To get back to the main issue, my gut tells me ships above a certain volume X should not under any circumstances try to do anything resembling "landing" on a planet. My current presumed value of X is somewhere between 1000 and 2000 tons.Originally posted by Hemdian:
Here's a question that came up in game: can an Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser refuel from a world ocean directly (without using its fuel shuttles)?
On the one hand the image of 60K dtons of ship hovering in the air (over an ocean) in exactly the same way that bricks don't seems wrong. On the other hand the stresses (atmospheric and gravetic) of a gas giant skimming must surely be greater.
Thoughts?
Regards PLST
That may be a little on the small side.My current presumed value of X is somewhere between 1000 and 2000 tons.
I don't dislike Skimming I just think it's probably not possible in the real world. But your right I don't know why we are having this discusion either.Originally posted by robject:
I don't understand why this discussion is even taking place. Dave doesn't like GG skimming. Traveller does like GG skimming. So what?
Originally posted by Tobias:
Well that is the hanging point. I suspect that you are mistaken in this assumption. Yes there are less dense areas of the atmosphere but you need density to make skimming work. You need to colect a lot of hydrogen in a short time while going very fast and fighting the atmosphere and gravity of a very large planet.Gas Giant atmospheres are layered, just like any other atmosphere. In the outer atmosphere, there is low pressure, low friction, and still enough hydrogen to collect over time.
- Tiny, fragile drones of today can actually survive delving into the gas giant itself.But not getting back out that I've seen. And certainly not after picking up a payload of half it's volume in LHYD.
There is a significant difference between dropping a probe and not really caring about where it winds up and sending a ship through to skim. The probe doesn't need to maintain a particular attitude nor does it need to open holes into it's core to suck in hydrogen. Most importantly it doesn't have to wory about getting back out.
Also in aerodynamics smaller is almost always better. Scaling up means more drag and therefore more heat. So again your example does not take into account important aspects of the situation.
Your mileage appears to vary.
In games terms here is one idea.Here's a question that came up in game: can an Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser refuel from a world ocean directly (without using its fuel shuttles)?
Gas Giant skimming is supposed to take several hours at least. I have this slight suspicion that it isn't about delving into a 20-bar-area and opening the pipes (as an aside: If one would truly delve into a high-pressure area, filling the tanks would naturally be rather beneficial to structural integrity.)Originally posted by DaveShayne:
Well that is the hanging point. I suspect that you are mistaken in this assumption. Yes there are less dense areas of the atmosphere but you need density to make skimming work.
That is absolutely irrelevant to the question whether it can survive a given set of condition. If the Galileo-launched probe had by some means been lifted out of the Gas Giant when, say, reaching the 10-bar limit, it would have been intact (indeed, the physical integrity probably held out longer than the transmission instruments as well.) Furthermore, it endured pressures more than 100 times higher than a skimming ship would have to.But not getting back out that I've seen. And certainly not after picking up a payload of half it's volume in LHYD.
Let me repeat. I do not dislike fuel scooping in the game. I just think it's unlikely to be possible in real life.Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
But, hey, YMMV. If you don't like scooping don't use it. It doesn't make my suspenders snap as badly as it does yours.
They didn't mind, they were just photosensitive.Originally posted by Valarian:
"What about refualing from an airless water planitoid like Europa?"
What if Arthur C Clarke is right and the natives object?