforts have QLI made to get the line moving again?

Also given how long the PDF of the corebook has been available for and the lack of further support for the line since then, I really cannot see these other books ever being produced. I'm sorry to be so negative but I can't help but think this is all wishful thinking. It would be great if they could come out as PDFs but what are the chances of that actually happening?

 

[Colin]

All this looks great but while I love the 2320AD setting isn't this all vaporware? So far QLI haven't even released the final version of the rulebook or a print version of the current version, and there are no signs that they are going to get that done in the near future. So when are all these books you're planning here expected to be released, and how?

There have been setbacks, that is true. Ted Lindsey was unable to complete the layout due to personal and professional pressure, and Hunter now has everything Ted was able to accomplish. He is reviewing everything, and is planning on moving forward with it shortly.

As for the new material, much of the tech stuff won't take too long. A great deal already exists in outlines and notes, and vehicle and ship design are quite straightforward. I will be looking for submissions, but mostly for the Atlas material. I still plan to oversee it all, to make sure everything is consistent, and I will have significant input.

First thing, though, is to get the final version out. I'm just trying to plan follow-up products so that they can get into the pipe relatively quickly after the final core book is released.

 

[Border Reiver]

And what is the point of sitting on your ass waiting to see if the product is successful or not? (though from what I can gather it seems to have generated reasonable interest, POD from LULU is fine but I'd rather see it in my FLGS)

Plans for follow ups should be well advanced to capitalise on the market interest for the original book. If the 2320 book does not work out then the follow ups can be quietly dropped (or found another outlet, PDFs, magazine articles etc) and on to the next project.

 

[Colin]

And what is the point of sitting on your ass waiting to see if the product is successful or not? (though from what I can gather it seems to have generated reasonable interest, POD from LULU is fine but I'd rather see it in my FLGS)

Plans for follow ups should be well advanced to capitalise on the market interest for the original book. If the 2320 book does not work out then the follow ups can be quietly dropped (or found another outlet, PDFs, magazine articles etc) and on to the next project.

'Cuz my ass is a comfortable place to be?

Plans are fairly well-advanced. I can turn out a vehicle book in about 2 weeks, and a ship book in comparable time. The real bottleneck is art, and the hold-up on art is financing. And financing is not my department. The tech book is fully outlined, and partially written.

I wanted to revisit customer expectations, requests and concerns before moving forward. I also decided that I needed to rethink my timelines. Basically I have a personal deadline in regards to providing support and material for 2320AD. Given that deadline, some of the projects I had wanted to do have now become too ambitious. That is why I asked for customer feedback before moving forward. Basically, I want a complete guide to the setting done before I am, so that if it moves forward from there, it can do so in a consistent fashion.

As for why nothing has moved forward before this? I got a little burnt-out, and the continued delays in producing a final version did nothing to help. As we are reviewing, and in some cases rewriting, some material for the final version, I decided that I would wait until the final version was set in stone, lest I run into further consistency problems.

 

[Qstor2]

We will more than likely be taking submissions for some of these projects. However, we are not yet in a position to do so.

Once we are, that information will be posted here.

Since they're D20 products you might put in a call for submissions on Enworld.org when you're ready.

Mike

 

[Border Reiver]

'Cuz my ass is a comfortable place to be?

Plans are fairly well-advanced. I can turn out a vehicle book in about 2 weeks, and a ship book in comparable time. The real bottleneck is art, and the hold-up on art is financing. And financing is not my department. The tech book is fully outlined, and partially written.

I wanted to revisit customer expectations, requests and concerns before moving forward. I also decided that I needed to rethink my timelines. Basically I have a personal deadline in regards to providing support and material for 2320AD. Given that deadline, some of the projects I had wanted to do have now become too ambitious. That is why I asked for customer feedback before moving forward. Basically, I want a complete guide to the setting done before I am, so that if it moves forward from there, it can do so in a consistent fashion.

As for why nothing has moved forward before this? I got a little burnt-out, and the continued delays in producing a final version did nothing to help. As we are reviewing, and in some cases rewriting, some material for the final version, I decided that I would wait until the final version was set in stone, lest I run into further consistency problems.

That's exactly what I was expecting to here. Looking back I don't think I meant my post to sound quite as abrubt. It would have been quite silly to put out a product without even basic plans to support it in place. The fact that you have so much material ready is extremely encouraging.

What would be quite nice (and I'm out on a limb here) is if some of the supplements could be dual statted for 2300AD as well. Just a thought.

 

[Colin]

What would be quite nice (and I'm out on a limb here) is if some of the supplements could be dual statted for 2300AD as well. Just a thought.

That's been the plan all along. Did I fail to mention it?